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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:00 pm 
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I have been off of suboxone for almost 1 year after 3 years of being on it. This last year has been a struggle. The acute WD lasted about a month with the PAWS lasting around 6 months. My biggest issues were and are anxiety and sleep. I was put on Neurontin for about 6 months and it was quite effective for both sleep and anxiety. However, its effectiveness has subsided. I have a wonderful (yet stressful) job, awesome wife, in relatively good health, but am struggling with intermittent bats of using the old DOC with anxiety and stress that comes from having to be vigilant against relapsing. I am contemplating going back on suboxone, on a low dose for the next 6 months. My wife does not think its a good idea, but she dose not know the extent of my struggles with the DOC. Anyone have any advise. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:24 pm 
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i would say try everything and anything on this earth before you go back on sub. you went through so much to get off this stuff, are you sure you really want to go back on it? just like the neurontin, the sub is going to work for a while, but you are eventually going to end up in the exact same place if you go back on the sub.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:51 pm 
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I agree with dirty south.. Do you attend meetings? I heard long ago from someone on this site that if not suboxone we will need meetings. I love AA as opposed to NA for some reason but in time of struggles like what you are describing being around people who know what youre going through can really help. This is a tough disease to have and it takes a lifetime of recovery to get thru. Also your sleep will come back. Try to exercise well before bed, this will also help your endorphins get flowing!

Sorry you're having a rough time!

-glen b


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Thanks for the responses. I have not attended meetings and i am not involved in any recovery programs. I do see a shrink, but he tells me to go to meetings and whatnot. This is a real tough decision as I am keenly aware of what i went through to get off the sub, but also remember the stability it afforded me to get my life on track. I actually have been taking a very small dose for about a week and it has helped my sleep and anxiety, but something in my gut tells me not to get fully back on sub. I just want to do whatever i need to do not to go back to using. This disease is very cunning.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Hey Subsavedme,

Before I read your second post here, I was going to tell you to get back on a low dose of Suboxone if you felt a relapse was imminent.....and you did!!! Good going!!!

Now, if you want to get back off Suboxone and get over this hump you're dealing with, you're more than likely going to have to start doing some kind of recovery.

Truth is, recovery is NOT that hard to learn. The hard part is practicing and making a habit of what we learn.....was for me anyway. I knew a lot about recovery and I could quote all the fancy little sayings and whatnot, but I wasn't DOING any of it.

My first piece of advice to you once you learn some recovery is to start with something simple. Practice it until it becomes second nature, then move on. For me, the first thing I really started doing was learning to "center" myself, to keep myself in balance. Once I got good at it and it had become habit, I moved on to the next thing. The recovery techniques you start with and practice are going to be unique to you and your recovery.

If your shrink isn't helping you, then FIRE him and get with an addiction counselor.

I see you suffer from anxiety and lack of sleep....me too. The best thing I found for the anxiety is to cut out caffeine, clean up your diet and EXERCISE. By exercise I don't mean lifting the TV remote every half hour to change channels!!! LOL. For real, go out and do some strenuous exercise, break a good sweat and see how you feel the next day. My exercise routine does wonders for me. Remember, you may have to build up to strenuous exercise. I don't know what kind of shape you're in. When you get to the point where you can sustain fairly heavy activity for about 20 minutes or more, you should notice a big difference in yourself.

Now, with everything I just said, if you think being on Suboxone is your best bet, then by all means do it. Whatever you decide, I support ya 100%.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Can you tell us how often you've been using, and what your DOC is?

This is a really hard one, because your posts are suggesting that you consider yourself somehow "on the edge" of doing damage to your life with your intermittent use of your DOC. If that's really the case then going back on Suboxone should definitely be on the table. But like some other posters have said it's not the only option.

