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 Post subject: Cold Turkey
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:44 pm 
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My story is very typical of most people here. The fact of the matter is I've been on sub for 18 months and I can't handle the side effects any longer. Unfortunately, I have become extremely depressed while taking sub and nothing (anti depressants) have helped me. At first, I thought that sub was great, I thought being satisfied by just sitting in my room all day was fine but over time I realized I have lost myself completely and gained nearly 30 pounds. My entire family is suffering from what's happened to me. I didn't realize I lost my life until I started looking around and noticed I have no enthusiasm for anything. So, that being said, I have to stop taking sub and I know it's going to be extremely hard. But after reading through so many w/d stories I have realized that it doesn't seem to matter how low you get your going to go through it. Maybe it will be worse at a higher dose, idk, but I will find out soon.

I was taking 8 mgs, sometimes more depending on the day, but as an average 8 mgs a day. I jumped from 8 mgs to 4 mgs and I have been taking the 4 every other day for about 4 weeks. I took my last 4 mgs sub on Monday and today is Wednesday, day 2.

DAY 2 - Too early to tell how bad this is going to be. I wish it was day 16 because as an average that seems to be a good recovery point. My biggest fear is the depression and anxiety increase that I felt during my last attempt to quit. It ruined my quit. I'm going to take lyrica to help with the pain, my lower back is already beginning to hurt and I feel a little dizzy when standing but otherwise I'm fine. Just worried. I intend to keep updating on my condition but I don't know if I will be well enough to post. I need support, so anyone who can offer support from experience with sub w/d that would be great. I do feel alone because nobody in my life understands. I'm worried about that. I have a house full of kids, two of them teens so I can't fall apart. Basically, I have to w/d in secret because the only person who knows about my sub treatment is my husband and he doesn't get it.
If I fail at cold turkey I will begin a taper down to 2 mgs.
I'm a very strong willed person. I was a smoker for 10 years and quit without every looking back two years ago. I've always considered myself strong, this is experience is making me question everything.
Wish me luck, I need it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:41 pm 
Hello BB. I have read some of your other writings that you have posted here recently. I can hear (read) the sadness and desperation that you must be feeling. I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time. I understand how hard it is when you're feeling so poorly, physically and especially mentally, while trying to be a wife and mother and deal with all the daily stresses of life. I think you have mentioned that one or maybe two of your children have special needs as well. I can only imagine how every day could be a challenge. Add to that, the fact that is sounds like you don't have much support or understanding from your loved ones and you've really got an uphill battle.
While I do understand how you may have come to conclude that Suboxone is the cause of all your difficulties, I have to tell you that I'm afraid you might be wrong about that. Please don't take that as a criticism or lack of support from me. I do understand why you feel the way you do. I've been on Suboxone for a little over a year and have been working on tapering most of that time, especially over the last six months or so. I always desired to be on the lowest dose possible to prevent withdrawal and abate my cravings, so I quickly got to 8mg or so each day. I really didn't start having much difficulty until getting under about 4mg/day. Since then, I have had to go really slowly. I'm now at around 1mg/day and have been for close to two months probably. When I first started Suboxone, I did not go through what you did.....I felt great! After several months and some dose reductions, I have had intermittent struggles with some depressed moods, worsening as my dose got lower and lower. Now, I could easily conclude that my depression is directly related to decreasing my Suboxone dose. And I do think that has a good deal to do with it. However, I know from my own past experiences that this is almost exactly how I felt when I went off pain meds cold-turkey in the past. Therefore, I attribute my issues to being part of the fallout of my original opiate addiction....not because of Suboxone. That conclusion is even easier for me to come to because at age 46, I can say that I have never suffered from anything other than situation brief episodes of mild depression, never required treatment or meds for any sort of mood disorder before I got addicted to opiates. So for me, I blame the depression on the damage that was done to my brain chemistry because of my opiate addiction. Suboxone allowed me to break out of that addiction, but obviously I am still 'dependent' on an opiate (albeit partial-agonist) while taking Suboxone. Well, in order to have a chance at getting back to pre-addiction state (which will happen but can take years)I figure I will have to allow myself a long slow taper off Suboxone. I also just recently began an antidepressant to try and help with finishing my taper without suffering too much with the mood issues as I go along.
Sorry....back to you. It makes me wonder if you were already suffering with depression even before you started Suboxone because you mentioned that even from the beginning, you had poor motivation. And that is not something I read about here very often. Most of the time when opiate addicts start bupe, they feel really pretty good and energetic. Forgive me if you've talked about this already, but that's just what your post made me wonder. I know you mentioned trying ADs before....maybe you would consider trying again. Or maybe try therapy. I'm just concerned that you will experience a significant worsening of your depression if you go off Suboxone at 4-8mg/day. One of our moderators successfully stopped cold-turkey at an even higher dose than that recently. As I recall, she lasted a couple of months and decided that she needed to go back on mostly because of the mood issues she was struggling with. I say that just to say that I'm sure you are strong enough, as you suggested, to do this if it's what you want. But then what? What if the mood does not improve?
If you haven't already, I would just encourage you to explore all your options. Especially consider trying to do this a little slower. I just would hate to see you have a real hard time and worst case scenario, end up going back to pain meds and having more problems because of that. I believe you mentioned chronic pain problems as well, which will have to be addressed. I know I've said a lot, maybe none of it particularly helpful! But I just wanted to reach out to you, tell you I feel for you and wish you the best. This is hard....every bit of it......from the original addiction, to starting bupe, to struggling with trying to get off, or even if we even should get off. But it sounds like you're at a crossroads in terms of knowing that something has GOT to change and I get that. Just be careful and take the time you need and try not to look at it as a failure if you do find that you need to take the Suboxone again. Some people have managed to get off by just taking as minimal amount as possible and only as often as needed to manage their symptoms and eventually wind up getting off completely. That is actually the way my doctor did it and suggested that I do it.
I really hope things get better for you and you should get support here. So let us know how it goes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:40 pm 
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Hi bb,

