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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:59 am 
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Hey Everyone,

I am looking for a little advice here... I have been on Sub for right about 4 months now and am planning on quiting as soon as possible. I go to NA meetings once or twice a week, talk with family and friends, and I finally feel that I am in the right state of mind to quit. I know that I will never go back to my drug of choice and I just want a life free chemicals all together. Another huge factor is that i'm leaving the country with my girlfriend on May 9th to do some traveling through Central America for 2 months. We have been talking about this for a really long time and I want to be "Sub Free" for the trip. I have traveled this area of the world before and am comfortable there, so it won't be something too drastic right after stopping the Sub. If anything, I am looking at it like a little vacation and a reward for finally getting clean.

But my question is this...Would you quit "cold turkey" or do a slow taper??

I have been trying to come up with the pros and cons of each, and I am stuck...

Ever since I started the Sub I just figured I would do a slow taper off of it to make a soft landing, but I have been reading a lot lately about people doing it cold turkey. Do you think this is a good idea since I have been on the Sub for only 4 Months? I average 3-4 mgs a day..Sometimes I take as little as 1 MG, it just depends how I feel..

With the cold turkey, it would be Hell up front, but would be over sooner. With the slow taper, the symptoms won't be as strong, but it will be prolonged. The more I learn about opiates, the more I feel like your damned if you do, damned if you don't, and you just have to find the way that works for you to get yourself clean.

I have been eating lots of fruits and veg's, sleeping good, keeping the salt intake down, and I bought a ton of supplements and vitamins that I have learned about over my years of drugs abuse..I want to quite as soon as I can because I want to allow time for the withdrawal, as well as the PAWS, so that I can be clean and feeling good by the time I hop on that plane.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. I wish all of you the best of luck no matter where you are in this journey.

Peace.

J


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Honestly IF i were you AND i knew what i know now, i would try to quit "cold turkey" and see what happens. You haven't been at it that long, you're experienced with withdrawals, you have a good attitude and you're eating good. So if it don't work out then you can do a taper instead. But you know we're all different and there's always the possibility of being pleasantly surprised.

The only reservations i'd have are from knowing how strong 1mg of Sub is, and how i cope, (or don't cope), with withdrawals and life stresses. You're taking up to 4mg "depending how you feel" which means you're using the Sub to cope... with withdrawal symptoms or subjective stresses or both, i don't know, but it's maybe a good question to ask yourself.

You might investigate the liquid taper/cigarette filter methods if you haven't already, because it's possible at your level you could do it quicker than those of us at five years and 16mgs. Attitude has a LOT to do with it, and you have a great one. It sounds like you might be into exercise (or physical activity anyway), and that should also help a lot.

Can you take the Sub with you to S. America without worrying it gets taken away from you? Or is that beside the point because you're set on not taking it with you?

- joe


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:11 am 
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HurtFace wrote:
Hey Everyone,
I know that I will never go back to my drug of choice and I just want a life free chemicals all together.
J


I would say that you are foolin yourself if you think this is true. Or at the very least, you are seriously underestimating the nature of addiction.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:12 am 
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Please, Please believe me when I concur with the last post and say that there is no way of KNOWING you would never go back to your drug of choice especially not if it is an opiate. I don't intend to burst your bubble and we ARE all different. This is also very serious and it is concerning to me when you are so confident of your long term sobriety. The statistics suggest none of us should be confident about anything except a life long struggle with addiction to one extent or the other.

The following is true based on my experience alone and these are my opinions based on my experience alone. I went cold turkey. The physical withdrawals are one thing and if that was all you were facing I would say go cold turkey w/ a script for ativan, clonidine, immodium, and a couple others. BUT....it isn't the physical that is the worst problem. It is really the PAWS. We all know what to expect when it comes to the physical for the most part and for how long that is expected to last which is between 2 and 6 weeks. PAWS can last 6 months to 2 years. A bit broader spectrum really. I definitely wouldn't leave the country immediately after because the PAWS is awful. I am afraid you might be miserable. I would give myself at least 3-4 months off of it before leaving the country so I could get to a doctor if I had a hard time. I really hope you aren't thinking that you will use the trip as a means to ensure you don't use or go back on the suboxone or just to be on the safe side since you won't have access to anything and will have to push through. The duration of the fatigue is incredible and the mood swings horrible. I think the good diet and exercise would certainly help, but it doesn't make it go away or people would have figured it out by now and there really wouldn't be PAWS.

