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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:02 pm 
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Hi, my name is Kevin. I am a former Heroin addict. I have almost fatally overdosed multiple times in my using days. Been in many rehabilitation situations; none of them being successful. I finally demanded from my doctor that he put me on SUBOXONE. I have been on it for about 5 months. I started at the 8mgs for induction, and within days I was at 4mgs because that was all I needed since the heroin withdrawals had passed. I knew I would have been right back on heroin if I tried to just use the Subs for rapid detox. I needed something more long term if I was going to remain alive. I was on 4mgs for about 2 months. I began tapering down to 2mg over the course of a month and a half. Eventually I got down to 1mg.....then .5mgs which I stayed on until I was able to get enough time off of work to stay at home to detox off the suboxone. I will be completely honest. Every message board I came across (while looking for info on what to expect while Detoxing) did nothing for me other than terrify me. Including this one. now I understand that a lot of people have bad experiences, but people have to realize that most of these people buy this stuff off the street and then lose their hook up. Or can't pay for it anymore and have to drop off at 8mgs.....and so on and so forth. Many aren't under direct supervision of a doctor who is well informed about this drug. There are so many factors that tie into why that individual had such an awful experience. Suboxone is a powerful opiate...stronger than morphine. Of course there will be a withdrawal! Though let me tell you, if you do it right it's less painful than a bad hangover. I am now on the evening of day 7 since coming off. I have not had more than a few slight chills, and some sliiiiight intestinal problems (which only happened because I didn't keep up with the meds that I had to help. Honestly the worst thing has been some insomnia.

Medication is my next topic. If you do this process under your doctor, I'm sure that doctor will do all he can to help you..as mine has. Let me tell you what I am on. I am basically on the same meds I was given when I went to the last Dry out clinic before Suboxone. My doctor has prescribed me CLONIDINE (CATAPRESS). It's a blood pressure med, and it is single handedly the most wonderful and helpful drug (other than more opiates) for opiate withdrawal. It takes away all chills,sweats,tingles, anxiety, AND helps you sleep. I'd recommend about .2mgs. Other than that there is Bentyl for diarrhea, and Neurontin for muscle cramps in your legs, back, etc. It helps by keeping the body's sympathetic nervous system in line while detoxing. Those three drugs, and as far as I'm concerned (having used it twice for heavy detox) YOU WILL NOT FEEL HARDLY A THING.

My mother has been my main support, and when I used to get all upset about reading these horror stories I'd wonder "why isn't ANYONE writing any positive stories?" I figured if I couldn't find any positive stories that there must not be any. She would always reassure me that the people who did fine detoxing had better things to do with their life than whine about their situation on a stupid message board. You know what? She is right. I wasn;t going to do this either, bu then I thought about the person that is just like me, who is struggling right now just looking for some positive outlook. It was a pain in the butt to register and go through all of this just so I could throw some hope out there. I just hope this helps that person.

This is no big deal. I have felt, and still feel just fine throughout this whole process so far. Everything will be fine if you do it right.

Adios!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:55 pm 
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I am so glad you posted that. I know so many people that have come off sub just like you and said it was nothing. Most, if not all, never even missed a day of work. I don't know about anyone else but when I would quit oxy or heroin I would be laid up for days. I would miss work. I couldn't get out of bed yet I couldn't sleep. I was extremely ill. Watching people I know personally ease thier way slowly off sub and having plenty experience detoxing from full agonist opiates I can't imagine it is in the same ball park. I have never tried to quit suboxone so i have no first hand experience and I didn't want to post second hand stories of others experiences. I've tried to get a couple of the people I know to come on here and tell thier stories of how easy it was for them. We need more of these experiences shared on here. It's discouraging to read post after post of people describing pure hell when coming off suboxone. If I was researching suboxone for myself or a loved one all those threads might lean me towards staying away from sub. Not saying these negative stories are not real, I just think it is a smaller percentage than people realize. Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:24 am 
Hi Kevin,

Thank you so much for taking the time to post your positive story!