Welcome to the forum, I am happy that you found us. It's too bad you didn't find this forum sooner so we could have all supported you through the last 18 months on Sub. It does not sound like you have a lot of support and it's possible that being on Sub could have been a better experience for you if you would have people to talk to that understand what you are going through.

I am really sorry that you are so depressed and that nothing including AD's have helped. I have suffered from depression most of my adult life and know how debilitating it can be. As a matter of fact, I am positive that is why I fell in love with opiates instantly and got so horribly addicted. At the end of my addiction, opiates made my depression far worse and I had basically lost all hope, including the will to live.

What AD are you currently on? have you tried any other AD? I know I had to try several differents AD's before I discovered the right fit, and even then had to have the dose adjusted several times. Also, for me, I would have to change AD's after about a year because staying on the same one eventually stopped working, no matter what dose I was on. You may even need a combination of AD's. I would just hate for you to go off Sub, and still feel the same as you do now. If you have already exhausted all AD's and still feel depressed, then you may have to look at other things.

Are you seeing a therapist? I know even with the right AD, I needed therapy to figure out to cope with my feelings without gulping down a handful of pills.

I have not been on Sub long enough to even consider tapering or quitting, so I apologize that I will not be of any help in that area. I do know that there are a few members still here that have sucessfully tapered off Sub, and there are many different taper plans under the Stopping Sub section. I am sure that someone with more experience in this area will be along soon to give you some better advice about this than I can. I just want to support you through this and let you know that I am usually around here every day at some point and if you ever need someone to talk to, I would be more than happy to help you get through this.

It sounds like you have a very busy household and can understand why you are not happy living your life without enthusiasm. I know when I was in my last year of addiction to oxycontin, I isolated from everyone. I went to work and then straight home, basically to my bedroom and zoned out watching tv. I used to be very active, out all the time, at the gym, church, shopping but at the end of my addiction, I never left the house unless I absolutely had to. I have 5 children, all away from home in university or married and I didn't even once go visit them the last year. I had a new grandson, that will be 2 next week and I only saw him a handful of times during his first year. UGH!!! it still gets me horribly upset when I think of all the wasted time I spent in my bedroom, instead of spending time with my kids, and grandso, time I willnever get back. I am still working at trying to repair the damage I did, and there are some relationships that will never get back to where we once were after all the lies, stealing ( I cannot believe that I actually stole money and pills from people I was suppose to love) I somehow managed to keep my job, but barely.

Sorry, back to you, I DO APLOGIZE< I start on a subject and get way off topic, I swear opiates fried my brain!!!

Sub literally saved my life. I have only been on it less than a year. I did try it a couple of times using it as a short term detox, but relapsed several times and knew that I would have to be on Sub for a very long time, to change everything in my life. I have not had any side effects from Sub after the first few weeks. I have not gained weight, although I gained a lot on oxycontin. Since I have been on Sub, I have lost the weight, but had to work at it and get back to the gym. So far, I have not felt like isolating like I did on oxy, BUT I did have to force myself to get out and do things because I had gotten in to such a horrible rut on opiates. It took a while, but I made a point of making plans on weekends, and made myself go, even if I didn't want to in the beginning. Now, I look forward to going out.

I have also been very fortunate and so far NOT had to go back on an AD. I do take lots of vitamins and this wonderful natural remedy called Sunshine in a Bottle, full of Vit. D, amino acids, ltyrosine and 5 htp. You cannot take it if you are on an AD, because of the 5htp,I think.

Not sure if this was at all helpful, just read your message and wanted to say hello to you.

Ginger


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:05 pm 
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The previous ladies have given you awesome advice. I just wanted to add that I am very concerned you just jumped off like that. Cold turkey. Esp with children I really concerned. You may be ok the first week but then you very well may not. Please reconsider, I say this as a fellow recovering addict and mom. I really think you should taper better.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:17 pm 
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Thank you so much for the support, I need it so much!

