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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:53 am 
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I never got REAL treatment, I just started on Sub because it gave me a great buzz. So I continued that for 5 five years like a fool... My doctor won't see me anymore and I have 58 x 8mg strips left.

Now I know I should be tapering, but I just can't! That little buzz has been a part of my routine for nearly 1/5th of my life! It gives me energy if I feel fatigued, makes me feel better if I'm sick, calms me down at the end of the day, relaxes me... I don't use any other substances or have any hobbies, its the ONLY thing in my life that gives me any "warmth." I just CANNOT stop taking ~3mg at a time about 5 times a day.

I forsee that I'll end up running out at my 12-15mg a day level and the withdrawals/PAWS will hit me so badly that I'll put a bullet in my brain. Or get addicted to benzos again trying to find relief. My insurance covers NO rehab, no IOP, no residential, no nothing.

I'm very, very, very scared about this PAWS thing. That I won't be happy or have energy for 18 months or longer. I don't have it in me to do that. My life would completely fall apart.

I have my mother, but that's all the support I have. I'm a loner who doesn't keep friends, and I have all these complexes and paranoias about women, so I'm unable to have the love and compassion from a relationship.

Am I totally screwed? What are my options? Should I just end it now?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:56 am 
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@FiveYearsOnSubox,

Hello my friend, take a deep breath, if you want read my journey through my addictions. You have a lot to live for. Fear is understandable but this is really do able. I really feel for you. I will be here for you as many other great people on this forum are all here to help you.

I find it hard to believe your doctor. If he won't give you a script anymore he should at least help you with your taper. Are there any other programs in your area that you can try? If your not ready to get off Subs you need to find another doc, or sit down with your present one and put it all on the table. No one should be able to force you stop this program you are on until you are ready.


Tapering down at a slow rate will make the jump much easier. You said you have 58 - 8mg strips left. From my experience with Subs, I was taking 24mg a day for 4 - 5 years. I thought it was impossible to taper as I couldn't do it when I was on 200mg of methadone.

After switching to Suboxone, that was murder, I maintained that dose (24mg) for the majority of the time. I just started tapering 4 months ago, I think. It could have been less, I'm foggy on the time period. I honestly believed it would be impossible to lower my dose. But you can, I did. I was scared as shit. You can do it if you want. Think positive. I'm all alone doing this. Well I have a few beautiful friends I met here helping along the way to help me get through the hard times.

This was my experience of tapering, not the best way but I had a small timetable to get ready to jump.

I thought it would be impossible. But I found that it wasn't that hard until I got to 2mg a day. Honestly at the beginning I went from 24 to 16mg. Stayed there for a few weeks. Didn't really notice a difference, at least not enough to go back to 24mg. From there I went to 12mg, a few weeks later 8mg. Then 6, 4 ,did a big jump to 2mg. Very minor WD for a few days or more. Nothing to write home about. The worst for me was jumping from 2 - 1mg. Spent about 3 weeks at that dose with minor WD. I finally jumped from there. I'm at either day 4 or 5. Thats another story.

Now, once you get to a lower dose, say 2-4mg, you should taper at about 10 - 25%. until you get to a level you feel comfortable to jump. The lower you can get the easier your recovery should be.



There was no one more fearful of jumping off this stuff than me. Your life is worth it. I know it's hard but stay positive. If you put your mind to it I know you can do it.

I will be with you every day if you want, you have a friend here who care about you, I've been where you are right now. Please keep in touch.

Other people on this site will be here to help you also. Everyone here is or has gone through what you are going through.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:46 am 
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Hi 5yrs,

Here is the bottome line my friend. You are still in active addiction. You have been using a drug that most of us here are using to keep our addiction in remission in a way that it was never intended to be used.

The way you are feeling right now is perfectly understandable, and I know that you are scared to death. BUT, you would be well served to see this for what it is. This is your chance to begin to get better!

I'm really not sure what your options are. But, you really need to look at where you are at honestly and realize that the reason you are so angry is the same reason alot of us would have been angry if someone had taken our Heroin or pills away from us. You have to get honest about this situation if you are going to get through it.

Please step back and look at this, calm down, and understand that YOU ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO BEAT THIS! It's not going to be easy, but it is doable.

I don't often say this, but I think this situation warrents it. I really think that you would be better served, because of your particular situation, at a different forum. There is a forum called sub-sux, despite the fact that they have very different views about suboxone treatment than us, they have alot of very caring members who will help you fight this!

