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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Greetings all! I'd like to share my sub w/d experience with you guys. I'm so glad this site exists with positive people because I've read so many poisonous posts on other sites. December of this year would be 7 years on bupe. I took my last 0.1mg dose yesterday at 10:20AM after tapering down from about 4mg in three to four weeks. The taper was exceptionally easy since I had been doing it over and over for years (tapering down and jumping back up). I feel jittery today, runny nose, achy shins, but that's about it. Not too bad so far. I'll post again later with the progress or lack thereof =P


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Hi, since you tapered down so low maybe you will be lucky and have little withdrawals. Congrats on getting to such a low dose! I wish you all the best! Hang In there! Keep us updated!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:58 pm 
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Thank you! Alright, I actually feel BETTER now than I did this morning. I ate some Greek Yogurt with Granola and went for a walk around the block. W/d's are yawning, achy legs, a couple sneezes, and running to the bathroom about every 30mins to an hour. The jitters have gone for some reason, maybe I just needed to eat something. So far so good, for now. I'm guessing the storm has yet to come.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:31 pm 
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Like I said earlier It may not be too bad since you got to such a low dose before jumping off. I jumped off 2 to 3 and some days 4 mg. So it took 5 days before full wds peaked, but I felt awful for all four days before it got really bad for me. Then somewhere around day 17 or 18 I started feeling a little better and I am still just pushing on along here on day 25. I am able to function but have no motivation. I have to make myself do things and some days my stomach messes with me and some days it doesn't at this point. Everyone told me Hot baths, music, and exercise helps and it really does. Like I said I just have to make myself do things. I still have a cold sweat here and there, under my arms pits lol yuck right. But it has gotten better I just have to be patient and eventually I will get my Motivation back and the rest of these wds will leave me alone I hope sooner rather than later. My dose was higher when I jumped so I have no idea how your wds will be plus no two people are the same no matter what dose or length of time they used suboxone. It depends on a lot of things. I believe you will do Great and don't worry yourself too much about when if and how bad it may get because it may not get any worse than it is right now and you may get better really fast. If you don't do not get discouraged. Just keep on pushing through and time will make things easier!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:08 pm 
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I think you should be okay. Although everybody's experience is different, I also jumped from a low dose almost two weeks ago and I've been doing well. I was also on bupe for a long time( 6 years) and was fortunate that I haven't had a terrible wd experience so far. The first few days were a little tough, mostly because I think I was feeling bad for myself and had little motivation to do much of anything. My biggest complaints are the sleep issues and the uncomfortableness of the sweats. I'm sure if you have these little troubles like I've had you'll be glad you tapered like you did. I hope things go well and please keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:10 pm 
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Well if you believe in tapering then the taper you did was not even a taper at all. I mean 4mg to 0 in 3-4 weeks? that's basically jumping off from 3mg cold turkey (though am still an advocate of CT for short term users). You being on bup for 7 years and just tapering for few weeks from 4mg to 0.25 isn't really going to make much difference had you jumped from 3mg or 2mg.

For hardcore tapers and tapering advocates it's not just about how low you get but also how slow you go.

For most on bup for 2 years and over it would have taken at least 6 months to go from 4mg to 0. Do not forget about the stacking half life, this means that the half life covers you when you taper, and you do not really feel the affects until you get off bup for 3 weeks or so.

I know someone who was on bup for 7 years and tapered to 0.25 in 3 months and guess what? had PAWS for 4 years, he pretty much tried everything to help but nothing gave, so am just saying be prepared for symptoms creeping up later on..It's not the pshycal acute withdrawals that are much of a problem but the next year o 2 (PAWS) which can take people out, so please research and read experiences, so you may be informed and not go crazy assuming something is up with you, just remember it was the time you was on bup.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:20 am 
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What Icarus stated is the reason that I keep on keeping on. Most would probably look from the outside, into my situation and say that I'm addicted to the Suboxone...while that's quite frankly...a blunt truth....I'm also addicted to the lifestyle that I have been able to accomplish while on Suboxone, and quite happy knowing that if I have a moment of weakness...or if I get around someone with the wrong pills...I could foray into that world again without an inkling of inner thought stopping me...

