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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:10 pm 
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And I wish for you...........good sleep (still) :lol:

Thanks for updating. It is really great to have detailed information from different people who stop at different doses and have been on it different lengths of time. It really gives a good idea of what to expect. I am glad you are doing ok and I am glad you took a day off. GOOD FOR YOU!!! You deserve it. This is no small task and you should be so proud of yourself for getting this far. I really don't think you will get much worse. You are pretty much already there based on my experience but the sleep will get you HARD. The RLS lasts forever and the restless ARM thing on top of the LEGS is the WORST. It is like you just have to roll back and forth really fast and funky chicken yourself to sleep. HORRIBLE.

I feel for you and wouldn't trade places for the world, but I am happy for you since you wanted to do this. I am also glad you were able to come clean with your friend. Sounds like you may have some support there.

Keep us posted. The psychological is the worst. I had days where I thought I felt pretty good and then I would have a day where I was just miserable. I was moodly like that pretty much the whole time.

Cherie


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 Post subject: A little set back....
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:21 am 
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Hey Everyone,

Time for another update. I am sitting here at work on day 7 and I feel pretty good, but that doesn't mean anything, and i'll tell you why in a little bit.... For the most part the worst of my withdrawals have subsided. BUT, I had a pretty big set back yesterday that may be contributing to the way I am feeling today. Over all yesterday was good, but there was an hour to two hour period where I felt like SHIT. It was by far the worst I have felt yet, and I don't understand why. It was day six and I was feeling so confident up until that point. Yesterday, I woke up like I have the past few days, just feeling a little achey but with an increased heartrate and that creepy skin feeling (which i have grown used to by now). I was feeling more depressed than I had yet up until this point and I think that contributed to what happened. I managed to get myself out of the apartment and get down to the gym on the 3rd floor. I worked out for a good 30 mins and jammed to some good tunes. I got back to the apartment feeling a little weak and bleeding from the foot (pretty bad blister..weird). This is usually when I would head out to smoothie king and grab an "immune builder" smoothie and chill on that for a little while. I've said it before, and i've said it again, those things are a godsend...I went ahead and introduced myself to the smoothie king crew b/c they'll be seeing a lot of me over the next few weeks... Anyway, I waited around after I worked out for like 2 hours, waiting for my girlfriend to wake up and take care of some things she needed to do. I think I messed up becaue I didn't drink much water and didn't get my smoothie (i have been trying to stick to a strick schedule, and things got messed up! Such is life, and that's where the learning comes in). I don't want to give the wrong impression because I am not blaming my girlfifriend at ALL for what I did..I think the combination of feeling really bad and getting out of my routine caused me to psycologically crack for a little bit...and boooommm...

So here it is....I broke and took .2 mgs of Sub...Like seriously, what in the fuck did I do that for? It didn't do anything for my anxiety, nothing for my RLS, and basically nothing for me overall, except it set me back! I've been beating myself up over it the past 19 hours. I really wish I woulda been stronger and just waiting that time out. With Sub. and all opiates, as we all know, each day, hour, and even minute is unpredictable...You really never know how you are going to feel at any given time. I was weak for that few short hours, and boom, took some Sub.

The only thing I can do is to take it as a learning experience. I had been doing pretty well and feeling pretty confident up until this point, but it this brought me back to reality. I see how quickly these things can happen and how you can go down this slippery slope of mind games. My mind convinced me that I needed it and that it was OK.

I went STRAIGHT to my NA meeting after that and explained what had happened. I don't want to get too down on myself, because I have made tremendous progress, i just need to pay closer attention to my triggers and use what I have learned so far. Cravings will come in withdrawal, and I need to be better equipped to handle those. I NEED to give my leftover Sub. to my girlfriend, but I am still working on that. I think I would feel too "out of control"..just knowing it's there is comforting, but may be that's a problem??? I don't want to take it, but for some reason if I HAD too ( i don't why that would be ) I would be able to. I need to give it her..........I think I can handle myself, but It would be a good idea just in case.

Well, i'm looking at the big picture, and .2 mgs of sub in 7 days is better than I have ever done. I plan to stick to my regiment and keep off the Suboxone. This is what I want...It's amazing how great I feel already. I feel like I have my old personality back and I love it. And I think my girlfriend is too....I even cleaned the apartment and did the dishes. She might make a man out of me yet. HA! I still get really tired and feel very weak, and the RLS and anxiety shows up every once in a while, but it is manageable... Later everyone. Keep praying for me, I am certainly trying my best.