I have also been getting tired of reading the negative experiences of people using/stoping Suboxone. It is so nice to hear that you have had a good experience and are doing well. I too think that if Suboxone is used properly under the supervision of a doctor, it can be a wonderful way to help change your life.

It would be great if you stuck around here and posted more often. I have been on sub for a little over three months and have found this message board to be very helpful and educational. I am sure you could make a great contribution here!

Take care, Kire


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:41 am 
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Hello Kevin and welcome to the forum. Like the others, I want to thank you for taking the time to share your story with us. I've heard other experiences very similar to yours, many on this very site. Unfortunately, they've been overtaken by the negative experiences. (And if the subject line isn't clear enough, one can't find them as positive stories.) I even know someone who cold-turkey'ed from 12 mg and only missed a half-day of work.

You and your mom are spot on - the people with positive experiences are out living their lives, not bitching about it on an online forum. Unfortunately, those are the stories that most need to be heard. So again, THANK YOU for taking the time out of your day to try to balance out the negative.

As has already been said, I, too, hope you stick around and keep posting. There are lots of great people here who need and are providing support.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:56 pm 
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Kevin,
I was also very afraid of the jump from what I was reading on the web. I was taking 15-20 30mg blue devils daily until I along with 43 others were busted because the sellers phone was tapped. I went to the Dr 7/3/2009 and was given subs 16mg daily and thought it was way to much personally so I took 4mg daily and March of this year went to 2mg. I then tapered to 1mg until 8/4/2010 and took the jump. I was fine days 1-2 but started to feel it 3-4 badly. I had the hardest time with insomnia and lack of energy. I sent a pm to a member on the board for support yesterday and was told exercise as often as I can and it seems like the best meds so far. I finally left the house today for a bit and think the worst is behind me. I just wish I could sleep more.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:06 pm 
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I'm glad there's been a positive reaction to my post. I was slightly concerned I might have even offended some of the people who have had bad experiences, though that was not the intention. I was just very frustrated that the information I wanted to hear was not out there when I needed it. My irritation would actually be more directed towards the people who do okay and DON'T post. So anyway, it's the night of the 8th day. Still dosing .1mg Clonidines twice daily. Morning and night. Neurontin as needed, though I hardly have any aches anymore. They faded down to nothing about 2 days ago. Bentyl twice daily now. Started having slight bathroom issues (sorry) randomly yesterday (day 7). So once in AM and now at PM. My sleep pattern is obnoxious. I take my night dose of clonidine and fall asleep and hour or two later. Sleep for an hour or two and wake up, to use the bathroom or for no reason at all. Whatever the reason I wake up for; once I wake up I'm up for the night. Can;t get back to sleep. Around 6am though I am for whatever reason able to fall back asleep and sleep for about 4 - 5 1/2 hours. So even though it's all screwed up, and I'm up all night....I'm still getting 6-7 hours of sleep. Insomnia has truly been the the only thing that meds haven't sufficiently taken care of.

Don't know what this would have felt like naturally.....ya know....without the meds I have to help me. I don't know what other people are going through who do this differently, but I am doing great with the route I have been fortunate enough to have offered to me.

Day 9 tomorrow... honestly I'm just REALLY bored being out of work, and with not much to do because I feel a lil weak and funny on the clonidine. So it's not like I can really go out and socialize normally. Therefore I'm cooped up in the house. 5 more days and I'm gonna wait on my clonidine dose and see where I am.