Just 3 weeks ago we were on the beach in Dauphin Island..which is mighty damn close to where my mom lives. Over the past 7 years since my mom left the area I live in, 5 hours from Dauphin Island...she has called me up on many pill-driven rampages...bitched at me for even being ON suboxone...said Im doing the same shit that she's doing, bragged to me once about banging dilaudid...eat pills like you wouldn't believe....
And while she was near me, here where I live? She introduced me to the pills in general. She also introduced me to the guy that I could buy ALL I WANTED from...so my dealer was via my mom.. Before she intro'd me to him, I would give her money and she would go buy them. Finally she got to thieving them from me, and just told me where he lived. So I started making my own trips to the dealer.
Then she got caught with meth and was told to leave this town or face imprisonment. So she moved south...and basically did the same thing that she was doing here, except she found some old man who sold pills that felt pity, and allowed her to live with him & his wife. His wife passed away last year, and my mom still lives with him (84 year-old man...my mom is 53). She is an addict that lives with her dealer..plain and simple. I don't wanna think about what she does to get pills from him since she has no job, no income, and sits home all the time....
But at any rate, I thought I would give my mom a 'chance' while we were there on vacation. A chance to see my kids...a chance to see me in a non-high state..she hasn't known that side of me since my teenage years (I'm 34). But..the addict in my mom couldn't do it ...she just couldn't allow our trip to go well...she HAD to do something that was par for the course with her...
She came to see us as we came onto the island our first day (or late evening I should say)...and only stayed a little bit. "I'll be back early tomorrow" was the last I heard from her that day. The next day, it was after 12pm when she FINALLY decided to show up. We weren't waiting around on her by no means..but she had told me it would be that morning...yeah right.
She also had some guy with her...who had brought alcohol in his own little styrofoam cup...and when she left that night...she asked me to tell the old man that she was at the beach if he called...she wanted me to lie for her and say she was with me..so she could go home with this "guy" she had brought over....
Told me she would come back at 7am the following morning to say bye to us, as our checkout was 10am. Complained about us getting up so early and leaving...but said she would be there at that time anyway...
we got up...went about our day, checking out of the house we rented just as planned. I never heard from her, and didn't call/text her either. It was 2pm before she finally decided to call me and start her "story"...we were nearly home (of the 5 hour drive, we were already 3 hours into it)....
She started with "I'm sorry"....and continued on with some rant about "I'm was doing something for the Drug Task Force yesterday, that's why you didn't hear from me".....and built-up this HUGE lie about how she was taking someone down that "deserved it"....
I finally heard enough and got pissed. I actually shouldn't have did that in the car while I was driving home...we had taken our preacher's granddaughter on the trip with us...so poor Anna got to hear me ranting like a fool at my mom on the phone...but I told her BULLSHIT. I told her that if she was really clean...and only took her pills that she was prescribed (which she told me several times were lortabs, I think hinting actually that she had some if I had asked ....ya know?)...that she wouldn't want to be around anyone doing that shit...not even to take someone down. She wouldn't want NO PART of that lifestyle, not even to take someone down. I told her that she got caught and worked a deal...and that I wished her the best of luck, but not to call me telling me about how things were going. I didn't want to hear it. And I proceeded to piss her off so badly that she hung up on me. This is what I've dealt with since I got married at age 19....my mom, the bad seed of the family...and her shenanigans. I even had to take custody of my sister when I was 24...because my mom got caught with meth. I was actually doing well and not actively in addiction during that period of 3-4 years..but soon as the court battle was over and we relinquished custody to some family who wanted my sister's monthly money...(her daddy was retired USMC and had passed away when my sister was 5)...that brought on the addict in me again from --my excuse here ---all the stress we dealt with.