To answer the AD question, I've been on Paxil, Lexapro, Cymbalta and lastly wellbutrin and nothing has helped with this depression or lack of enthusiasm as I view it. It is rare, but I have read several posts here of people on sub feeling exactly the same way. If you read posts under subs and mood you can find multiple posts of people having the same experience as me. One woman posted she has lost her will to live and wished she would not wake up the next morning. I'm not alone in the way I feel on subs and it did not start like this at all. I was fine the first six months, at least I thought I was, it wasn't until now that I'm able to look at things in a different light. In my opinion it was gradual, it just took over. And yes, I have been on AD's for a long while, I have a lot of things going on, I am a caregiver of one very sick child and it is depressing but I always managed my depression, I have never once in my life not had enthusiasm for life, never.

I don't want to come across that I'm anti suboxone, I'm not. I am thankful for suboxone, It gave me time, time to think and figure things out in my life and I really needed to do that and I've done it. I don't want to stay on sub for no other reason than the fact the w/d's are too bad to stop. If not now when? This is the inevitable, I never planned to be a lifetime sub'er. When I started this and my dr asked me what my goal was for getting off I told him six months and he agreed that was a good time frame and it's been 18 months! The only reason it's been 18 months is because the w/d's to bad to stop.

A whole lot of people seem to fear if they come off sub's they may never be able to function normally again. I however am not a fear driven person and I don't recommend being a fear driven person, its a handicap. You would be very surprised to know the power of thought, it's more powerful than sub could ever be. You must believe and tell yourself that you can do this, it is crucial to your success. I'm not superhuman, I will suffer, I know I will. I have done it before, at day 5 the hopelessness became so overwhelming it broke me down mentally. I expect the same thing, the only difference between this quit and that one is my state of mind, it's all I have.

DAY 2 NIGHT: I can feel the w/d's setting in. I feel weighted down. I'm calmer than yesterday, I was very easily irritated yesterday. I feel as though it's the calm before the storm. My lower back is aching, my legs feel like jelly. I have been slurring my words a little and feeling a little loopy, only in phases and my stomach is beginning to rumble, not like hunger like I have an upset stomach coming on. That's all for now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:19 pm 
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Setmefree and Ginger have already given you some great advice. I really hope you will take to heart what they are trying to say to you. There are a handful of people on this board who really know what they are talking about and have a great gift of being able to put it into words. You are lucky enough to have had several of them provide a rather lengthy and detailed response to you on this thread and on others. While I hope that I too have at least a little bit of knowledge and experience with Suboxone and addiction, I am going to say right at the top that my writing is typically never thought of being as compassionate as many others here. I am a guy after all and getting "squishy" is not our strong suit. I will try my best, however.

I too have read many of your posts and my heart honestly does go out to you. You clearly have been through a lot and have a huge amount on your plate. Just having the children with special needs alone is a monumental task. In fact, take away the addiction issues and I think you still have more than plenty to deal with and potentially suffer depression from. I know that you seem to think that Suboxone is at the root of many, most, perhaps all of your problems - and it may very well play a role in them. From everything I have read, seen and experienced, I just really have to wonder if it is as simple as Suboxone causing all of these things. I know that you think it is, I just really fear that if you are able to get off the Suboxone, I think you may find that many of these same problems continue. I mean, it truly is a very long list, from not being able to go swimming to gaining weight. The thing is, while you certainly can point to Suboxone as a potential cause for many of these things, you can also point to a whole host of other causes as well - including depression. In fact, pretty much every symptom that you list is also a symptom of and indicator for depression. Perhaps worst of all, one of the common things that seems to happen when stopping Suboxone is in fact worsening depression. Stopping from the dose that you are on, from what I have seen happen to other Suboxone patients, you are pretty much setting yourself up for a worsening of some of your symptoms. Whether you want to believe it or not, you will also be setting yourself up for a relapse to traditional opiates. It would only make sense as your number one goal seems to be getting off of Suboxone and never going back on it again. It would only seem natural that you would then choose pretty much anything over and above Suboxone again - namely Oxy this or Hydro that. Anything would have to seem like a better idea than Suboxone at this point. If I am positive of anything, I am positive that this is not the case. Suboxone - even with side effects is superior to active addiction.

You have a very complex, difficult and detailed situation. It only stands to reason that it is going to take a complex, difficult and detailed plan to address it. I know that it must feel like you are trapped with no way out. Honestly, I think you will be able to find a way out. I really do think that you have what it takes to get your life back. I am just very afraid that the current plan is not going to get you to your goal and even more afraid that it may take you even farther in the wrong direction.

Just please give everything we are trying to say some consideration. And what then?????, you must be asking. Well, I think that you can come up with a plan that will get you closer to your stated goal, and I think that there will be some people here that can potentially help you with that - or at least lead you in the right direction, along with finding some addiction professionals in your area to help you. I just think that the first step will be getting you to consider changing your current course.