Peace be with all of you. Thanks for reading.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:11 pm 
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Hurt,

Don't stress it man, I don't think you messed up bad at all. Messing up would've been a relapse on your DOC, taking a tiny bit of Sub is nothing, and DEFINITELY better than the alternative. You're doing great, stay strong and just keep on your path!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:29 pm 
I agree with DirtRider. Don't sweat it! You only took a tiny bit of Suboxone. I was reading your post and at first, I thought Ii was going to read that you had relapsed to some hydrocodone or oxy or Ultram or something along those lines. I was so relieved to read that it was just a little Sub that you had taken. If nothing else, it was a learning experience for you. Maybe it was just something you had to do. Now you know that it wasn't worth it....it didn't really help with your symptoms much if any. That tiny bit of Sub shouldn't set you back much at all. It wasn't a big enough dose and you've been off it long enough now that I'm thinking that tiny amount will be out of your system or at least down to a negligable level pretty quickly.
Anyway, you're doing fine. Give yourself a break and keep working on things. As has been discussed already.....this is not going to be easy for you for quite some time. Keep your eye on the prize....a life free from active addiction. For you that includes the goal of living buprenorphine free and I am praying for your success. Keep us updated!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:34 pm 
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<b>HurtFace</b> - What DirtRider said! Don't beat yourself up over it my friend. If the horse throws you again, get right back on it like you just did. Your doing great!

You have my admiration and respect!


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 Post subject: Thanks!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Hey, I just wanted to say thank you guys for the encouragement. I was just bummed that I backtracked a little bit, but in reality, it wasn't that bad at all..

I'll keep posting on here as much as possible. It really helps me get things off my chest that I can't really express to my friends (non-addicts). They wouldn't quite understand exactly what i'm going through. I'm so thankful for this message board and I have already told some friends about it. I have a few good friends that I got hooked along with and we are all in the same boat. They are all still on Suboxone. So far, I am the only one who has made an attemp to quit. It's still early, but that light will start showing at the end of the tunnel..in fact I can see a shimmer.. Peace.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:05 pm 
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I agree. Tiny little "setback" if you really want to call it that because you were honest with yourself about it, you fessed up, you analyzed what caused you to get there, you are working on a plan so it won't happen again, and you didn't just keep on going with it. If you were going to take anything at all that would be the best thing to take and the safest. Going through withdrawal all the way is really hard. It feels like it could break you at times. You are doing really great!!!!!

Also, expect more hours / days like that. It happened to me a lot. I might be telling David one moment I felt great. Then 4 hours later I would feel physically and emotionally terrible. Then I would feel better again. The mood swings were just HORRIBLE!! Since you haven't given the sub to your girlfriend yet, you may want to make a better plan for when this happens. Like, if I feel like taking it I will go to a meeting first, do X,Y,Z, tell someone I feel this way, and if I still want it before bed, I can have one. By then you will probably have forgotten about it or not be interested, or gotten a friend to convince you that you would be making a mistake, or whatever. I am not trying to encourage you to keep taking it by any means. I just know you still have it and something has to prevent you from doing it in those moments of weakness.

Maybe you could just bury (why doesn't that word look right????) it or something and if you really want it you can dig it up :lol:

Keep up the good work. Don't beat yourself up. Guilt will kill you and you are doing great.

Cherie


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 Post subject: Update...Day 8
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:57 am 
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Hey, thanks JackCrack. Yeah I felt like I really showed some progress on Weds. When I took an honest look at what happened and how it happened. That wouldn’t of happened a few months ago... I was feeling stressed and a bit overwhelmed, the thought of Sub entered my mine, I went in to the bathroom, cut a tiny .2 and then stopped....I stopped and stared at it for probably a good 3 minutes, going back in forth "dude don't do it, dude do it! You'll feel so much better! You've done so good until this point you deserve it".. It was like a battle royale in my mind between "good" and "evil" (let the record show suboxone is not evil, Sub. gave me my life back). It scared me a little to see how quickly my mind can slide down that slippery slope of "stinkin thinkin" (as they say in NA in Virginia. lol.).

So it's the beginning of day 8, at about 9:45 AM EST and I am sitting at my desk. I am starting to feel better, but I felt terrible this morning. But the thing is, I slept pretty good last night! I took 2 Melatonin and two Valium 2 mg pills my doctor prescribed when I went in for my comfort meds, and slept most of the night. I still hate the thought of taking the benzo's in order to feel relaxed. I'm so worried that I might get hooked on them, as I have been hooked on Xanax before... Luckily the half life on these is longer, and they are a low dose. But I really don't know how I would have done without them so far. Should I be worried about the 2 mg Valiums? I am prescribed 1-4 pills taken twice a day, so really as many as 8 pills a day..(the whole 1-4 thing was my doc giving me some "flexibility" with how i felt". What sizes do Valium come in? If I take 16mgs a day, which I don't, ( I take 6-8mgs), should I be worried?