Have a good one everyone,

Kevin


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 Post subject: my story all self
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:27 pm 
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I have been in constant withdrawl for months. Primarily because I self medicated with sub. I actually received sub from my primary and surgeon. They had never prescribed the stuff and figured I'd be better off with it than my favorite, vics. Huge mistake. Subsequently hooked up with 2 sub docs who completely contradicted each other. It is my belief that my magic dose was 5 mg/day. At that accidental dosing sub saved my life. Full of life, not scoring on street or hosptal jumping. However without a compassionate and competant doc good luck maintaining YOUR magic dose. My advice if your on sub and struggling find your spot and stick it, it works. If your not on sub try to beat your demons on your own, you ca always go on sub if all else fails, it's there for you. After not stabilizing on subs I decided to self taper and jump. Have I mentioned huge mistake yet? 24 days and still not even close to 50% Don't be scared. I have my freedom and I would pay any amount of time to be even where I'm at now. What am I trying to say, I'm not cmpletely sure. I'm at a point where I can sort of put together thoughts. The withdrawl from sub for me has been excrutiating, in comarison being on subs was far worse. Understand likely because of the lack of help and proper dosing.

This is my first post please excuse my lack of structure and advice. Rest asurred I have been through it ALL. I have been reading on this site for months and it has been very helpful. How about this: Write me with direct questions, I will be helpful to somebody I'm sure. In the meantime I will continue to recover and will post more substantive directionality. That last word probably does not exist I'm sure you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:36 am 
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Kevin I'm right there with you and you are right. I am on day 5 no sub and feel fantastic. It was not anywheres' NEAR as bad as some people make it out to be but I also think it depends on how everyone's body reacts to it. I feel one of the fortunate ones as I have never had an addictive personality so I'm wondering if that's how I survived. I've done crack, cocaine, acid.. you name it and was able to just stop but opiates are the only thing that physically got to me so before I knew it my body needed it to function. Anyways, since I've been off suboxone I don't have as much of a desire to post whereas before I was scrambling for any answers and advice I could get. I should keep posting though because positive stories are what keep people strong. Congrats on your sobriety!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:56 am 
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Luvla, Thanks for posting even though, as you say, you don't need much advice anymore. I am deathly afraid of WD. Never experienced it off subs, only pills.

Now, idiot that I am, I took extra subs. My appointment is tues Oct 19. I wonder if I will make it?

Any helpful little tidbits you can throw my way? I will say, I am limited in mobility. I am an amputee. Can't get around easily. In fact, homebound 90% of the time. Whicih doesn't do me good in the depressed dept. Man, itn is lonely in this room. But, where can I go?

God bless you Queenie


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:42 am 
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First off, congratulations on getting off of suboxone successfully. I hope your "jump" continues to go smoothly.

Secondly, thank you so much for you post. Reading that just brightened my day to the nth degree. You have no idea how refreshing it is to see a positive story about suboxone withdrawal (or maybe you do, idk). Stories like yours are priceless. You are obviously a strong person, and I wish you all the best in your new, sober life.

I can't wait to be where you are! Again, congratz! And please continue to post your progress, if you feel up to it.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:42 am 
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Kevin,
Finally I see someone else with a story similar to mine & my husband. I am on my 22 day off suboxone(and so is my hubby) & it felt like a mild cold. I completely understand why you didn't feel the need to post at first, but we thank you for doing so. The horror stories outnumber the good ones. I get that, larger, more long term doses have a higher risk of w/d. But people do need posts telling positive outcomes. I still lack energy & I sneeze, but I can handle it. The energy bothers me the worse because I want to do too much for my body. I forgot to ask on my last post, but I have had the overwhelming desire to run, I hate running, has anyone else that quit felt like they wanted to just run 5 miles. Sounds weird I am sure, but my mind is saying it needs it. Anyway, your mother is right, once we are off, it is just not at the top of the list to let people know how we are doing. But as I am sure you can see, it gives hope to so many that are just as worried as we were. So here is giant thank you from me...so glad to see stories like yours, and well mine! Congrats!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:35 am 
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Xdfdsfdsfs sfSf SF SDf dsf SDfSF SFD SfSDF SDF SDF