Regardless of what you do and what happens down the road, I hope you'll continue to post here with us and continue to hang in there. There really is a way out and I'm sure you'll be able to find it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:07 am 
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donh,
I really appreciate your honesty and concern. Thank you, that is the reason I'm here. Well, that and I think it's important for future quitters to learn from the experiences of others, the good the bad and the RLS!

I have been over it and over it, my life that is, over and over again. I ask myself, "wtf has changed? what happened?" I started thinking maybe it's the anti depressant I was taking so I immediately stopped it, felt lousy from the w/d of that for a week and it wore off and what was left? The same thing. There is no way I can get my life back together until I get the problem out of the way so I can see what's underneath it. I will definately have to endure severe depression during this attempt to quit cold turkey, I'm terrified if I haven't mentioned it. But I believe it's doable. Why the hell do all these sub drs tell us we will not have w/d from sub? Why do they do that? Why in the world did my dr tell me that a six month plan sounded great! How in the world could it be great? Six months isn't long enough to w/d from this drug if your tapering, so why did he say that? I am angry at the dr, not for giving me sub or anything like that just for not being more upfront about the side effects and w/d's. I'm also angry that it costs so much to get help but it's practically free to become addicted, I could go on all night, it's pointless now. I guess I'm turning this into a rant, I didn't mean to.

I'm going to continue to try to do this, if I do get mentally broken down beyond what I can tolerate or thoughts of suicide enter my head I will take the sub and start to taper down more gradually, which is what I had originally intended to do. But I have to give it a shot, I feel very strongly that I can do it. Once I'm off I will manage whatever problems I'm having until I can get back to what I use to be, if that person is still there. No worries, my husband is here with me he wouldn't let anything happen to me, he just doesn't understand this because he's never had an addiction problem in his life. He's a retired marine, when we met I was a deputy sheriff in the county where he was stationed, we were always the perfect couple. Andy's birth and our move to KY changed a lot of things, then there's this whole mess I've gotten myself into. It's just not reflective of who I am. Yes, I had a percocet problem, it grew and grew over the last few years but since I've been on sub I've been given the time I needed to learn how to function without it and I'm ready, I'm biting at the bit I'm so ready. Percocets or any narcotic drug is THE last thing I want to do. I want to be perfectly clean, no drugs at all. I want to experience life as me the uncut version. I miss the person I was, I was fun, I enjoyed life, all that is just a vague memory right now. I want it back. It feels so lost. I need to take my kids shopping for school clothes, normally that's my favorite thing to do, I haven't been to the mall in nearly a year now, I use to go twice a week, my daughter and I loved it. I just don't care, I literally don't care. I'll end up asking my husband to do it, I've been asking him to do any and everything involving the kids, I don't even take Andy to his appts anymore, husband does and he has to take our older son to his appts too, that use to be something that I always did. In fact I was rather controlling about it, I kept all the drs orders, wrote them on the dry erase board to keep everyone in check....its just all gone. That's what I mean when I say my whole family is suffering.
Sorry I'm so long winded tonight. Just trying to keep my mind off how I feel.

DAY 2 LATE NIGHT 60 hours into my quit.
uh, it's not so bad, of course it's 12:50 AM and I'm awake, which is not a good sign. Still having the same problems as earlier, legs like jelly, dizzy, backache, knee ache my stomach stopped hurting. I took ambien CR so hopefully I'll get tired and can sleep soon. Truthfully, this is nothing but the beginning signs that w/d is coming. I'm going to go lay in bed and hope I can have at least one more good nights sleep before the hell begins...(takes deep breath, exhales veeeeeery slowly) I can do this.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:23 am 
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beautifullybroken, here is what I don't understand about your plan.

If you read through the forum, as you said you have, you will find that almost all of the people here who've gotten off Sub successfully, and stayed off of it, are the ones who tapered down to a very low dose before stopping.

Yet you are choosing "hell" in your own words...WHY?

If you have the will to quit cold turkey, go thru w/d, and go thru PAWS...then you undoubtedly have the will to taper. And if you taper, you don't have to go through hell.

AND if your depression is directly caused by the Suboxone, I would think that as you get down to a lower dose you would start to see improvements - such as seeing your range of emotion returning.

Tapering would save you a lot of suffering and it would greatly reduce your risk of worsening your depression as you go through withdrawal and PAWS. I'm speaking from a place of personal experience, as someone who has suffered from depression for most of my adolescent and adult life and someone who tapered off Suboxone and has stayed off of it and other opiates for a year now. In that year I survived the loss of my father and countless other stresses and still managed to go off my antidepressants and maintain my mental health.