So, back to this morning. I got to work at about 8 and settled in. The whole commute i just kept thinking about Sub. I just felt like I was going to crack as soon as I got to work. I kept thinking about it because I felt bad. But in reality I didn't feel all THAT bad.. I just felt achy and had an accelerated heart rate, and with the creepy feeling. But I could function.... The idea of the "silver bullet" that takes away all of your pain has a lot of appeal...But I didn't, although I did take 1 2 mg valium, and a 2 Advil.

My biggest trigger is work. I am not happy at my job, even though it pays pretty well and covers my Suboxone COMPLETELY, which is crazy. I don't pay a dime for the medication, but I do pay for the appointments which are (hopefully were) $100 a month.. I am on the phone the entire day, dealing with walk-in customers, as well as handling all office marketing and advertising (I work for a fairly small company). Which normally I do fine with, but when my anxiety level is up and shit starts going wrong, I freak and that's when I would usually retire to the bathroom for some "relief"...That sounds a bit sexual, but by relief I mean, Oxycontin....But on the upside of my job, is that I am leaving it soon! Which is another reason I am getting off the Sub. Cris and I are moving to Panama/Costa Rica for a few months and are going to work down there. I have checked and luckily Costa Rica has a lot of Ex-pats and they have some NA meetings set up...But they are very few and far between, and if I need Sub. for some reason I could get it..Although Methadone is the typical treatment plan in Central America. Hopefully none of these things will even be an issue, I just thought I’d check and bring them up.

I'm not sure why I have been talking about Sub so much in this post... I think because I cracked a little bit the other day; it kind of made me weaker (took .2mgs). I need to focus and talk more on my recovery. How I feel and what I need to do to get my ultimate goal. I don't like talking about the Sub because it means I am thinking about it, and typing about just makes me think about it even more..

Haha. Thanks JackCrack.. I suppose I could bury the stuff (i think that's right?) outside my apartment complex...Ha, I think in the mean time I’ll just hold on to it. The mood swings are ridiculous! Like last night I was hanging out at home, about 10:00 PM and in a good mood. Loading up some Rosetta Stone Spanish Level 2 to practice my Spanish (I used to work there and my brother is the head programmer there as well, so it's free...hit me up if you want to learn a language) My girlfriend came home from work and my mood just changed. It wasn't her, I love her more than anything. I'm honestly just not ready to be around people, like at ALL.. Even my girlfriend! I have spent a lot of time with her over the past 8 days (even more cuz i've been home sick from work) and it adds to my anxiety. She wouldn't understand that at all and probably smack me for saying it, but it's true.. She works nights and works the rest of the weekend, and is going back to her home town to see her parents until next Weds. So I have actually 7 more nights where I’ll be alone and I really need that time.. I have learned that being alone and taking it all in and focusing on how I feel and doing exactly what I want to do when I want to do it, is the best recovery plan for me... I keep my mind busy on the things I love, and have no outside distractions. Well, except a hundred phone calls from friends trying to get me to come out and party....NOPE.

Do you think there is any danger in taking the Sub when you really need it?? I don't want to, and don't plan on it, i just thought I’d check.. I think I would just fall back in to taking it every day again... And plus I am on day 8 and really about over the Acute's, and now I move on to the PAWS..Which worries me a bit.. I am much stronger physically then I am emotionally, so I just need to stick to my meetings and counseling, and really rely on that.

There's a lot to recovery, isn't there?? It's amazing how many different elements go in to it, it almost feels like the stars must align in order for us to remain sober..I was listening to a song the other day by a band called Against Me! Probably some of you guys like them, but they aren't very big. They've been around for a while and are from Gainesville, FL.. Anyway, they have a song called "Thrash Unreal" and here's a bit of the lyrics.. I was working out and rocking this song (it rocks)...

You get mixed up with the wrong guys.
You get messed up on the wrong drugs.
Sometimes the party takes you places that you didn't really plan on going.
When people see the track marks on her arms she knows what they're thinking.
She keeps on working for that minimum,
as if a high school education offered any other options.
They don't know nothing about redemption.
They don't know nothing about recovery.

This song isn't meant to sound isolating, as if no one knows about redemption or recovery...Cause certainly everyone on this message board knows a little something about recovery.

The song just rocks, and spoke to me a little bit.

