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 Post subject: Coming clean
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:00 pm 
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[font=Georgia] [/font] Hey! My story is what i call "your typical dysfunctional american family"x 1000! Abused by bio dad, then step dad... Fast forward to teen yrs i ran with the ruff crowd. Drinking wasn't really my thing but ANYTHING was better than feeling "normal".. Back then all My friends smoke pot , drink, some did coke ect....Thinking back i guess we all had similar childhoods. I was in therapy on & off since i was two.(IK right 2 WTF!!!!)& i was always in the self help section of the book store. :? I had my first encounter with opiates after i had my wisdom teeth pulled, i remember feeling peaceful/ normal for the 1st time in my whole pathetic life. I was functioning tho ,back then, i was a general manager that companies would hire to turn their restaurants around. On all accounts i looked & acted normal & was drug free. After i was married & in the hospital (1994 i was 22 yrs) w/ my 1st son the nurse gave me a vicodin for pain.....Life felt perfect!Back the you got a scipt sent home too!Like the wisdom teeth time once the scipt was out i was done & all that stayed w/ me was i can't wait for the next time i need pain meds!After my 1st son 6 months i think i started my merry go round of antidepressants, Paxil was the 1st. Since 94 i have been on every antidepressant there is, sometimes 2 antidepressants at the same time with xanax & counseling. :shock: By 2005 is when i started taking my husbands pain pills, i was cleaning & found his old scipt .I had a great day, cleaning , cooking, great mood , something in me made the connection that for me happiness / feeling normal only came with opiates.Lucky for me my husband has a bad back, (twisted thinking hah?)Poor hubby ended up having his records flagged cause i stole everything from him. :oops: Now my last two yrs gets interesting, we had a new neighbor move in & we became BBF's she had the same upbringing as me, but unlike me she was a textbook case(i am not) she was a ex/stripper,w/ a record & on suboxone. I was married, 4 kids in school for nursing( on xanax) at the time. Cut to the chase i ended up on subs (not the right way) for a yr.Best yr of my life, i stated my own business i was going out w/ friends, (i usually have agoraphobia) my depression was completely gone, no panic attacks, i was happy! We ended up moving and i had to w/d at home( do not do this) i won't go into that but it's been almost a yr of can't get out of bed depression , never ending shrink appointments, trying the new antidepressants, thinking none stop "is it ok to pray God end my life?" I am going to a sub doc/shrink on Fri,& i pray that i never have to go off suboxone again.

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 Post subject: forgot info
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:42 pm 
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I forgot some info, i have started using again.Nothing too crazy but i think it best to go back on subs .....For me no amount of therapy or meds ,antidepressants, xanax, working out, or even TIME seems to help my wanting to use.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:06 pm 
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hey unique name,

some people do need long term maintence in order to live a notmal life. It seems as though once addicted to opiates it changes things in the brain. Some people can learn to manage cravings and replace drug-use with other activities, but some simply cannot get to a healthy state of mind with out medicated assistance.

You have spent a year off sub and that is impressive! You have tried anti-depressants to no avail...so it seens you are a good candidate for long term treatment. Im sorry living drug free didnt seem to work out for you, but glad you have come to the realization of what you need to do!

have you tried meetings/counseling or maybe a long-term intensive rehab before going the route of life-long maintence?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Once again... It's NOT a bad thing or make you weak to take suboxone.

I just wanted to ask if you were using anything else like alcohol or weed or anything.

I agree with beautiful that meetings and counseling would be very beneficial to you.

I see this all the time... People want off suboxone for crazy reasons... Whether they want to be more accepted by their peers, feel guilty for taking it, feel less clean or not clean, to please others....

It's ridiculous!!

We are all opiate addicts here. This by itself is a lifelong problem. You don't just put it behind you or grow out of it. So. Why would you rather struggle through life because you are considered "cleaner" or something?

Many say they want to be more themselves again, laugh, cry, scream, love again... This is crazy. If you think suboxone is the cause of you feeling a total lack of feelings or emotions.... You have bigger fish to fry.

I guess in my opinion it's better to live a full life full of good times and real living.... Than it is to not take it for foolish reasons... Or any reason.... And have constant cravings and struggling. Fuck that.