I read through your posts and I have to say that they are full of the recursive reasoning of a deeply depressed mind. I'm speaking from a place of compassion here, because I have been in that place myself. The logic of depression can convince us to see things from only one perspective and to latch onto a certain solution as being the only way. This is how people end up killing themselves. Many therapists and doctors over the years have told me NEVER to make a major life decision while in the midst of a severe depressive episode. And this is why. Your perspective is skewed, your reasoning is dysfunctional.

Now that you have been off Sub for 60-plus hours, your tolerance has probably gone down a bit. I REALLY REALLY STRONGLY encourage you to go back on at a lower dose, 1mg, 2mgs, whatever stabilizes you. There is no reason for you to traumatize your brain and body this way. There is a kinder, gentler way for you to get of this medication so you can really find out if it is causing your depression/anhedonia. And I'm not saying that's out of the question - but I strongly believe that you are going about finding out in the WORST WAY POSSIBLE.

I know that I'm coming off strongly here, possibly even harshly. It is only because I'm worried about you, and because I don't want to see you suffer needlessly. I will go out on a limb here and say that I think you might be right about your Suboxone dose contributing to your anhedonia. I think you might very well feel better off of Sub or on a much lower dose. When used as an antidepressant, bupe is prescribed at much smaller doses than it is for addiction. STILL, I don't think you are going about this the right way.

Obviously, you are going to do what you think you need to do. Just don't be stubborn. If it's not working, change your plan. We will be here to help either way.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:48 am 
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Hey Beautifullybroken,

Diary makes a good point. I’m still looking for a taper buddy, so why not join with me? I’m on 1.5mg for today and tomorrow and then 1mg after that. Give it some thought…

Jorono


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Thank you all for your support. I can't say enough how thankful I am that your all here, otherwise I would feel extremely alone in all of this and I'd probably think I was crazy for having such a hard time with w/d's, especially since my dr said there would be none.

Jack- you make great points, you have person experience and I can't argue with that. I can only say that although it does seem like a big leap to be trying this, I just have to, I have to try, if I don't make it, I will begin a taper and I will be referring to your diary a lot I'm sure.

Jorono- I hope your taper works out well, if this doesn't work for me I will be looking you up!

Day 4- wow, is it day 4? I keep questioning it for some reason. I expected to be reporting nothing short of a painful nightmare today, I thought for sure, considering how yesterday was ending that today the gates of hell would open and suck me in, that I would awake with demons at my bedside. Strangely, today is uneventful, I feel nothing. It actually scares me even more than yesterday when I was feeling like shit, for lack of better description. I know from reading so many many posts on w/d that suboxone has a way of being deceptive, allowing you some really normal moments before cripling you with the bad. But I'm really blown away that I have not one symptom today. My jelly legs that I've had since the evening of day 2 are gone, the dizziness too is gone. I still have the lower back pain but I can completely manage it with otc pain meds. It's weird. At this point I can only prepare myself for what tomorrow my bring, I know from past experience that day 5 was my breaking point. The only strange part is that last time I never had a moments relief from the mental agony and today, mentally I feel better than I have in over a year. I am prepared though, I'm not thinking for one second that this could possibly be this easy, that is just not heard of. But where are my w/d symptoms? I know the half life is gone, it's been four days. How could I feel the symptoms yesterday and they disappear today? If anyone knows please share. I'd like to know what to expect if possible.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:52 pm 
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I just wanted to add that I do have some symptoms of w/d, for instance my hair has been standing on ends since yesterday and also sneezing began yesterday, probably sneezed 5 times yesterday and same for today. Just wanted to add that, since I know they are common symptoms and I do have them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:25 pm 
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urghhhh....I feel like crap. Just to be informative.

Lets see, does crap have a definition? let me try.

Day 4 Evening/night:
It's like I crashed. I woke up feeling fine, feeling pretty ok, all things considered until about 8 p.m tonight. Now, my body aches, stomach upset, no appetite, shoulder's hurt well more like the entire area from shoulder to shoulder, lower back, mid back and my head is disconnected, like that commercial where the ballon head floats away from the body. Then there's the milder symptoms, sneezing, hair standing, chills. Yep you name it, I got it. Only symptom that has not attacked yet is the RLS, but there's always tonight. In fact I feel my calf muscles are much tighter than normal so we'll see.

So bizarre the way it comes and goes. If I feel better in the morning I'm going to be convinced my symptoms only persist in the late evening or night.

