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 Post subject: Day 16
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:35 am 
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Sleep is coming back quick-like! I couldn't believe it but I slept 8 hours last night, well 6 and 1 and 1 but it totaled 8 =). Still going, every day is a little better than the last, more or less. I still have this damn tingly feeling on top of my head though, I'm hoping it will go away soon (and the fogginess, of course). Though they come in spurts, anxiety and lack of motivation still plague me but I am pushing through as best I can. We'll see what's in store in the days to come...

Empire - Concurring with the others, I believe the longer you stay on a minimal dose the better off you'll be. 0.25mg or lower for a month or two is a good spot to be to minimize acute/post acute w/d. I was impatient and did my taper pretty quickly and though I didn't have much in the way of acute w/d I'm feeling the PAWS right now but logically I would imagine they can be mostly avoided with a proper drawn-out taper. If you have the patience to take your time then I'd say stay at a tiny dose for a while. I'm no expert, just sayin' :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:06 am 
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Its so hard to say. I hovered at .25 for a month and still feel the PAWS. I think you get that ride if have been on any opiate for some time.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:05 pm 
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You said you tapered from 4 mg to .1 mg in 3-4 weeks, and I was wondering, do you by chance remember a rough timeline of your taper? Like, 3 mg for 3-5 days, then 2mg for 2 days, then 1 mg for a week, you know something like that? I'm curious because your experience is really similar to what I expect and usually undergo when I jump (but I've never lasted more than 5-6 days).

Keep truckin, you're doing great, and if you have gotten through the last 2 weeks, you will definitely get through the next 2! From reading stuff on here, it seems like after a month or two, most people say they are happier and have more energy and they are glad that they toughed it out, so keep up the great work and remember that thing will get better soon! The last time I jumped I had just started watching the show the Trailer Park Boys. All the episodes are on Youtube. If you have not seen the show before, I recommend that. When I would be at work, I would just tell myself, Soon I will be home laying down with the heating pad (for RLS) watching Trailer Park Boys. It got me through the day. And the show always made me laugh. Whenever I hear the theme song, I get happy remembering how miserable I felt sitting in my computer chair, but happier than ever because I had accomplished my taper. Something I have found is that although you might feel miserable now, in a few months you will see things (like the trailer park boys theme song) that remind you of when you jumped, and these things will always put a smile on your face and take you back to a happy place. It is weird, but your jump could actually be remembered as one of the best moments of your life (I don't know how, and I know it sounds like hippy shit, but just remember that and see if it comes true).


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:34 pm 
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If I remember correctly it went something like this: 4, 4, 4, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 2.5, 2.5, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1.5, 1.2, 1, 1, 0.75, 0.5, 0.4, 0.3, 0.25, 0.2, 0.15, 0.15, 0.1, 0.07ish. So for almost 2 weeks I was at 1mg or less. But a couple months before this I did the same thing but jumped back up again in dose. It's really been a roller-coaster ride of dosing ever since I started on this stuff.
I hear ya about the memories of the bad becoming good, I remember times of peril fondly and the first week off of sub I was off of work and stayed home in case things got bad but they never really did. I was feeling so lazy and did jack shit but for some reason it was kinda fun. I already have very fond memories of that week though it was only a little over a week ago. I'm sure once I'm at full capacity I'll be even happier of these times looking back. It seems it's always the moments of pain and suffering we remember the most. We remember them fondly because we gain strength and wisdom from them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:59 pm 
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I must add that I am very intrigued by the taper you did but I also do not agree with it. If someone started sub today and took 4mg it will take around 6 months on average for them to actually feel the full effects, it did with me anyhow, that is why I believe that kind of a taper you did faeked is way too fast to decrease the sub out of your system. If it can takes several months or even years to feel the full effects of sub then in my opinion it will take a while yet to taper off.

When you start sub you feel very energetic, feel good, feel like this is the answer to your cravings and drug problems, this carries on for a certain time, from 6 months to couple of years, that is why to do a quick taper is not really the way to go because you will have substantial amount of half life to contend with, during that time people can suffer PAWS, this is the way I look at it certainly. When I have done tapers in the past I have never felt any physical withdrawals, I do not think many feel any issues at all going from something like 8mg to 4mg or 4mg to 0 in short space of time, the sub has a long half life as we all know, and this is why we do not feel much symptoms tapering quickly, but it can come back to bite us months down the road.