But that's a hint at a person who's dealt with an addict, plus been an addict. Will my mom ever be a "mom" figure in my life?? I doubt it, seriously. My dad..I met him when I was 25..he's a GREAT guy. And I love him dearly...I call him my dad. I call my mom by her first name. She gave me up for adoption when I was 3...and I don't hold that against her..but she doesn't try to earn any respect from me either as a parent. My dad loves me and my kids...and we all love him. He's a hard-working great guy...and he don't put up with no bullshit. I keep hoping....one day my mom will find inner peace, and defeat the demons that she has that keep her from wanting to deal with reality...but that hope is dwindling as I age...and I have told my wife that the family will expect me to make arrangements when she dies..and I really would rather not...cold-hearted? maybe....but I don't want to even be a part of her life when she does the shit that she does...like the example I just told about in the above story.


Sorry for the long post. I could really write a damn book...I've seen and been through SO much..it would drive a normal person crazy. A crazy person..it would turn them into .....me I guess.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:56 am 
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Indeed, Icarus. I'm still skeptical as to how this will turn out but I gotta give it a try. It's hard for me to do a long, drawn out taper since I've always been an "all-or-nothing" type of guy. It's now approaching 48 hours since my last dose and I feel decent but it's been no picnic so far. Sleep was choppy last night, sweats, chills, tension, constantly running to the bathroom and such. I'll just have to wait and see how this turns out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Hey Faeked,

Welcome to the forum!!

Your taper was on the fast side, but it was not in vain. Actually, for an all or nothing person to have tapered like you did is pretty good.

The next few days will more than likely reveal how bad your wd is going to get. If you're not feeling too yucky at 48 hours (where you are now), you may have tapered low enough to avoid and heavy wd's.

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 Post subject: Day 3
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:00 am 
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Okay! It's been almost 72 hours now since my last dose and things are not bad, not bad at all. Sleep sucks and I get chills and diarrhea but man if this is as bad as it gets then this is cake! I do realize that there's much that lies ahead, a long road of re-acquiring myself, but I'm totally prepared for that. Thank you all for your feedback and I'll keep y'all posted!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:41 pm 
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I LOVE your avatar!!!

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 Post subject: Day 4
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:39 am 
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New day, day 4! Chills/sweats have lessened, I am yawning a bit less though sneezing a bit more and sleep comes in 1-2 hour sessions. I'm taking Clonidine at night along with 5-HTP for sleep but it's still really hard to get comfortable. Energy levels are still decent which blows my mind. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm jumping up and down with glee but I was imaging far worse. I thought I would totally be dragging ass all day but it hasn't been like that, just slight bouts of fatigue throughout the day. Thank you all for your positivity! 93 hours removed :D
BTW, Thanks Amy, I couldn't resist when I came across that goofy cat!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:08 am 
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It looks like the taper you did was enough to keep you out of any serious wd, good job!!

One of the most important parts of minimizing your wd symptoms is to keep your mind active. Keeping your body active also helps quite a bit.

Having your sleep happen in 1 - 2 hour sessions is normal too, that'll improve in time.

Keep hanging in there!!

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 Post subject: Day 12
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:46 am 
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Well it seems as though I'm in the post-acute stage now. I've been sleeping about 5-6 hours a night usually only waking once. I've started jogging in the morning though I'm so out of shape I can only make it about a half mile right now but that will build over time. The days seem longer and time moves slower especially at work. It seems like I'm always antsy to do something else instead of the task at hand. This I believe is the beginning of the long stretch of gradually coming back to normal. I should consider myself lucky though, sounds like many of you have had a much harder time!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Congratulations on starting jogging, that's great to hear!! Exercise is a fantastic way to get those endorphins pumping and to aid in the healing process.

Being antsy to do something other than the task at hand has happened to many of us after the acute wd stage passes. Inability to concentrate is a classic symptom of PAWS. Continue being patient with yourself.