One thing I do want to add is that while it's bad right now, it's not bad enough that I'm miserable. I keep hoping against hope that because tomorrow IS day 5 I should be getting down to the nitty gritty of it, I just want to feel the full blown effect of w/d, just because I want to know how bad it will be. Right now, yes, I can handle it and this coming from someone who threw in the towel once before is good news. Importantly to know my mental state of mind is good, I do not feel the hopelessness. During my last quit the hopelessness screwed me up really bad. The only memory I have from my last attempt is being in my living room, crying uncontrollably, not from the pain, just the hopelessness. I remember thinking I have to take another pill, I can't do it, then giving in and taking the pill. I am taking ambien, have been taking ambien for several years before bed, so hopefully I will sleep, I hope! I have some meds that my husband takes for anxiety, something in the family of xanex, valium, that sorta thing but by a different name and I have klonopin, it hasn't come to that yet, but it's available.
Until tomorrow..nite


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:07 pm 
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DAY 5: Rough night last night. Husband had to move to my daughter's room due to my kicking the covers off and wallering around in bed. I was awoken at 3am with...yes, RLS!!! Since I couldn't sleep and hubby left me I grabbed my laptop and began researching RLS desperately looking for some kinda relief. I found a website that offered the advise of wrapping your legs in bandages, yes I did it :oops: , while wrapped I continued to read and found another treatment that was recommended for severe RLS was a T.E.N.S unit, and I thought, AMEN SISTA!!! I have a tens unit! Was prescribed a few years ago for my low back pain, so at 4 am I go hunting for it, finally found it stashed on my closet shelf. One website said put the electrodes or whatever they are on your calfs while one recommended putting them between your knee and buttocks, lol. So, since I had two prongs on each cord I put them in both places and turned up the juice! I felt relief within minutes. I left them on for one hour which was recommended by one website another recommended leaving them on all night. The sun was creeping up by the time my hour had passed, I turn off the power but left them connected in case it started up again. I woke at 12 p.m slept like a baby! Even today I have no more tightness which I had begun feeling yesterday evening. THANK YOU!! To whomever made that info available!!! I never would have slept. FYI, someone posted a site on how to make your own using a battery and some stuff available at local stores. Not that I could do it! My sister got the brains in my family, like my father she's an electrical engineer working for the government, she builds crap all the time. Maybe if you have someone in your family that could do it?
Today, I feel fine. I'm in a great mood. I'm hoping I've made it through the worst, still cautious though.

I can only contribute my determination and new state of mind for helping me get to the point that I knew I was ready. Just like any addiction in life the individual must be completely positive without doubt that they are ready and I had that on my side this time. One other thing, I have failed to mention that is new this time from last is Adderall, I've been taking it for two months. I have read several posts here on this forum of people believing it helped them overcome their w/d's. A lot of people did not believe that it was the case, that adderall could not only help with the lethargy, which for obvious reasons we know it should, but that it may also have the power to help with your mood. idk, I'm not a doctor. I just want to be honest about my w/d, and if you ask me, it's helped me maintain a good state of mind. I had no idea it could do that. I was only prescribed it for attention problems. So there you have it. Otherwise, I can't say I feel bad today, I feel good today. I have pain in my shoulders, it just started yesterday, I seem to have stopped sneezing and no cold chills today or hair standing on ends. Still no appetite though, my adderall carries some blame for that as well. So overall, if this is it, which I sure hope it is, I'm shocked, excited and if I could do cartwheels I would!! I have no cravings for opiates, at least not yet, I know because I'm an addict I must always always keep my guard up. Luckily I don't have addict friends to tempt me, so hopefully I will be ok from here on out. I HOPE!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:51 pm 
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Day 5: I'm just glad it's over. Not that I've had any problems, I'm just glad it's over because I worried so much for so long about this day that it's nice to see it coming to an end. I think I feared the possibility that maybe my w/d's wouldn't begin until now, even though that's by far what the evidence shows, I just can't figure out why I'm not having a harder time and thinking maybe I just need to stop questioning it before I do start having a harder time. It's just it wouldn't seem odd if I hadn't had such a horrible time before.
I can feel the muscles in my legs tightening up so I will probably be woken up again tonight, but I will prepare by putting my t.e.n.s unit into place so I don't have to get up and I can just turn it on and I guess lay their till the misery stops.
I really don't have much to add today, I've been ok. Same tense feeling in my shoulders and my lower back still hurts, haven't had the sneezing, some chills but my head hasn't been feeling like it was going to float away. I think my stomach would be upset if I was eating but I haven't been able to eat since day two so I don't know. Mostly I'm good. Mentally, I'm fine. I have no energy at all whatsoever but I think it's probably from not eating, my body has nothing to draw energy from. Every time I stand up everything goes black and I have to immediately sit back down and wait a moment but again, probably from not eating. I haven't left my house since this started, I don't think I've walked outside, I just don't feel I have the energy and I can't face the sun.
I hope tomorrow is better, I'm just ready to put this part of my life behind me....soon :)


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Beautifullybroken--Good for you for making this jump. Hold on tight, because if it was anything like what I went through, your going to hit some rough spots, but, the one thing I can tell that you have that I had/have too, is the pure determination.

I jumped off Subs cold turkey as well. Was on anywhere from 8mg-16mg, depending on the day. Day five to 10 were the worst, didn't start to feel even "ok" until day 16, and now, almost 8 weeks off Suboxone, I have a few lingering symptoms, but NOTHING compared to what I went through initially. Two weeks after I jumped off Subs, I stopped my Cymbalta as well. Since getting off the Subs, up until today, I took no medications except for Tylenol. I continued to go to work (even though that was extremely painful at times!) and took care of my three small kids (5yrs, 3yrs, and 1yr), cooked, cleaned, etc, etc.