I'm not saying that because I want you to leave this forum. I only think that they will be better equipped to hear out your issues and be able to support you. You are welcome to stay here with us and we will do our best to support you, but I would ask that you go to the main page and look over our rules one more time. If you can abide by them then you are welcome to stay.

Good luck, I really hope you find some help.

Qhorsegal2

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:16 am 
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Well give me a call when the problems with buprenorphine start to surface.

" One thing he did was to make a point of not taking bupe for longer than three weeks, on the advice of his detox doctor. “Or else I’d be dealing with a whole different problem,” he says.

“I’ve seen what long-term Suboxone does,” says Dr. Scanlan, who switched his specialty to psychiatry in order to help other addicts kick prescription drugs. “People come in with endocrine problems—thyroid dysfunction, low testosterone,” which kills sex drive, “and hair loss. Tooth loss with Suboxone,” which is orange-flavored and is usually dissolved under the tongue. "

Please everyone, just be aware of these things.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:35 am 
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we actually have an entire thread here about Dr. scanlan's idea about buprenorphine. we are not uninformed. we have made or decision.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:45 pm 
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The more posts I read here, the more it sounds like a drug-cult. Feel free to delete my account, I'll be going over to SubSux.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:59 pm 
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That actually really sounds like a great idea!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:06 pm 
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I'm sorry, it's come to that! this place could have been a great source of support and comfort to yohu as it has been for many others, including those who were unhappy with their Suboxone experience as you have been. even though, you weren't in treatment with it, but we're in fact abusing it. perhaps, though, if all you wanted to do was argue every thing said to you than that would bethe m ost appropriate forum for you, so long as you get the help you need. if all you say is true about the shape you're currently in, sounds to me like you are dying.... not from bupe, but from end stage ADDICTION! I hope you find the support you need to save your life.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:39 pm 
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That's the smartest thing you have said since you got here 5.

@everyone else, I agree, this guy is in trouble and in desperate need of help. But, this is not the right place for him to get it. He is too heated about his biased feelings toward suboxone.

Sub-sux is actually a good place for someone like him to go. Although I don't agree with what most of them believe about suboxone, I think it is a good, supportive website that can be of great help to people that have anger toward their suboxone treatment.

To our members, let's let this thread die a peaceful death, ok? :P

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:51 pm 
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FiveYearsOnSubox wrote:
The more posts I read here, the more it sounds like a drug-cult. Feel free to delete my account, I'll be going over to SubSux.


Should be an easy transition since you've been a member of SubSux.com (SubArizona) since last year.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:09 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I love you Travis!

That's too funny, Now we're a cult! Bwahahahaha, beware of the evil cult leader Dr. Junig. He has us all brainwashed!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:23 pm 
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lizzieshug2013 wrote:
I'm sorry, it's come to that! this place could have been a great source of support and comfort to yohu as it has been for many others, including those who were unhappy with their Suboxone experience as you have been. even though, you weren't in treatment with it, but we're in fact abusing it. perhaps, though, if all you wanted to do was argue every thing said to you than that would bethe m ost appropriate forum for you, so long as you get the help you need. if all you say is true about the shape you're currently in, sounds to me like you are dying.... not from bupe, but from end stage ADDICTION! I hope you find the support you need to save your life.



Why do people keep saying I was abusing it?? I got it from the doctors for 5 years! I took LESS than they prescribed me! about 75% less!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:43 pm 
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FiveYearsOnSubox wrote:
I never got REAL treatment, I just started on Sub because it gave me a great buzz. So I continued that for 5 five years like a fool... My doctor won't see me anymore and I have 58 x 8mg strips left.

Now I know I should be tapering, but I just can't! That little buzz has been a part of my routine for nearly 1/5th of my life! It gives me energy if I feel fatigued, makes me feel better if I'm sick, calms me down at the end of the day, relaxes me... I don't use any other substances or have any hobbies, its the ONLY thing in my life that gives me any "warmth." I just CANNOT stop taking ~3mg at a time about 5 times a day.

I forsee that I'll end up running out at my 12-15mg a day level and the withdrawals/PAWS will hit me so badly that I'll put a bullet in my brain. Or get addicted to benzos again trying to find relief. My insurance covers NO rehab, no IOP, no residential, no nothing.