It is true that with PAWS there are good days and bad days but even the good days aren't great and the bad days are desperate. The LAST place I would want to be with PAWS is out of town, let alone out of the country.

So.....clearly my opinion is that you should NOT go cold turkey AND leave on vacation soon after. Safe to say that combo is unpredictable and could be disaster and a waste of money and vacation time.

Oh..and I just got back on suboxone after 3 months off it so cold turkey probably isn't a good idea either. The docs recommend slow taper. I am curious if there is any difference with PAWS with slow taper versus cold turkey though.

Just my opinion.

Cherie


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 Post subject: Thanks.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:11 am 
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Hey, thanks to all of you for replying. I have been reading this forum for quite a while now and have come familiar with a few of your threads, so I thank some of the veterans for replying as well.

You brought up a really good point that I didn't think about. I said it "depends how I feel" when talking about how much Sub I take per day. That's a huge red flag and I really appreciate you pointing that out. I didn't even think about it when I said it. I guess when I was thinking that I was just thinking about my withdrawals, like I always drink a cup of coffee at work in the morning and it kinda stirs up my withdrawals, and I ususally take a tiny bit of Sub. I think that I really need to address this activity and get out of the "routine" of taking it when I feel "bad".

Diary of Quitter is right as well, you should never underestimate the power of addiction. This power has amazed me for a long time now and i've seen myself and a few good friends of mine go through it as well. The PAWS worries me a good deal, because I know I can deal with the physical aspect of withdrawals, but the reason I couldn't stop what I was doing before was because of the PAWS. Psycologically, I don't know if I have had enough time on the sub/off my drug of choice to tredge through the PAWS without the possibility of problems.

I am still debating whether or not to do this cold turkey or not. I feel that I haven't been on it very long and that is an "advantage" and "disadvantage" in some ways. With regards to the trip, when my girlfriend and I got together she didn't know about my problem with addiction and I began to make a lot of plans and promises about traveling with her. I graduated college 1.5 years ago and she just graduated, so we're pretty young and both love to travel and that's what brought us together the most. I still have lots and lots of Sub left because I have been taking so little of it that I would have some in Central America if I really needed it.

Let me know if their are any other opinions out there. I certainly don't claim to know everything, i'm just looking for some opinions. I have gone through the last 3 years of addiction alone (for the most part), so it's nice to hear what other people have to say.

Good luck, everybody.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Opiate addiction is a devious, sneaky and powerfully seductive disease. It's difficult [impossible for many] to put our doc on the shelf and leave it there.

That being said, if you are young, strong and determined... anything is possible. I've been an addict for nearly 40 yrs but I've had more than one long periods of rewarding recovery thru abstinence. One lasted 7.5 yrs and was the best time of my life. I wouldn't trade that for anything, including all the good that has happened while on suboxone/methadone. At the time, I did volunteer peer counseling for an in-patient drug program and had a lot of other support systems in place.

As hard as it will be... [based on the limited info you've provided] I say give it a shot. You are still early in the game and you may just find something else to replace your addiction. For me... when I was younger... it was education, career, golf, and family. not necessarily in that order. These were more important to me than drugs.

There are risks involved with coming off subs including going back to opiates and it being ten times worse than before. This could mean loss of freedom, important relationship[s], financial security, and even your life. On the other side it could mean freedom like you had before drugs. Liberty [in one form or another] is what we all seek.

Regarding CT vs Taper... taper is usually better especially if you have plenty of time.


