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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:41 pm 
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I've been on Suboxone since July 2007. about 2 years ago I switched from Suboxen to Bupenorphine. I have tapered down from 16mgs to .25 mgs over the 4 years. I've been on .25 mgs for months now and have .5 mgs left (2 more doses).

I want to try to skip days and use a razor knife to cut my .5 mg chunk into as many pieces as I can. I also have 15 .01 mg Clonodine as comfort meds. What is the recommended dose of clonidine? And do you think .25 mgs is gonna be a manageable jumping off point?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:05 pm 
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Some more info. I'm a 24 year old male. About 180 lbs at 6'1''. A pack a day smoker and occasional drinker (I know, I know drinking is bad for an addict but I'm working a full time job as an HVAC tech paying rent have non addict friends etc. I dont even know why I'm explaining this.)


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 Post subject: NJSub
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:03 pm 
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Hi..I'm fairly new,no very new to this site ..so far it has been very helpful and hopeful! Regarding the clonidine the usual dosage is 1mg.twice daily and I know people have also used 1mg three x's daily.Keep in mind it is a blood pressure medication.That helps us in wd via the nervous system..so calming side effects for us in wd.Nothing in the line of "if you take more it's better" oh no it will knock you off your feet and your bp will bottom out.I think you are on a really good low dose,however I'm gonna leave the rest up the more experienced,because I'm tit-rating myself.I am a nurse so I share my experience with clonidine from what I witnessed,but all in all I believe it is an extremely helpful drug for wd symptoms...please keep me /us posted on how your doing.So far I have chatted with Romeo,hatmaker and laddertripper and they are right on the money and I have not received any ill advice at all.I wish you the best of luck and have faith.Oh one thing I do remember is a really common symptom of all opiate wd's are restless legs,they can get pretty bad for some..I tried benadry to knock it out.Worst thin I could have ever done..I believe it made it much worse.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Thanks for the quick reply. I didn't take my dose today (my first "skip a day") and took .1 mg of Clonidine when I got home from work. The restless legs and lethargy are what I'm worried about but I read the clonidine helps with the restless legs and sweats. I took the clonidine about 2 hours ago and I dont have any restless legs. I also was able to razor my .5 mg chunk of Bupe into 4 .125 mg crumbs that I'm gonna try to take every other day and clonidine on off days then just clonodine when I run out of bupe. How long should I stay on clonidine for? Can I take it before work or will I be too tired to work? (once again I do HVAC and Refrigeration work so I need my wits)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:17 am 
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Hi NJ sub....how long will you be on the clonidine?I know you will need it after you sub taper is complete,it is a bp med so people do go out to work on it,also I have read that some people do titrate so slowly,getting to the lowest dose..that they find themselves able to go to work..I have recently learned keeping busy during wd,is the best thing to do!How did you feel when you took 1 at home..did you feel to tired or sedated? I would use that as a test.I do believe when you taper you do so til you get comfortable at the last lower dose you took,then decrease again til you are comfortable at that dose..and so on.I dont know what the more experienced will say or even if you should use clonidine during titration..we will wait and see..I just wanted to get back to you..hang in there,there are more answers.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:50 am 
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Hi NYsub,

Hopewins has already been giving you some good advice, I just wanted to answer your question of how long to stay on Clonidine. I took .1mg twice daily for months and months and months. When I quit taking Clonidine, I first went to once a day dosing for a week or so, then quit altogether. There was no withdrawal or anything like that associated with quitting Clonidine, however, with it being a blood pressure medication, you're gonna want to have your doctor keep an eye on your blood pressure.

You can take Clonidine before work, it shouldn't cause you any issues, but like hopewins said, you're gonna have to "test" it and see how you react. Did that dose of Clonidine you take knock you on your ass??

You can take Clonidine during your taper too.....again, you just gotta be watching your blood pressure.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:17 am 
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NJSub, you've set yourself up for success, after staying on .25 for months and months. Good for you!! Can you try to space your crumbs as absolutely far apart as possible? This is what I'm doing now with my dosing and it's very effective for getting down quickly. If I were you and had only a few tiny doses left, I'd wait until I either had horrible anxiety or my legs were freaking out and wouldn't let me sleep before I'd take any. You have to sleep! That's priority. You are already down so low that I seriously doubt this is going to be a terrible w/d. I'm sure you'll feel kinda crappy, but not too bad. You have your Clonidine. I love that stuff!! Maybe you can shove your doses apart enough and get to the weekend, at which point you can 'jump' and get through the first couple nights, which may be difficult.

