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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:07 pm 
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I couldldnt agree more TJ. . Im a bit upset this evening. Old friends in NA bashing Subbers on facebook. Two of witch ive helped in a clinic setting.. It just can never work togather. It just can't. I wish it could.
There are different levels, especially in the begining, but then, as TJ said, you start to see problem s, or worse.

Its a good program for some. After almost 4 years the news broke i was a subber. I still deal with it today and feel resentment. For thoses who haven't really been "in the program " you real don't kmow what it takes to Be in "It".

Im sorry, don't mean to come off as a hater but I do have much of the same experience s as others who ve come here. There are good principles to learn there.. and im grateful for them. But today im clean and thats what matters.

Razor..


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:26 pm 
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Absolutely razor!

Why would anyone think they have the right to judge anyone's recovery but their own? Regardless if it's suboxone, NA or hypnosis for all I care, ya know? I never would have thought that sub would be judged by so many addicts.....non-addicts yes, but ppl just like us telling us that we're not in "real recovery" is just crazy to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:53 pm 
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Hey Razor, is the NA big book similar to the AA one? Meaning, there is a passage in chapter 3 of AA's Big Book that is read at almost every meetings start. It ends with "Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn't done so yet".

There may not be a cure for alcoholism but scientists cured opiate addiction with the creation of Buprenorphine as an ORT drug. If indeed their BB states the same thing then I'd simply reference that particular paragraph.

I did hear of a company that developed a vodka that reduces harm to the liver by over 90%. Unfortunately, that still doesn't cure the drunk part but it may help the Russians and other heavy drinkers to live longer. It's rare for a certified alkie to live past their early 50's unless they have one strong liver. Mine's Irish/German so it can take a beating and keep on workin'. All in jest my friend.

r

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:51 am 
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Maybe someday Rule there will be a revision written in for thoses on DRT in the Basic Text of NA. The Big Book and the Basic Text are as different as the programs themselves. The principles of the programs are the sames as are the 12 steps.
NA 's focus is on all drugs.

"For when we use drugs of any kind or substitute one for the other, we release our addiction all over again"
That sentence is one of several that can lead to judgements Jen. There are good people there too.
The Basic Text first came out in 1982. Now on the sixth addition, the words total abstinence always appears as the backbone of the program.

We dont hear the word cure" much, but as soon I started my reovery on Buprenorphine i felt cured of that life of pill popping and all that goes with it. Thank God.

The time is now for thoses on loug term Buprenorphine treatment to look for ways to have there own type of meetings or get togathers outside the clinic or drs office. We ve done it here in my town.

Sorry, didnt mean to hijack this thread..

Have good Thursday everyone.

Razor :D


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:21 pm 
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I'm actually reading the 6th edition of the NA text right now. You can imagine how I'm responding to it during discussion. I'm going to quote TJ today to give an example of an experienced addict who has done it both ways.

It sickens me that ORT can't just be one of the paths to sobriety, that this value is placed on what people see as sobriety rather than the change in behavior of the addict.

All I can say is that I'm trying to at least open the eyes of my classmates. Most of them just ignore me, however.

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:57 pm 
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The meat of the program is in the first 100/102 pages. On page 100 you will find a paragraph or two about being on medication during an illness.
This has nothing to do with being on MAT. Some pro sub folks wa t to look at that page as proof that taking sub is ok while working the program. Thr fact is its abojt nkt losing Clean time, in times of illness.
The booklet "In Times of Illness",an NA published book, goes into more detail.

It will not surprise me that most in your class will not respond or respect our type of recovery. Why?, because we are still useing by the old Traditional standard s.

Amy, you call me if or when you want to go though or have a question about anything in the Basic Text. Please do..

Ive never done NA without bupe as TJ has. But the thing to remember is that it takes real despairation to Come to believe that Power greater than you will restore you and keep you clean. Whatever the power is, as loug as it isnt drug replacement. My take and what i learned there. And following TJs posts for the last 4 years I Know he has seen it all.



Razor


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:06 pm 
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I respect your experience and TJ's experience so much. You have no idea.

And if I have questions I will definitely call you, Razor. I'm so fortunate to have the resources I have here!

Love you guys! (Too mushy?)

Amy

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