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 Post subject: A new insight...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:33 am 
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I think what people should be aware of and what should be said by a competent doctor before they are prescribed Suboxone is that if you take the drug as a maintenance dose (meaning longer than 1 month or even a month) that you should expect to have a recommended taper period of 3-6 months. That is because of the half-life of the Suboxone. Now if you were to take heroin and ween off of it to a low dose you would have minimal withdrawals too. In contrast, heroin will give you worst withdrawal in a shorter period of time (my experience has been 3 days) but Suboxone will give you a much more moderate withdrawal but have a much longer duration usually 30 days 10 x's the amount as heroin. From my experience, you don't feel bad for 3-4 days, then feel worst at 5-10 days, and after that you will have moderate lingering effects for weeks up until 30 days at that point, where in my case, it was tolerable. Now I say this as my personal experience, I do recognize that people do have different body make-up, levels of spirituality, and mentality. There is no wrong answer as different groups of people will have similar experiences and other groups of people will have contrasting experiences.

But I full well do believe that Suboxone is THE WORST withdrawal out of all opiates not in terms of measure of discomfort during withdrawal, but measured by how much time the effects of withdrawal last including highest rate of relapse because of the duration. To support that conclusion, is the fact that the most likely time a addict will relapse is during the withdrawal period or directly after the withdrawal.

Perhaps this may be the reason you see horrid Suboxone withdrawal stories all the time, because people are feeling like crap. They aren't incapacitated like heroin or strong painkillers, but they are just tired of STILL being sick. They had their expectations from their previous withdrawals, compared it to their current situation, and know it's worst. When I was kicking I continued to tell myself that it would be better the next day. I woke up the next morning and felt better, but after some hours I felt as bad as the previous day all over again. I continued my hope to feel better the next day, and that day never came. By the time i felt well enough to have a regular day I had already accepted that it was just going to take a long time.

What do you guys think?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:05 am 
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The thing about being able to taper off suboxone is that people actually CAN taper. Usually addicts are simply unable to taper off the full agonist that they've been using/abusing, no matter how much or how often they try. I believe that's the main difference.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:54 pm 
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Can someone give me some advice. I have been on suboxone for three years now. I have been tapering off, so I asked my doc to subscribe me one pill a day. At first it was hard, so I took one and a half the first week or two to help me sleep. Now I am out of medicine, and my next appointment isnt until Dec. 5th, I have been calling him since Wednesday, and he is nowhere to be found. I have tried to quit cold turkey before, and it was hell, I even went to the emergency room and they couldnt give me anything or do anything for me. I cant do it again. i have a job and a 10 year old to take care of. I have been without suboxone now going on my 3rd day, and I need to do something but I dont know what. I found one other doctor in my area that subscribes suboxone, but he is out of town and isnt taking new patients. is there any doctor that isnt local that could call in a prescription for me until my doctor is back in town or wherever he is? I am so scared, I dont know what to do, I am already getting sick and antsy


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Hi MSL2 - I'm so sorry to hear you're in such a terrible bind. I would keep trying to reach your sub doc, but in the meantime what about your primary care doctor? Have you tried him/her yet? If s/he won't help you (any doctor can prescribe suboxone if they write it for pain), what about asking if they will prescribe Clonodine for you? That will help with the withdrawals. I'm sorry I can't be of more help. I'm sure others will come along and give you their ideas. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject: Ran out?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:53 pm 
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I don't understand how you are out of your medication already when your next appointment is December 5. It sounds to me, sorry to make a judgment call here, you are taking more than prescribed.

Too many docs are way overprescribing on suboxone and you will get addicted to that high amount. I found .5 mg to be sufficient for me, and I came off 40 norcos/day.

I am off it for 8 days now, and I feel great. I never had withdrawals, although I did take .2 mg xanax the first 3 nights, and clonidine the 4th night, just to eliminate the restless leg syndrome.

I had no withdrawal because I took a low dose. And the lower my dose, the better my orgasms became, so that kept me going.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:59 pm 
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MSL explained it already:

Quote:
I have been tapering off, so I asked my doc to subscribe me one pill a day. At first it was hard, so I took one and a half the first week or two to help me sleep.


I guess you missed that somehow, KellyB.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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