I see that you too are being told that this is the wrong way to get off Suboxone. I was told the same as well. Honestly, only we know OURSELVES better than anyone else. Also, I feel like when an addict gets serious about getting better, THEY ARE SERIOUS. I was serious about getting off the Suboxone, and looks like you are too. And from all the stories I have read and heard, I don't think anyone knows the right way to get off Suboxone (the right way and trying to avoid withdrawal). I do not support getting off Suboxone cold turkey, I don't know if I support anyway of getting off of it. But now that you have done what you have already done, I am totally here to support your growth and road to recovery!

If you need anything, let me know. YOU CAN DO THIS. --Sarah


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Thank you Sarah! your kind words are much needed today!
I don't understand what's happening here, I've been a member of so many many forums I have never been treated so badly, specifically during such a hard time. I mean can you imagine a harder thing than going through an intense w/d? Instead of being kind and understanding I'm being followed around and any comment is either being removed or reprimanded and I don't think I've done anything to deserve it, nothing. Certainly, nothing compared to some of the post I've read that are still here today.
What is the deal? It specifically came to my attention when one of them stated, "just because we don't agree with what your doing doesn't give you the right..." and I'm thinking what? Who said you have to agree to support?? Now, I realize that most of the people here most likely still visit my post just to check to see if I will fail so they can LOL or something. Not at ALL what I expected. Not at ALL. I think this forum could be great. There's so much good information and personal experience. Where does the idea come from that everyone must agree with medications?? I have never heard of such a thing. What makes this one any different? It's a medication, we are all going to be effected differently, if this forum has done nothing else it has proven that.
Honestly, I don't think it's fair for the newcomers. They aren't aware they can't speak their minds, most forums are for just that, speaking your mind on the subject at hand. That doesn't have to mean debating it. In fact not debating it just means that, don't debate with someone else, that alone doesn't even mean you can't say horrible things about it, just means you can't debate it, but how many posts here have you read that do JUST THAT?

Frankly, I don't give a s**t what other people think of me, I never have so maybe that's why I'm so shocked to find a group of people so ready to snap at the first person who characterizes suboxone as possibly not fulfilling their life's dreams. WHO CARES, live and let live! It's not an attack against you, it's just the way they feel.

oy...I just want to get through this. I'm pretty torn between doing what everyone else does that they attacked and leaving the forum or waiting till I"m done with my w/d documentation for the others who may come, so they can see that cold turkey is not always a horrible decision and it's very doable. I just hate it has to be this way. Maybe a new forum will come up with the same formating so it's just as easy to search. I'm sure as more and more people are using suboxone it's soon to come.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Beautifullybroken--I'm sorry you are having a hard time here. I have not had any problems like that. I would ignore whatever is bothering you and keep posting updates. Honestly, I would be more worked up about how I'm going to survive the next day going through withdrawal than worried about what others think of me. Keep doing what you are doing. You can make it. People have done what you are doing. I have. Just keep focused on your goal. One day at a time. Take care, Sarah


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Thanks again!
I'm having a really, really, really horrible day. It's just all this mental bs. It must have something to do with me not sleeping last night. It must. This, Day 6 is the worst it's been mentally. Physically I'm fine, I still have tight muscles but no big deal, it's just mentally killing me, today is the first day I just broke down. I've been feeling it all day and fighting it back with all my power trying to remind myself I must be strong for my kids, they have no idea wtf is wrong with me so I can't fall apart but as soon as the bathroom door closed I didn't think I could stop crying. I feel the pain I've been covering up so many years, everything from my son's profound condition, the lengthy three year lawsuit we went through with the government as a result of that, the mistakes we made following it, to the simple fact I allowed this addiction to ever happen to me. I'm so mad! I just want my life back. I know this will pass, I know it will. And for as bad as I feel emotionally it's not nearly as bad as the first quit, so I will try to find comfort in that. Oh the mind games. Wow. Hating Day 6.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Hi beautifully broken.....

Ok......I have kept up with all your post....over a year ago I researched suboxone and found this website and recived a lot of support here. Basically I made my decision to go on suboxone after spending an entire weekend reading Dr J's blog and hundreds of post. I read the good and the bad but I was spending several hundred dollars a day buying drugs on the street because I was almost out of doctors to write me scripts (very close to getting caught Doctor shopping)....besides being a drug addict I am also an alcoholic and former law enforcement. I have lost a lot in my life......

Over a year ago I decided to go on suboxone and of course like some of the post I read.... my doctor was clueless about sub and I relied on this site to educate me. In the last year I have seen many people come and go.....just like in AA but I have been grateful to some of the people on here that have helped me when I needed it. There are some suggestions or ideas that I may totally disagree with but just like AA I take what I can use and leave the rest.