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 Post subject: Re: Thanks.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:30 pm 
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HurtFace wrote:
With regards to the trip, when my girlfriend and I got together she didn't know about my problem with addiction and I began to make a lot of plans and promises about traveling with her.

I hope it doesn't sound smarmy but if you love her then maybe the best promise you could make her is that you will always take care of yourself. That's a prerequisite for properly taking care of her, or anyone else.

For instance she'll probably have a much more enjoyable trip if her boyfriend isn't irritable or something much worse, and she knows he won't be. If i were her i'd much rather be promised a healthy happy traveling companion than someone who is medication free on some sort of principle.

That said, i still think you're in a great position to at least see what happens if you jump off now. You've got all the things going for you and you have a safety net. If your resolve is true and it doesn't hurt too bad, then you won't use the net because you won't want to. If that's not the case, there's no shame in it.

JMHO

- joe

Whoops, edit for clarity... all ^that opinion is predicated on your resolve in the first place to stay clear of your DOC. I was away from mine for a very long time, and didn't enjoy it when i got an accidental 'vacation' so i've sorta forgotten what it is to crave.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:07 pm 
Hi HurtFace and welcome! You've been given some good replies to think about....I'll add mine.
Congrats on your recovery thus far! It sounds like you've got some good habits in place and you've done some work in your recovery aside from taking Suboxone. As you know, Suboxone is not the answer to our addiction. Rather it is one among many tools we may utilize in getting better.
I've been on Suboxone for a little over 8 months. It's been a Godsend to me. I tried abstinence-based recovery for several months. I white-knuckled it through cold-turkey withdrawal from a pretty big opiate habit - I was taking anywhere from 60mg of hydrocodone or oxycodone orally (on a light day) to several hundred milligrams of IV Demerol and/or several 100 mcg of IV Fentanyl on top of the oral hydro or oxy (on a heavy day.) I was very, very sick with withdrawal, had no idea what I was in for during detox. I survived it at home with zero comfort meds and extremely minimal support (only my husband knew and was not real supportive.) I cannot tell you how bad it was....but the point is, I survived. I thought that would be the end of it. I am strong, smart, a good person with a good life, I thought.....now that I'm off the stuff, I'll go back to the way I was before and all will be okay. WRONG - I had no idea what PAWS was about. I could not get out from under the dark cloud of it.....could barely get motivated enough to get up and get dressed.
Granted - this was withdrawal from full-agonists. I understand there are differences between that w/d and the w/d from bupe. However, from what I have learned from the experiences of others - if you don't do a long, slow taper, withdrawal from a relatively high dose of bupe is going to be almost as bad. I'm sorry but I cannot imagine you being ready for an extended trip out of the country by May if you cold-turkey from bupe right now. Yes, the acute phase of w/d will be over but I fear PAWS symptoms will either steal the joy of the trip or worse yet, lead to relapse. I don't wish either for you. I'm sure you don't either.
Another thing to think about.....When I was at the 4-month point with my Suboxone treatment, I was right around where you are...taking around 4mg/day. I got very confident - I was feeling good and had no trouble dropping my dose to that point. I went ahead and tried reducing my dose further and began to run into problems. I started having some cravings for opiates. I found out that I was not as prepared to face life's stressors without meds quite yet. So I've had to slow down and begin to take cues from my body and gauge dose reductions much more carefully. So I would encourage you that although you feel and sound very confident right now and that is great...you may not be quite ready to make a jump from Sub quite yet. You wouldn't be the first one to confidentally do that and live to regret it.
All that said....I'll give you my best advice (it's what I'm doing now with the blessing of my doctor.) I'm not a doctor or an expert, but here goes....Discuss your plans with your doctor because if you do decide to jump off Sub you're going to probably need some comfort meds. In my opinion, you are on way too high a dose to quit cold-turkey.....there is very little chance that you won't be absolutely miserable (not being a downer, just aware of the science of the medication.) What I would suggest is to begin a more methodical taper and see how you respond. Perhaps start with a level dose of 2mg/day for a week or two and see how you feel. If you're doing fine, reduce your dose again. If you run into difficulty along the way, you'll know that you need much more time with your taper. I can't see you being off the Sub and feeling good in time for your trip, but if you want to try it.....I wish you the best of luck!
Think about changing your mindset to just having a goal of steady dose reductions, enjoying your trip with your girlfriend, and just reevaluate along the way. The last thing you want to do is set yourself up for failure (relapse.) So in a nutshell....slow down and continue to think long and hard and seek sound advice before doing anything drastic.
Best of luck whichever way you choose to go and know you have our support!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Hurtface: You have some great replies to think about.