Good luck! You're at the finish line now.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:24 pm 
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Just my humble opinion, I believe going off a dose of 0.25mg (or better yet 0.125mg) you will be fine.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:26 pm 
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Thank you Liilval..I still dont understand how I will know some one answered my post


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:21 am 
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I jumped at .25 I believe ( cut a 2mg into 8 pieces ) and I needed clonidine, it wasent that bad.... shit I have to check my taper thread cuz I dont remember if it was .125 or .25 but I did skip days untill one day I decided I was done ( april 15th)

You can do this

Laddertipper I have been paying attenttion to how you have been dropping RIGHT ON GIRL your doing it too


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:28 am 
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OK I jumped at .25 but skipped days till i felt ok on the skipped days then I stopped


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:18 pm 
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mg113 wrote:
I jumped at .25 I believe ( cut a 2mg into 8 pieces ) and I needed clonidine, it wasent that bad.... shit I have to check my taper thread cuz I dont remember if it was .125 or .25 but I did skip days untill one day I decided I was done ( april 15th)

You can do this

Laddertipper I have been paying attenttion to how you have been dropping RIGHT ON GIRL your doing it too


Thanks so much! I feel like I'm really getting somewhere. This next week will be the big push when I consistently start taking .25 every night and not alternating between that and .375. Once I get to .25 once a day, well, that will be something!! I'm trying to hold off today and not take the .25 until around bed. If I want to only take .25, I have to do it all at once at night or else I'll wake up in a nasty panic.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:11 pm 
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RIGHT ON LADDER.... I havent posted much cuz I had other health issues ( surgery to remove the cyst, was on steroids from poison ivy which made me more crazy) but I wanted you to know I have been reading all of your posts ( you helped me alot girl) and am so proud of you for how far you have come!!!!

Hugs.......
Lisa


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Thank you everyone for responding. I took my last .125 mg crumb yesterday and am already feeling the effects. Which I think is good as I am on my way. I woke up today and took a multi vitamin geared twoards energy and half a .1 mg clonodine. I only have like 9 more clonodine left so I want to make it last. Right now my symptoms are some fatigue and my arms feel a little anxious and weak. Nothing terrible as of yet but we'll see 3 days from now. Thank you for the encouragment. My fear was subsided from you guys telling me my final dose was perfect for a jump off to make detox as painless as possible. Will keep you all posted.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Maybe everyone here is smarter than me, but I don't understand w/d using "crumbles" (impossible to accurately measure) and "skipping" as w/d mechanism (as it relies, ultimately, on willpower). I will give my reasons, and add that I have never been prescribed clonidine. I am using Xanax while w/d from Suboxone, and am at .8mg/day using the liquid method and am reducing dose at the rate of .16 mg approx every 3 days. I am experiencing flu-like syptoms, just in the past 48 hrs.

First, the medication is not evenly distributed throughout the 8mg suboxone tablet. Hence, scoring, cutting, or "crumbling" is ineffective, as you never know where the bupe or nalox is situated in the tablet.

Second, skipping for an addict seems analogous to not eating for a day so that willpower becomes the motive force whereas tapering, by definition, involves moving to plateaus that the central nervous system gradually adjusts to.

I know that benzos may be a more virulent addiction than ops or sub, but one addicition at a time! when I jump I plan on using the Ashton manual for benzo w/d.

Comments welcome!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:19 pm 
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I don't think it has to be accurate. Regardless of equal distribution in the pill or not I was still taking 2 mgs spread out over the course of 8 days then just taking 2 mgs per day. Even if one of those crumbles had the entire 2 mgs in it then the other 7 days I had were nothing. And the placebo effect just made me feel like I did have it.


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 Post subject: njsub .25 mg
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:12 pm 
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Well, never argue w success...especially w. someone from NJ. But I'm curious: has the placebo effect been scientifically validated in op dependence w/d. That's news for me.

Also, your opinion on skipping as w/d strategy?

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:39 pm 
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Skipping a day just mentally preppared me for my jump off today. I was feeling withdrawls those days I skipped so today I was ready for what I was gonna feel. And I guess if you want to go theory wise since I was taking .125 every other day by the laws of math "theoretically" I was only taking .0625 "per day" so another drop off in dose. I dunno. Non of this is backed up scientiffically. All of this is "fuck it, let's see if this works". As for the placebo effect. I have no idea if it does. This is all just my theory. And I do HVAC work. Not chemistry or Anatomy. So don't take my word for it


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Skipping a day just mentally preppared me for my jump off today. I was feeling withdrawls those days I skipped so today I was ready for what I was gonna feel. And I guess if you want to go theory wise since I was taking .125 every other day by the laws of math "theoretically" I was only taking .0625 "per day" so another drop off in dose. I dunno. Non of this is backed up scientiffically. All of this is "fuck it, let's see if this works". As for the placebo effect. I have no idea if it does. This is all just my theory. And I do HVAC work. Not chemistry or Anatomy. So don't take my word for it


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 Post subject: subnj .25
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:20 pm 
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I apologize...I didn't mean to get you irritable...all of us are trust travelling in the unknown universe groping for answers....HVAC is a great business...I wish you a long and happy life!


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