So it is fair to say you have experienced some negativity here and I know this will shock you but I have found myself "repeatedly warned" before because I didn't follow the rules......yes rules.....just like jobs, treatement, AA...etc...they have rules on here. What I hate is when someone comes along that has something of value to say disappears because they didn't follow the rules....I use this forum as part of my recovery and sometimes I may want to say something or debate a point but I now proceed with caution because I do like it here...there are some really good people here......and believe me most of us know we are addicts....junkies...or whatever because we get treated like it at Pharmacies and the like.

The decision you made is yours and yours only. I am very interested becasue I want to read your updates....see what your going through....ideas that are given or shared......trust me I went 4 days without sub due to theft and somehow I am going to get one of those T.E.N.S. (Thank you....great idea). Getting baited........or baiting someone about this rule or debate or choice of words is taking away from the true value you are giving to so many of us that are too afraid to do what you are doing....I will tell you that some of the people on here have true concern for what your putting your body through and the support they may be offering can seem to be disingenuene(oops spelling) or questioning your choices.....I don't think they are personal. Again I applaud your choice and I truly hope this works for you......believe me I have seen it happen when we get DETERMINED we can do anything. Unfortunately this addict and alcoholic isn't ready. I really hope you stick around and focus on telling us how you feel and what steps you are taking to make yourself feel better.....if that is possible...(to feel better at that moment)...so many times words written are taken in the wrong way...

I wish you the best and I will add you to my prayers because I can only imagine the strength you need to do this and I hope you keep sharing your experience and let all that other negative shit not cloud what you have to offer to the forum.
Best of luck....

Jim


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:00 pm 
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Thank you so much Jim, your words mean a lot to me.

Obviously, a couple of people at least did not like some advise that I gave to a newcomer, but that was no reason to put the thread under the "anger" topic. I know when I'm being provoked.

Having said that, your absolutely right. I should not and I do know better than to get my feathers ruffled so easily, I can only look to my current situation as a defense for my irritability. I'm honestly a very mellow person, at home I'm the parent the kids want to ask for something (as son asks for keys to car and I just said hell no get a job!), lol. As you've probably read, I've been on subs for 18 months, in that 18 months I have been to this site often. Mostly when a side effect showed up that I didn't understand to research if someone else may have experienced similar problems and things of that nature and I know exactly what you mean about people disappearing and I will not disappear. Not until this is over anyway. I honestly don't think I will return as a member after this experience, to be honest with you, I think I will look to another support group to maintain my sobriety and offer support.

Referencing your statement about words being taken the wrong way, so true, so very true. The downfall of not being in a literal group is the lack of expression and eye contact that we really need to truly be in touch with someone and fully comprehend the intention of their words and what they are really feeling. This is very impersonal although helpful nonetheless.

I was never upset about the advise anyone gave me on this thread, I tried to thank everyone for all their opinions. It's not that I didn't want to take their advise it's just that when it comes to withdrawal from suboxone, we all have a whole lot to learn, nobody knows what will work for anyone else, unfortunately, because it would be great to come here and get the advise, do what your told and be perfect again. My decision to go cold turkey was the result of a lot of research, I think it's best to just support people, as the saying goes, "you can't stop a woman when she's out of control" :lol:

I'm taking your advise. I'm going to try very hard from this point forward to not allow anything to bother me and remember what I'm here for.

As far as you go, It sounds like everything is going great! That's refreshing to hear. I'd really love to talk to you a about your previous alcohol addiction. My husband, although he would deny this statement, drinks too much. His drinking problem coincided with my opiate abuse, we were both hiding under the shield substance abuse, trying to protect ourselves, a lot of good that does, yeaaaahhhh. Anyway, I don't know what to do about it. I'm fighting my ass off to get my life back and he's in limbo. It worries me, I've been in a marriage before, with my oldest son's Father that was doomed from the moment when I quit doing our doc at the time but he refused to stop being a midnight toker, lol. But seriously, not a major drug but I was done with it, I had a son and he wouldn't quit so I was out the door, that's the way I am, so now that this situation is showing it's ugly teeth I' often find myself irritated that he can't find the strength. The worst part, is that when we argue about his drinking he often accuses me of being a drug addict because of the suboxone. I know he is only trying to defend himself, so while I try not to let it bother me, it's one of the more motivating reasons behind my quit. I can't stand to be called a drug addict after going through so much to get to where I was. But I was wondering, do you have any advise for me? or is it just pointless until someone makes up their own mind? He has gone to meetings before, I don't think he enjoys it.
If you have any words of wisdom I'm all ears. My husband and I have a really hard time facing some of challenges in our lives, I don't want to paint him in a negative way, we've both done our fair share of screwing up our lives but it's time to pull our family out of the ditch and get back on the road!
Well, great talking to you, I'll keep updating!


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