I have been on suboxone for almost 9 months now, and I was in active addiction for 10+ years. Suboxone has really given me my life back with the right choices and support.
Without preaching....I know I thought the same thing a while back but I was wrong. I will save you the reading but I do want to say that it is nothing to be ashamed of for being on Suboxone/Subutex. I understand why you rather be completely chemical free and only having a rather short 'active addiction' might let you think that it should be easier. It MAY, but it probably won't be so easy. Don't let that scare you, if you feel you can give it a shot and do well, good luck to you!! If you have to use suboxone as a tool with your support for a while longer, don't worry about it either. Just stay away from active addiction and focus on recovery and living life. Really, best of luck to you!

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"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:53 pm 
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I just have to say one more thing. I think a lot of us had secret addictions from our partners or they didn't know what we were doing. For myself, I kept my addiction a secret from my straighto potato husband for fear he wouldn't understand. That fear kept me in active addiction far longer than I probably had to be. I went on suboxone without him knowing. I finally told him in therapy because we were supposed to get married and there was NO WAY I could rope the poor guy into marrying me without knowing what he was getting into. I told him and explained I would cancel the invitations and would explain and would take care of everything financially if he wanted out of the relationship. He didn't leave.

Then, after I got off the sub and was struggling, I knew I could be truthful with my husband and I DID talk to him about what a hard time I was having. I was honest with him about abusing my painkillers from surgery, etc. etc.

My point is that although your girlfriend didn't know what she was getting into, you will never know that she doesn't want you to be on it unless you confide and trust in her enough to discuss it. I get the sense you may feel some pressure because you feel bad about putting her in this position and you of course want to be non-dependent for her which would potentially ease any concerns she may have and may decrease any guilt you could feel since she was unaware.

I could also be totally projecting but on the off chance we experienced any of the same....

You could both grow exponentially from you really talking to her about where you are at, how you feel, including any guilt that she didn't know about the addiction, etc. etc. etc. It may also give her a chance to express any concerns she may have and for you to clarify any misconceptions she may have about the suboxone or addiction. For me being truly honest and talking to my partner actually ended up giving him a sense of greater control and I learned how committed he was to me good, bad, and the ugly. My assumptions which led to my prior fears were actually unfair to him as I was assuming the worst of him and not the best. It was like 2 wrongs against him instead of one.

I'm not even sure I am making sense.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:27 pm 
I think you are making sense. I mentioned in my prior post about my detox that my husband was not real supportive - well, the truth is I don't blame him - He was shellshocked!! He had no clue that I was addicted...no clue I was diverting meds at work...no clue I had just lost my job over it....no clue that I had jeopardized our lives as we had known them. Of course he was upset and had to go through some stuff himself before he could be supportive of my recovery. He did the best he could at the time.....got worse (completely unsupportive for a while right after I started Sub)....now, thankfully, I have his full support. What I"m getting at is that I should have trusted him with this before it reached fever-pitch. I did not give him the benefit of the doubt even after 15 years of marriage and one hell of a history together.....and I paid a price for it.
So yes, Jackcrack, I hear ya - It's important to be honest with the ones who love us the most....you might be pleasantly surprised at the support you receive....and what a relief to no longer have to live a lie!!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:43 pm 
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Jackcrack wrote:
I'm not even sure I am making sense.