Yes. People are individual. We are all different. But. Opiate addiction is all the same. You can use until death, take a replacement, or fully involve yourself in 12 step stuff. That's it. That's your options. That's not my opinion either. It's just the way it is. If you say this is false... That's okay..... But I'd like to hear the other options that really work for opiate addicts.... Not just one of them.


Ahhh. I'm done rambling. Sorry for landing on your thread to unload lol.


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 Post subject: going back on subs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:47 pm 
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@beatifuldisaster I have been in some form of therapy most of my life, willingly i might add. I hide my true self very well & would have months of being able to function when i was younger. I been told by doc's i have PTSD, & refractory depression(treatment resistant depression) I also tend to disassociate daily which i wasn't even aware of till this yr. Again i can pull off acting normal in just about any situation. Childhood abuse leaves many w/ a super 6th sense if you will to read people's body language, moods, & be able to have a short covo w/ a stranger & know that person is just like you. So in short i can gauge how to fit in w/ any crowd or person which is kinda fun! Childhood Abuse also gives you a super tolerance for physical & emotional pain, so i don't notice how bad i feel till it's too late. What sucks is as a child & into my teens i would go through times of wanting to jump out of my skin & have a uncontrollable urge to not feel what i was feeling, so i would drink, smoke pot , coke(the down wasn't worth the up) poppy tea , poppy pod, as of this yr. Seems as i age( i'm 42) these "episodes" are worse last WAY longer & my tolerance for drugs is worse,(too high)I have spent my whole life in therapy & i think for me these issue are permanent. *smacks head* :lol:What i would love to know is do people who use, USE because they are DEPRESSED?Thoughts???

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:28 pm 
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@Moviemaker right now i feel the urge getting severe that's why i have a apptt.on Fri to go back on subs.Drinking is not my thing, nor pot but i have done both a lot. I went straight to husbands percs & vics, as well as tramadol+poppy seed &pods/poppy pod putty...And i swear nothing works, i just calm down a bit. For me after subs , 6,7,8, months after i have never been able to get high again.Now that could be a good thing or bad for some people.I have my theories though that synthetic opiates, that they tend to have a LONG ass w/d & that seizures associated w/ Tramadol is from serotonin syndrome. Also a lot of people who do get off subs including myself, go through" i hate subs" phase during the w/d's cause for many PAWS really, really, sucks...For me i have read & believe that subs even at a sm dose of 1mg to .25 made my tolerance go up OR changed my brain somehow OR.... that almost a yr later it's still PAWS.? On the flip side i had the best yr of my life on subs.I was happy, working, going to nursing school, started a business could give up all my antidepressants, which have their own shitty sometimes deadly side effects. I was even on the PTA at my kids school!!!As for not having feelings on subs i had the opposite thing , for the 1st time i realize things i like to do, things i wanted to experience in life. For me off subs was 30 something yrs of therapy, pain, drugs, on & off more drugs for depression/ anxiety ect.I couldn't bring myself to except that i was a druggie?I do have to say IMHO there should be some tolerance for people who need or want to get off subs, & find for them w/d's from subs is shockingly bad. Anger tends to be another emotion in disguise.Some posts broke my heart. Maybe there could be a bitch & moan thread? Maybe there is a thread for this i just haven't noticed?I guess i have seen the whole picture through my eyes of couse & i tend to fall into the role as caregiver, lol!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:12 pm 
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That's all great stuff. I agree with most.

What confused me... Did you try to use opiates after being off suboxone? Have you been recently?

Scary stuff.

But. Suboxone doesn't "change your brain" or anything like that... Your tolerance is just still really high. Pods aren't a good judge either. You just can't promise potency.

My point was that no opiate addict can just walk away and stay walked away (unless they find a new love like alcohol or something).

It takes work. Even with suboxone.

Use till you die, fully involve yourself with a twelve step fellowship with your whole life, or take suboxone and work a little bit on yourself.



That's your choices at the end of the day.


No bending that one. Just the honest to god truth.


Go ahead and try something different if you want to though. You might be okay for a year or so, but that's it. You just aren't using opiates. Like a dry drunk for an addict lol.


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 Post subject: Anywayyyyy....
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:19 pm 
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uniquename-


So your suboxone doctor appointment is this friday? I think it's good that you're meeting with a doctor to get back on sub the right way, a legitimate way. It seems like this medication was really working for you. It also seems like you're still struggling pretty bad off of it. I hope your appointment goes well, please keep us posted!