]



This is where you admitted to abusing it. You have contradicted yourself several times here. In your very first post above you said you were using 3mg at a time, 5x a day. That is 15mg per day my friend. Then you again state you use anywhere from 12-15mg per day.
In another post you lied and said you were taking much less than that.

How much are you prescribed per day? Even if you aren't taking more than prescribed, the way you choose to take it is obviously your way of seeking a buzz from it.

There is no point in arguing about this any more. You have admitted that the only reason you came to this site is to "Warn Us"....well, consider us warned. You can go now.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:48 pm 
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qhorsegal2 wrote:
FiveYearsOnSubox wrote:
I never got REAL treatment, I just started on Sub because it gave me a great buzz. So I continued that for 5 five years like a fool... My doctor won't see me anymore and I have 58 x 8mg strips left.

Now I know I should be tapering, but I just can't! That little buzz has been a part of my routine for nearly 1/5th of my life! It gives me energy if I feel fatigued, makes me feel better if I'm sick, calms me down at the end of the day, relaxes me... I don't use any other substances or have any hobbies, its the ONLY thing in my life that gives me any "warmth." I just CANNOT stop taking ~3mg at a time about 5 times a day.

I forsee that I'll end up running out at my 12-15mg a day level and the withdrawals/PAWS will hit me so badly that I'll put a bullet in my brain. Or get addicted to benzos again trying to find relief. My insurance covers NO rehab, no IOP, no residential, no nothing.

]



This is where you admitted to abusing it. You have contradicted yourself several times here. In your very first post above you said you were using 3mg at a time, 5x a day. That is 15mg per day my friend. Then you again state you use anywhere from 12-15mg per day.
In another post you lied and said you were taking much less than that.

How much are you prescribed per day? Even if you aren't taking more than prescribed, the way you choose to take it is obviously your way of seeking a buzz from it.

There is no point in arguing about this any more. You have admitted that the only reason you came to this site is to "Warn Us"....well, consider us warned. You can go now.





Does taking it as prescribed (less actually) mean abusing it? Regardless of whether it gives me a buzz or not?

I was prescribed 24mg a day. I took 2-3mg at a time, I actually would sometimes take more and sometimes take less. A day or so ago I dropped down to 2-3mg twice a day.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:52 pm 
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That's a great start 5. I wish you luck with that, honestly.

Would you still like you account to be deleted? I will take care of it if that is what you want.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:54 pm 
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Did your doctor tell you to take it 5 times a day? I doubt it.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:14 pm 
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Would I consider it abuse? Yes, you're not prescribed buprenorphine at all right now, haven't had a DR for at least six months and now are running out of the extra buprenorphine you had saved up. I would also consider altering the schedule or amount your Dr had prescribed you abuse of the medication as well. Lets just be honest about it, we can talk around the issue all day but someone who is supposed to take a medication one time daily at a dosage above the ceiling to provide stability and structure and then go about their life should not be taking it five times daily in small dosages. The type of self-prescription and usage you describe is too similar to multiple-time dosing with other opioids and makes the way you are taking buprenorphine no different from your earlier comparison to heroin maintenance. All of these factors make me seriously question how far removed you are from active addiction at all, buprenorphine or not.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:50 pm 
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Nevermind


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:14 pm 
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I received an email from 'five years' today, complete with a few snide comments, and the promise that he will move to 'subsux'-- where everyone is SO much smarter.

Hardly the model of recovery. I wish him luck. Sort of.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:48 am 
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Dr. j,

I have a feeling we're all just wasting our breath on this guy. if he's really as sick as he claims, he'd be taking your advice and desperately trying to save his own life, instead of arguing every point anyone makes. I've a feeling he's just a troll. the nerve of that idiot " warning us all about the dangers and evils of Suboxone, as if we're all so dumb, we have no idea what we are taking, and he is SO enlightened. puh lease! we're pretty nice at our little forum even when letting someone have it, so to speak. he's going to bee a real smash hit at sub sux. com of he goes over there acting like he's smarter than all the rest of their group. there are some very angry people there, that'll knock him down a peg or two. he kept on pm ing me last night and today to educate me about how bupe is ruining my receptors and my brain, and finally that he'd be going to subsux, where they know what they're actually talking about. I bid him ado, and hope that if he really is dying, he'll find the help he needs, either way, he's obviously in pain and suffering emotionally, to get some real recovery going. all anyone can do.


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