Sure you are. I was thinking to say much the same but i've already said plenty.

I get the feeling like maybe he's feeling a bit cornered over promises he made. And if i go out on a limb of speculation i might suspect he's much like me and wants his stories to turn out the way he told them, like with the Sub-free vacation rewardy thing. It's good to keep one's word but i think the bigger responsibility is to be real and true to what is, then your words and promises are good even if they change, ya know?

Of course now we both might be projecting on his topic. :wink: Maybe we should open an online shrink service, tell people exactly what's on their minds.

- joe


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:26 am 
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LMAO!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:56 am 
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Hey, thanks again. Yeah you're both actually RIGHT ON..have you ever though about relationship counseling?? It might be a good career choice! Ha.

I have felt a lot of guilt ever since my secret came out. I just couldn't keep it away from her anymore. We were getting closer and closer, and once we moved in together it HAD to come out. Plus, she would of found out one way or another anyway. I just want to keep my promises. I feel like I have lied, cheated, and stole my way through the last 3 years and now that i've finally found something great, I really want to follow through.

The thing is she is "pretty" supportive. The poor girl has been through a lot with regards to addiction ( her dad is an alcoholic, and her brother is actually addicted to Heroin and goes to the clinic everyday). So she is no stranger to this type of thing, but in a way that has made her hate the disease of addiction even more and has made her less supportive. I understand why...I think. We've had quite a few open discussions about my Suboxone, as it comes up pretty much everyday. She says if you "really wanted to stop you would". This is pretty standard and i'm sure a lot of you all have heard this at one point or another. It sounds reasonable, but it's a lot harder than that, as well all know! A lot of us do want to stop, but it's not that easy. Other than this occasional comment, she's been supportive...

I know there's no shame in staying on the Sub if it's helping me. And it definitely has, but i'm going to give it a shot and see if I can get off of it. I am mentally ready and I have my support system in place. Since Sunday (it's Weds.) I have taken .5 mgs a day to kinda do a quick taper down before going cold turkey. Starting Tomorrow I am going to go cold turkey and just see how I feel. I have been through this hell many many times, but it's always intimidating... I'm taking the weekend to just chill. I have my liquids, my vitamins, my immodium, my Withdrawal-Ease supplements (www.withdrawal-ease.com). Which by the way have helped out a lot! I was really skeptical, but the night time supplement really knocks you out and leaves you feeling pretty good the next morning.. I don't really like the day time stuff because I feel like it stirs up a lot stuff and makes me actually withdrawal more. It's like taking in a bunch of caffeine, even though there isn't any in it. My body jsut freaks out on all those different Herbs at once....But if you feel like swinging the 80 bucks, i think it's a worthwhile purchase. I can give you a more accurate review of that once I go cold turkey, because I have taken it with some Sub. still in my body...

I'm really glad I found this board. Thanks again and good luck to everyone..


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:30 am 
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Just wanna say goodluck on the cold turkey :) .If your body is ready you will be fine,if not just jump back on the lowest dose that works for you.....I hope it all goes well take care and keep us posted :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:07 pm 
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I completely understand your desire to do it and support you in giving it a shot but I also support you getting back on it if you need to.

My husband was the same way throughout. He was supportive while on the suboxone but he would say the same types of things your girlfriend is saying and mostly that is what I heard. He did want me off of it. Then.....when I went off of it and the withdrawal was bad and PAWS worse he started trying to help me. He found this forum when I was incapable of doing anything but laying on the couch and groaning and stretching and wiggling, and yawning,....AND sneezing :lol:

It was the first time I ever REALLY opened up and was vulnerable with him about my insecurities of going to the ER for help with it to insecurities about an inability to stop to a million other things. We both ended up researching for the past month and a half or so and he is TOTALLY supportive now. I think it is because I opened up and told him how important his opinions were and his feelings. It is like HE finally had a choice in the matter and some control. Once he was better educated and had some control, it freed him up to think of what was best for ME. He also realized how scared he was of my addiction and that the suboxone made HIM feel safer and more secure. So we both made the choice for me to go back on it and I feel like we have grown a lot closer in this process. I feel like he shed some of his animosity and resentments about it and took some of those resentments off of me and put them onto the addiction.