Personally if I were in your situation, I'd explore a combination with meetings of some variety with or without some form of naltrexone therapy. Naltrexone is basically an opioid "blocker", and when it's taken in implant form you basically have a "chip" under your skin preventing you from getting any effect if you choose to get high. This thought alone is enough for most people to not waste their hard earned on drugs. Also, unlike buprenorphine, naltrexone isn't dependence forming. It has no agonist effect. Considering you're on-the-edge of successful long term recovery, and want to stop yourself from these occasional relapses, naltrexone may be enough of a circuit breaker to get you on a path of long term abstinence. However, it also comes with risks. If you choose to use after the implant wears off, naltrexone makes you have zero tolerance to opioids. You become very vulnerable to overdose. I lost a close friend this way recently.

The meetings don't have to be 12-step based. I'd experiment with 12-steps, SMART recovery (in many ways the opposite of the 12-steps), 1 on 1 drug & alcohol counselling etc. Find whatever works best for you, and don't listen to anyone say "our way is the only way to get clean" because it's a bunch of baloney. Take what you need and leave the rest.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:02 am 
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Romeo, i appreciate your response and ironically working out used to be my biggest stress reliever, before i found Percocet. As a result of the suboxone use, my testosterone levels dropped dramatically. I think this is where the biggest problem for me is as it is the nexus for all of my symptoms. Low sex drive leads to low self esteem which leads to anxiety and then sleep suffers. its a vicious cycle. I used to play football and basketball regularly and was very athletic. I just don't have the gusto to get up and do it. I have a very competitive job, just got married and thinking about having our first child. I need to get my test levels again and get that under control so i can work out and feel human again. TeeJay, I was thinking of going the Naltrexone root as well, but was told that getting on a low dose of suboxone would be a better option because of the issues you mentioned with overdose. My DOC is oxycodone and I can fight off the cravings most of the time. Its the stress of having to be on high alert that adds to the stress. Anyways, thanks for the advise guys. I really appreciate the time you guys take to help out.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Start pumping iron again Subsavedme, it should help your testosterone.

You said something about having a very competitive job, just got married, thinking about having a kid and that you don't have the gusto to get going. Welcome to life, Bud.

You can sit back and complain or you can do something about it.....the choice is yours. Now drop and give me 20!!! :wink:

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 Post subject: just do it! lol
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:48 pm 
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A while ago, after all the years of posts here about how exercise is good for tappers and stopping, I got a cheap old (but decent) 80's panasonic 10 speed road bike. i rode it once and it just sat around. but then i kept thinking about how exercise gets the natural endorphins flowing (repeated over and over on this forum, must be a reason :) so i started riding a little bit. few miles here and there. eventually it became addicting and now i go every day. i try to take a day off but i don't even want to. its my 'me time' now. i put on my earbuds and go 15 miles, 20 miles depending on how much time i have. i've noticed i feel a lot better and i am in good shape for the first time since i was 12. i always was like "yeah yeah guys surrrre i'll exercise when i get down low in my taper" but i'm so glad i gave it a chance. granted i live in south florida so im pretty lucky right now but if i was back in nyc i would invest in a stationary trainer. heck, i could watch tv while i ride, even :)

feel better, subsavedme!

-gb


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:12 pm 
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A note of caution:
I went back on a "low dose" of Sub to avert cravings like you did. (the official story is that I went back on Sub after a relapse. It's true that I did relapse, but I had over 2 months totally clean before I started up the Sub again, after someone I knew in "recovery" picked up a script for 300 Roxy's...but I digress)

The point is, I promised myself I would just do it short term and never exceed 2 mg. Well, now it's 7 months later and I'm on 12mg, and I know I have to go through the whole detox thing again. Yes, Sub is a great tool for keeping us away from our DOC. But trying to control our use at very low doses is like trying to control our use of full agonists. I can't tell you what is best for you, I'm just pointing out some of the pitfalls.

Also, being off of Sub and staying clean is almost impossible without the help of a 12-step program or at least some kind of support group.
Good luck,
Lilly


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