In my opinion its very logical to take a while to taper off sub, I have also been on subs for 7 years and I just know in my heart if I was to jump now or had I jumped cold turkey I would feel weird and uncomfortable for a very long time. Think about it our receptors cannot suddenly accept and handle reality pressure, life issues and with suddenly having no subs in our brain after a long stay on it, this is why I firmly believe tapering has to have benefits and why it is wise to let your receptors adjust and unwork the saturated half lifes that we accumulated over the years.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Subs isn't like morphine or other opiates with short half life, where if you taper off or jump cold turkey the symptoms can disseapr in a matter of few weeks, with subs and its long half life it will take a lot of time to accumulate and to feel the accumulation, that is why I believe tapering for a while yet has to be done in order to decrease the half life. It might feel uncomfortable but you will still be able to function, you will not be sick, and whatever symptoms and issues you do have you would have ridden them out during a taper..I would rather face these symptoms during a taper rather then post-jump because post-jump will be worse, you won't have any sub to function and your receptors will be all confused, so I rather face some problems now as it will tell me am healing, and will know am getting rid of the symptoms now while it's doable rather then when I jump which may be too uncomfortable, for me anyways.

I have spoken to other people who did said their withdrawals did not reach full force until 2 weeks after stopping the subs, this is when they either did a few week taper or jumped off cold turkey, then they had to face these symptoms for several months, even though they may have been mild the fact that their receptors all of a sudden had to adjust after years of accumulating subs just made it very uncomfortable for them, this is PAWS from what I understand. So I do not want to take the risk of having long PAWS or long mild acute withdrawals creeping up on me a month or 2 after stopping subs, hence why I am taking my time tapering, I just know there have to be some benefits towards tapering, it just does not make sense for me that I feel good in short space of time after long term sub use if I did a very short taper, it took me couple of years to feel the full effects of 2mg, I could feel it was building up in my receptors, so to suddenly quit or do a short taper in my eyes would be dangerous in the long run for me, or at the last very uncomfortable.

Maybe we do all feel withdrawals no matter what dose we jump off or how we taper, but I do think withdrawals will be shorter for those who taper off slowly, and PAWS will be less to. It just makes sense to me and I cannot find no other explanation, this is not to say I am right, I am merely going by my experience and assumptions and opinions, you can say it's hope too.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Well I believe this marks three weeks and besides the copious amounts of sweat under the pits, foggy head, yawns and sneezes I'm doing remarkably well! Energy spiked yesterday and today is even better. I'm guessing the jogging in the morning is doing wonders because since I started doing that I've noticed huge improvements every couple of days. Emotions are leveling out and my heartbeat has dropped below 100bpm! Things are good, I'm stoked!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:39 am 
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It's been over 30 days now and the "honeymoon period" has passed where life is just "normal" now and the excitement of stopping has faded. Energy is up and down, some days I'll be manic and others I'll be lethargic. I definitely prefer the manic days though. Appetite is exceptional, I can't stop eating. Sleep is good, mood is good, excepting some irritability and impatience but no depression which is great. Head is still cloudy as shit. I'm thinking it will be that way for a while because something got really messed up in my head after the first 3 years on sub. Like something "popped" and my head fogged up overnight, literally. I miss having a clear head. I guess it takes a while to "re-wire". All-in-all things are pretty good, just lingering effects that seem to take forever.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:18 am 
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Congratulations on the 30+ days clean, Faeked. That's a huge accomplishment and you should be very proud of yourself. It helps provide me with the motivation to get finished with my own taper and get off the Suboxone. I'm down to 1.75mg and will reduce again tomorrow morning. I was on 24mgs for almost 3 years and it feels great to be on such a low dose right now.

Anyway your an inspiration to me and I hope you keep providing updates. Thanks for your post and have a great day!

Karen
xoxo


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Thanks for the update, faeked.

Congratulations on 30 days, that's super!!

So, the pink cloud period has ended, eh.....welcome back to reality, dude. This period of adjustment you're about to go through, while not as intense as acute wd, still bites. It tends to last a little while and can get to the point where it wears ya down. Some call it PAWS, some call it learning to live your life without drugs, whatever you call it, it's a grind.

If you haven't already, now would be a good time to get some recovery knowledge and practice in. A LOT of addicts end up slipping up during this phase you're in now.

Take care, man.

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Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Congrats on 30 days!!

Romeo pretty much took the words out of my mouth.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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