I say this because IF you get to a point and you start to change your mind or you just can't do it, there is quite possibly a way for you to get back on it and not feel so guilty and for your partner not to feel so scared and resentful. It could bring you closer and if it doesn't and she still isn't supportive (I doubt it) then it probably isn't a healthy relationship for either one of you.

Good luck and let us know how it goes. I am pulling for you and wish you the VERY best. I will be thinking of you in the days to come. You poor man.

Cherie


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 Post subject: 36 Hours In...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:49 am 
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Hey Everyone,

It's time to check in. It has been 36 hours since my last dose of suboxone (~.5mg of sub Weds. night before I went to bed) and i'm feeling OK. I know that due to the half life, I am still very early on in my withdrawals, but I definitely feel it. Yesterday I did great until about 2 in the afternoon when I broke and made an appointment with my family Doc. to get some comfort meds. I didn't think I was going to do this, but I am really glad I did. Lol I ran to Doc kicking and screaming immediately after my first withdrawal symptoms. I thought I could have made it a little longer at least...oh well, fuck it. I haven't been taking much Sub at all since this past Sunday. I had been averaging 2-4 MGs a day over the last few weeks but from Sunday to Weds I was taking between .5 and 1 mg a day. So I figure I should be going through some withdrawals anyway. If anything, from the taper itself. But now that I have been without sub for 36 hours it has really started to settle in.

At the doctor yesterday, I got a 4 pack of Colonidine (sp?) patches (Catapress TTS-3 .3 Mgs, the strongest you can get) and 60 Diazepam. I put the patch on yesterday evening about 6 PM to start easing some of the WD's. I also took two Diazepam..I am a little nervous taking any type of Benzo's at this point in my recovery. I have always had a problem with them as well, but only when I couldnt get Oxy's. But I think i'll be ok as long as I only take them if I really need them and because they have a longer half life than Xanax and the K-pins (but wasn't Sub supposed to have a longer half life and therefore make our withdrawals easier? hmmm this sounds familiar, but there may be truth in this after all...its still very early...We will see, but so far the combination of the two meds has been helping a good bit.

I will say this..If I was withdrawing from Oxy right now I would be feeling a HELL of a lot worse. So for that, I am grateful. I am just really apprehensive about the next 48 hours. I am taking the entire weekend off from my social life and just focusing on feeling good.

As for yesterday, I felt pretty good and was actually tired when I went to bed. I fell asleep watching Where the Wild Things Are with my girlfriend and finally went to bed about 12:45. My sleep was very restless and unfulfilling, to say the least. I woke up drenched in sweat. My hair felt like I just got out the shower, so I went to the bathroom and wiped myself off. This happened one more time before morning. I'm definitely washing those sheets tonight, holy shit.

This morning I woke up for work @ 7:15 AM just like every other day. This morning I felt pretty bad, but I have noticed through my drug habit and battle with withdrawals I have always felt the worst in the morning. Does anyone else feel like this? I guess its because you have gone so long without putting anything into your body..which totally makes sense.

One thing that I played around with a little yesterday and today was that I tried not to think about it. This may sound obvious and a dumbshit comment, but try to think about anything else. Think about the interests you do have (music, girls, guys, snowboarding, curling, cockfighting, whatever..) It's really hard to do, but it really makes me feel better. I know exercise is the next step for me, and once i get at least SOME energy, i'm going to start running again. I know that this is extremely important.

Well that's where i'm at guys...36 Hours in.. I still have 5 more hours at work and i'm just trying to take it slow and not try to look too far ahead. I find if i look to far ahead, whether it be with recovery time, work, or with anything, time just creeps by and it causes anxiety for me. It just seems so daunting...but i'm trying to focus on the here and now, and right now, at this very second, i feel OK...