What was your comfortable dose when you were on it before? Be careful if/ when inducing again. Start slow and add as needed. You may have a high tolerance to oxycodone/hydro right now but your tolerance to suboxone will be low. Most doctors over prescribe.. Try to ease into whatever dose you're going for.

Good luck. It sounds like you know what you need. Be safe until then!

Oh, and sorry to hear about all of your history. Childhood trauma is a bitch, isn't it? It's the gift that keeps on giving.. unfortunately. (hugs)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Hi, sorry it took so long to respond the weather here is nuts!I was on the forum every night reading but before i knew it BAM, tornado warning beeping on TV/phones, no power, dogs going crazy, sure is different in the south! Anyway i have been doing a lot of reading/thinking & for me i know you're right, i'm not going to change.Its like my mind overrides my will.I was using within wks of going off subs.I didn't want to go off subs ,i had too cause i moved away. Yes SWIM has used recently, some percs/pod putty/ultram(hate them) I can't believe i misunderstood what a addict was. I am sooo embarrassed to know i wanted to get something stronger :oops: Really now who goggles "How to spot a dealer"I will now crawl under a rock... :oops: This whole thing was actually good for me.I went on subs did great/went off did bad....Found my OWN doctor learned a life saving lesson,(DUHHHH, I'M A ADDICT) :roll: it's all good!Doctor said i was a good candidate for long,long, long, term use.. The doctor was SUPER nice guy, he a shrink/sub doc... REALLY fancy building too.I have a question why is there mouthwash dispensers 5 of them in the ladies room? What is the temp thing on the bottom of the urine cup?I'm guessing to see if it's the right temp ? The mouthwash thing i'm totally confused.... :? Thanks for listening/reading no one here would understand... How are you doing? What is your maintenance dose? What was your poison?
Nicole

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 Post subject: ~~~~~~~
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:33 pm 
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Tinydancer Hi, Is your screen name after Elton John's song?
How are you tonight? Well... my appointment went well, nice doctor, not so nice secretary. I definitely noticed some(looks) from one secretary... Last year i started at 2mg & then dropped to 1mg for maintenance & stayed there. My scipt said 2~ 8mg films a day in the A.M., 16mg"s???!!!! thats not gonna happen!!! I took 2mg today . Do You think sub doctors assume all their patients lie over the amount of their use, therefore they jack UP the sub amount??? Lol!I started this POST last night but quickly got sick(puking).... Last year i had a few times of getting sick but as soon as i did i felt fine.Last night i was fine till i got up to do something then i was running for the bathroom! This(getting sick) does happen to me w/ other drugs as well...Sometimes coffee makes me ill!!! :roll: Starting today at .50 maybe 1mg, i also read not to swallow as sub dissolves , wait 20 mins DO NOT EVER SWALLOW & you would never get sick again. IDK...

Did you also have a fun filled childhood?


Nicole

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Re: mouthwash.. If your sub doctor is in a medical building, which is sounds like he is, there are probably several Dentist offices. People often need to rinse before and after dentist appointments so that could be it. Otherwise, it's just really fancy, like you say. lol

I can't believe your doc wrote you for 16mg a day. That's insane. I mean, I can believe it, which is why I brought it up, but jeez.. That's just negligent IMO. I'm sure he means well and is just doing what he was instructed to do but, sigh, it's over kill.
You should see how 1mg does for you. I'm pretty impatient and always swallowed my sub early. I never got sick.. IDK.

Yup, another colorful childhood here. I'm sure we're in good company on this site. :D

keep us posted, hope you adjust to the right dose!


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 Post subject: Back On
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Hi Nicole,

It's good to know you are going back on to Sub again. Yes, you are right. You just can't seem to catch a buzz on pain pills once you've had Sub in your system for awhile. I wonder how long it would take for your tolerance level to go back to normal. But that doesn't matter one bit. Suboxone is meant to stop cravings and it does just that.

If you read any of the medical documents from RB about Sub, most of them recommend a daily dose of 8-16 mg's so your doctor is just doing what he was told by the company rep. I think it even says that in the pamphlet that comes with the Sub.