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 Post subject: Day 14
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Still truckin'. Not too much to report though, sleep is getting better and better. I started taking DLPA along with the 5-HTP and a huge multivitamin and I believe that is helping me quite a bit. Though I'm in good spirits I still feel a bit off, not too bad though. Sweats have gone down, chills are almost completely gone, and energy is pretty decent. I just have to find ways to keep myself busy to subdue the anxiety. Thanks to you all for your support!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:05 pm 
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Hi feak like you Ive been on the subs for 7 years too, but am tapering down much as possible before I jump, in the hope it will at least minimize withdrawals and the PAWS. Now I am reading tapering may not do this, I really hope I am better off jumping from a very small dose. I cannot believe it took you couple of weeks to go from 4mg to 0, it's taken me almost a year to go from 2mg to 0.65/0.5. I wanted to take this long in the hope it will eliminate the half life saturated in my receptors from being on subs for 7 years, am I right? I do not know, but it's worth to have a shot at. What is an extra few months to taper further after taking sub for 7 years? that is the way I am looking at it. I have read stories which vary from each individual, some struggle after tapering down yet some complain of no withdrawals.

I do not know if anybody can verify this but I have read 1 or 2 posts which advise to stay on 0.2mg for 2 months and then jump, this is to eliminate much half life as possible, so to make it less troublesome in the long run. My first plan was to take 0.25mg for 2 weeks, then 0.125 for a week, then jump, but I do not know if I am better off staying on the last 2 doses for couple of months to adjust to having short and less sub in my receptors.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:48 pm 
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I tapered, jumped, lasted for around 10 months and then finally went back on.

This was because I couldn't take the unmotivated lethargic depression that took over my life. I couldn't do it. Also. I went back to drugs after 8 months and was afraid of what was to come. I drank and smoked pot and eventually starter dope again... Scary. But.. Many addicts don't realize how much they are effected by drinking or smoking weed mentally, emotionally, and physically. It takes its toll. No matter how miniscule you may think those two drugs are... They are still drugs and still cause negative effects on your life. This is why when someone in suboxone just stops illegal opiates and keeps smoking weed and drinking and stuff complains of issues "due to suboxone"... I feel no mercy. It's not suboxone. It's living in active use. Idk. It's important to remember and take a look at.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:18 pm 
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So your lethargic depression 10 months was down to suboxone? there are several other people who felt very well at 10 months if not sooner after stopping the subs. Am guessing it depends on a lot of other factors. I know I have age on my side and my health as well as pshycal exercise daily, so whether I will be in the same situation as you come 10 months is I think subjective. Having said that I have read a few stories of people who still feel terrible 2 year after stopping the subs, scary thought.. Surely if everybody felt like that at 10 months then indeed you can blame it all on the suboxone, but many other people do recover by that stage. My doctor said recovery depends a lot on yourself and your heart as well other factors. I also had someone tell me if you cannot recover at 10 months then you may never recover at all because some people have weaker receptors then others, and anything like suboxone can affect it in a negative way, I am not sure of this is true or not, but it is something to digest and think about, not over-thinking about it though as it can drive you insane. What about treatments like Ibogaine I keep reading and hearing about? anybody looked into that? it is allegedly meant to cure depression from PAWS or all PAWS. I don't know I may look into this subject deeper and put it away as an option if things do not work out too well for me.

I don't know but I keep thinking it's logical that the lower you go on suboxone the less subs you have in your system, I think it really depends on how you get to your last dose and how long you stay there, am thinking of staying on 0.25 for 2 months and then go down to 0.125 for maybe 2 weeks or a month, this is what I was advised by 2 people who did this method and said they had no PAWS to speak of let alone withdrawals. I think long term sub users need to wait on 0.25mg to let their receptors adjust, I do know it takes time for the half life to come down a level, so to me it makes sense to stay on the last dosages for a while for it to do that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Well. Like you said... You pretty much answered your own question.

Everyone is different no matter what you do.

I'm just tired of the posts about feeling shitty after jumping and they are smoking weed and drinking all the while... But it's still all the suboxone.

I know I Shouldve done more with recovery. Like meetings and such. I had to learn that the hard way.

But. This stuff is not easy by any stretch of the word.

What do you plan on doing for recovery after you are off suboxone?


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