Have a good day everyone.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:03 pm 
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Thanks for checking in. I am glad you did. I am also glad you are doing ok. Be careful with the benzo's but in my opinion you will need them. Spread them out as you will need them longer than you think. If you feel like the benzo's are becoming or might become a problem, neurontin worked for my anxiety pretty well and you could ask for that. It also helped me to sleep. Did you get anything for restless leg?

You are smart because you will have the weekend to withdraw without having to worry about week. But keep in mind you may not be in any shape to work on Monday or Tuesday as most people seem to feel like day 4-5 are the worst. I don't know what kind of work you do but I was extremely grateful for a private office where I could SLEEP and ignore my job periodically.

Also, I complained incessantly when I went off it and then worried about impacting my friends and husband. Feel free to PM and complain to me. I am more than happy to listen and seeing as I just went through this it is pretty fresh.

Take Care of yourself and I wish for you .....good sleep.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Hi Everyone, and JackCrack.. Thanks for your message. I started to PM you, but figured I would post here for everyone to read.

Well it is officially day 4 without Suboxone. At midnight tonight it will have officially been four days. And you know what, although I have felt achey and really weak, it hasn't been all that bad. The Clonidine is helping tremendously and I take the Valium periodically throughout the day as I think I need them. The first two days though I will admit I was taking more Valium than I probably should have. But those have been the worst two days for me (the 1st two days).

Yesterday, I laid around all day as you would imagine and I felt pretty OK. When I first woke up, I went to take a shower and was feeling pretty bad, and actually broke down in to tears for a couple seconds (i'll get to that later, but I did the same thing this morning). I don't know if it was depression, or the pain of the withdrawals, but I think it was probably the idea of facing another day feeling like crap. Anyway, i have been drinking tons of gatorade, vitamin water, and going to smoothie king every day. I think that this is helping a lot and making me pee out some toxins, as well as keeping me hydrated. I felt good enough to go out and go to the grocery with my girlfriend to pick up some things. I was Fucking freezing and so was she, so I gave her my sweatshirt like the gentleman I am lol. Besides the chills and being exhausted, I felt GOOD. Except at the checkout line when i dropped my girlfriends six pack of Sam Adams Cherry Wheat she was pumped about then 100 grocery store employees converged on the area (this place is like a mega store its ridiculous).. So beside being a little embarrassed, I felt pretty good. I could joke with her and carry on a conversation. We went to smoothie king and reluctantly paid our 7 bucks for a smoothie..But i'm telling you guys, they have been helping tremendously.. My diet the last 4 days has been mostly liquids, and I eat one meal a day that's as low in sodium as I can make.

Last Night, the night of day 3: Was by far the worst night I have had so far. I was used to restless legs, but I had restless ARMS, and like fucking crazy! I kept jumping up and shaking my arms out just trying to move them to make it go away. It was horrible, almost to the point where I was going to break and take a little bit of Suboxone... I DIDN'T! But I got sorta close...if it got any worse I might have cracked. But I couldn't throw my progress away just yet....So I took a couple supplements called Withdrawal-Ease that I ordered offline. The night time supplement has a herb in it that helps with RLS.. I took three of them bitches and I actually began to feel a lot better. The melatonin in them also helped with sleep. I am thinking about going out to Wal-Mart tonight and see if I can find something for RLS... My girlfriend came home from work at about 3 AM and laid with me on the futon.. I have been sleeping on the futon because I am so restless in my sleep that I don't want to wake her up. She laid with me until we both fell asleep and woke up this morning, then we moved to bed.. (minor details)

Today is Day 4. Today i woke up about 11:30 AM and went to the gym for 45 mins. I got on the treadmill and rode the bike. I was moving slower than a 90 year old woman and was super happy their was no one else is our small apartment gym. To tell you the truth, I don't know if working out made me feel better or not.. I came back home and took a bath but I still felt like shit.. The rest of today I have been chillen. I did make a huge break through today and told one of my good friends my entire story.. Me and him have been through a lot, but for some reason I have kept the last 4 months of me using suboxone from him. I did this because we both went through a Pain Killer addiction together about 5 months ago and both swore we were clean... Although I was "clean", I have been on suboxone and he has not..So I told him..He said that I was being sneaky and was keeping things from him, but I apologized and got everything worked out. What I have learned is that if you come clean and tell the truth, your real friends will stay and others will leave.. You don't need the "others".. I wish I would have told him...I have always been a very secretive person when it comes to my addiction as I am sure of you can relate.