And don't worry about swallowing the Sub spit. Just put it under your tongue and forget about it. If you're a person who has a great deal of saliva, then maybe putting it between your lip and gums would work better for you. Your upper lip would probably work best. Either way, you are getting the medicine through a membrane. There are other ways to take it but I won't go there.

You might want to tell your doctor that he is prescribing too much for you. They make a 2 mg film that doesn't taste as bad as the 8 mg film. Honesty is always the best way to go.

R62

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:28 am 
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Yep, it seems as if 16mg is what most docs want to start patients out on. When I was beginning treatment I would have LOVED it if my doc would have giving me 16mg. But now that I'm tapering, I'm glad he understood that it was overkill and stuck with 8mg. I wonder about the fact that even 2mg is making you sick though. Especially since you have been on subs before. I never got sick from it, even the very first days of treatment. Although my Mom, who had pretty much the same habit I did for an even longer time, did get sick for the first week or so of treatment on the same dose. Who knows why each of us react so differently, but I'm sure it will get better soon. Did you experience this the last time you were on sub?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Uniquename,

I cant believe i didnt see your reply and progress until now!!! I agree with alot of what you said, and i can definitly relate to you about the childhood abuse stuff. My mom was a drinker and i remember this one time during my childhood where my mother came into my bedroom DRUNK, and she woke me up and told me that i was the reason she didnt have a man. That sort of thing happend a few other times, growing up i felt resented. I think when that sort of thing happens to a child we develop different survival skills or that "sixth sense" you speak of, being able to gauge peoples moods and personalties very quickly. Like you i can fit in almost anywhere and i get along with almost anyone, i think im a pretty dynamic person.

Im so happy for you, that you got your own sub doc :D Maybe now you can start enjoying your life again!! As for the sick feeling, if i were you id stick to a low dose like 2mg, and it should pass. Keep us updated...hugs from me too!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:41 pm 
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BeautifulDisaster wrote:
Uniquename,
i remember this one time during my childhood where my mother came into my bedroom DRUNK, and she woke me up and told me that i was the reason she didnt have a man.


On the flip side, I'm pretty sure I was responsible for my Dad getting laid and having as many girlfriends as he did (and 4 wives.) Women saw a young, good looking, single father and were hooked. It was ridiculous how many women flocked to him when I was younger :roll:

Isn't it weird how there's a double standard for women and men in that regard? A single mom has baggage.. and a single father is cute. I'll admit this isn't a hard and fast rule but that's usually what we think of first in these two scenarios.

Sorry you went through that. hugs.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:32 pm 
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Tinydancer,

That totally makes sense, that double standard. I think its true in alot of cases.

And you were right in your earlier post...about how were in good company on this
site regarding childhood abuse. I think thats probably why they say "genetics" can play a role in addiction. idk, maybe theres a specfic gene that makes people more likely to be addicts, but i think childhood and personality are two of the biggest factors.

Hugs back, lol


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Oh yeah

i can totally see girls flocking toward a single father/good looking young guy. my boyfriends brother is the perfect example of that....all the women seem to come and go through what seems like a revolving door, and they all seem to love his kids. The girls he breaks up with all come see me to talk abouy how much they like him, and how they all got really attached with his kids and miss them.


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 Post subject: ~
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:38 pm 
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Tinydancer~hi, yeah no dentist in the office, i guess it is just a real fancy building,lol!Sorry you had a crappy childhood also...Crazy how common childhood abuse is....
Rule62~One would think ones tolerance would have come down after 10 months of being off subs,,, but it didn't...I have read some people could use 72 hours after last sub dose & feel affects, others like me nothing...I hope it IS tolerance & not some other issue (theory i read)...I might need legit pain relief some day. Hmmmm, other way of taking subs??? I wrote out my guess then erased it,lol!!! :oops:
qhoreseqal2~hi, sometimes i will radomly just get sick before & now on any drug...For no reason, not to much/empty stomach ect... i just get sick.I am on 1.5 going up to 2 cause i'm still craving, grrrrr! With all things ranging from ciggs to drugs if i quit & go back i abuse more going back. All in all sub works great for me no major side effects *knocks on wood*LOL!
BeautifulDisaster~ your story about your mom is awful, i'm so sorry :cry: Did your mom ever apologize? That must have been a huge blow to have your mom say that as a child...((((hugs)))) to all!!!!
Thank you guys for posting, i have definitely needed someone to talk/ write too... :)

Nicole

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