So here it is, day 4, and I actually feel OK. There are a few rough patches during the day and I still don't want to be around a lot people, but trust me people when I say this.. YOU CAN GET THROUGH THIS!! It doesn't even TOUCH withdrawals from my drug of choice (oxy). I understand that it is only day 4, but it's like I keep waiting for it to just hit me, and it hasn't hit me yet. My main symptoms are: Tiredness, achey muscles, very sensitive skin, a little dizzy and light headed, some sweating and hot/cold flashes, and RLS. The RLS has been the worst part of the whole thing, by far. I wanted to scream last night...

The whole goal of me posting on this website is to help me and to help others. I have only been on Sub for 4 months, and I know their are a lot of people who have been on it for much longer. I went cold turkey from about 1.5 mgs-2 mgs a day, with a 3 day "mini taper" and I'm still standing! I might wake up tomorrow and be hit with a TON of bricks, but for right now, at 8:07 PM EST I feel pretty good for someone going through Sub. withdrawals.

Oh and JackCrack, I took your advice and took tomorrow off of work.. Their was a cruise ship in Charleston, SC that had an outbreak of the NoroVirus (sp?) and my parents had been vacationing down there ( I live in VA ) so I told him I caught it.. Lol I don't know why I went to such great lengths to lie to my boss....lol.. He is a dick, so I thought I had to have some sort of story..I also have my own office and can zone in and out as I need. Which helps a lot when going through this. But I have tomorrow off, and for that, I am grateful.

Peace be with all of you.. Thanks for reading.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:42 pm 
Thank you so much for posting updates for us. As you may recall, I was less than enthusiastic about your plan to stop Sub the way you did. But please know you have my support. It sounds like you're doing pretty well.....You are up for more pain than I am, I'll tell you that!! My cold-turkey withdrawals off all the opiates I was taking must be still too fresh on my mind to even think about suffering the way you are now!! When you talked about the RLS.....ooohhhh the memories!! I feel for you!
Thank you for bringing out the fact that although you are suffering....it is in no way worse than the suffering that goes with detoxing off full-agonists.
Another thing you mentioned was your smoothies. When I was detoxing, those things helped me sooo much too! I thought I was strange that way!
Stay strong. I'm glad you're doing pretty good at this point and I really hope it doesn't get any worse...only better/easier from this point forward.
I still have concerns about what will happen after you power your way through the 'acutes', because no doubt, you are going to make through them. I worry that you will, like me, be ill-prepared for what comes after all the physical stuff is over. I figure, if anyone could be, I was a great candidate to do well after detox. I was "old" for an addict - in my 40s. I had no history of substance abuse before the age of 40. I had no mental health history (depression, anxiety, etc) I had gone through intensive outpatient treatment, had good support, a lot to lose by relapsing, etc. Nonetheless, PAWS kicked my ass all over the place.....the dysphoria, the lack of motivation, the dark cloud followed me everywhere begging for just a momentary escape from it....and relapse was inevitable. I know I sound like a downer. I don't mean to. I want to be all happy for you and encouraging and optimistic and a part of me is. But the other part is.....well, just worried for you. Promise, if nothing else, that if everything doesn't go as you hope that you'll consider going back to Suboxone as a very good option. A much better option that relapse to full-agonists.
Anyway, please keep the updates coming. Despite my words that seem to the contrary....I'm crossing my fingers for you and sending up prayers for you and all the rest of us addicts who are trying to get better.


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