Although I had a minor setback, I am grateful for day 8. Thanks for reading.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:10 pm 
Thanks for the update. I read it earlier and have thought about some of your comments for that last little bit.
There is a lot to recovery indeed!! I know I have said it over and over again - but I feel like people don't get it at all until they've tried living "clean" for at least several months. So here I go again..........The acute part of withdrawal from opiates is Hell, no doubt, but it's the long- term fallout, after the physical sufferering is pretty much over that is the hardest.
The mental part that you are talking about, Hurtface, is what makes us crack. That drawn out struggle to just manage life on life's terms. You talked about the mood swings and the difficulty dealing with a job you don't love and so forth. You are so right.....that's the hard part. It's like when you're in horrible withdrawal, all your energy and strength is focused on getting through it, so you don't pay as much attention to anything else. Then when that part is over, you have a whole new set of issues to deal with. At times you just feel great....glad to be alive and 'clean', feeling your feelings and working through them. Then you're hit with this depression out of the blue....can barely bring yourself to function at any level resembling normal. It sucks. I pray that you are fortunate and maybe because you're coming off Sub and not full agonists, this phase will not last very long for you. Because it is miserable. I couldn't keep it up myself. Thing is, I think if I could have lived alone and been responsible only to myself for a couple of months, I might've made it. But that's not my life. So for me, Suboxone has been the answer I needed. I still have hopes of slowly tapering and weaning off at some future time. Your posts about quitting have reinforced my plan to not quit soon and to never quit cold-turkey. I do not ever want to go back to what you're going through now. I've been there and done that and I just can't do it again. That's not to say that you've done or are doing anything wrong. We all have to make that choice for ourselves. Further, I appreciate that you have never blamed Sub for the difficulty you're having, instead you blame it on your addiction. That alone tells me you have come a good ways in your recovery.
So to answer your question about there being a lot to recovery.....Oh my gosh, yes, there is so much to it. Anyone who underestimates how much is involved is ignorant and/or kidding themselves. I know I've said this before too.....but addiction is unlike any beast you'll ever battle! And it's a beast that doesn't die......not ever. I am more convinced of that fact every day. Whether you're still an active opiate addict, or you're in recovery with or without medication - hang on...because it's going to be rough! I had noooooo idea how rough. If I could save one person from going down this road or help one person find recovery from opiate addiction, I could feel just a little bit better about all I've gone through. Other than that.....I'm sorry, I can't find anything redeeming about all this. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!
Sorry for the rant. Oh also, Hurtface, the 2mg strength of Valium you were given is very low. Often it's prescribed as 5mg or 10mg pills. That's not to say to not be careful, but it sounds like you're already very aware of the pitfalls of benzos.
Hang in there! And if you're gonna "relapse" - relapse to Sub not full agonists!
Keep the updates coming!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:20 pm 
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You made such a nice post and there is so much to respond to. Great for getting my mind of my crappy day at work so thanks :-)

I think that taking the suboxone only when you need it is dangerous if what you really want is to be off sub completely. I DO think you could very well get back into it.

That accelerated heartrate thing lasted at least 6 weeks for me. CRAZY! But if you get worried about the benzo's, I took neurontin and that actually worked VERY well and would get rid of the pounding heart.

When I got off the sub I remember my therapist asking me how I felt about my husband touching me. I don't mean in any dirty way...just normal touch. My response was "OOOOHHHH NOOOOOOO...I HAVE NO INTEREST IN BEING TOUCHED AT ALL...CAN'T STAND IT...UHHHHGGG! Clearly I wasn't ready to be around people either. I used to call my Mom every day and I didn't talk to her for at least a month. I wouldn't answer my phone. At work I isolated. I was just working so hard on what was in my head and going on with me that I really couldn't be attentive to anyone else and I really just didn't want to be around anyone who didn't understand what I was going through. That is the only time I think I liked NA at all because the people there I knew had an understanding of where I was at. Not that I talked to anyone :)

I have to agree with setmefree entirely. The PAWS is what sucks and the hard part for me was that it just wouldn't end. Then I would just think about suboxone ALL day long. Should I or shouldn't I take it. Should I or shouldn't i get an appointment. Should I or shouldn't I call the doctors. blah blah blah. I was not able to get on with my life because I didn't feel good enough to stop thinking about suboxone. I didn't want to be high. I just didn't want to feel like that anymore. I hated the fatigue and mood swings. When I read that it could last 2 years and when it didn't go away after 3 months, I thought there was no way I could do it for 2 years. Add to it my pain issues and I just decided it was meat to be. I don't regret being back on it. I am happy and I enjoy my life again.

But I have heard people who tough it out through the PAWS and they are saying the same things I am on suboxone. So it is all in your hands. I think it is great that you are taking this journey.

Cherie


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 Post subject: PAWS
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:59 am 
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What's up everyone? Hope you guys had a good weekend. The East coast has been blasted with rain the past couple days, so our weekend weather sucked. I didn't really do too much either Saturday or Sunday. I just chilled with my girlfriend and saw a couple friends, but for the most part I didn't leave the apartment... Which was awesome! I had a good excuse to stay in and focus on feeling better...

I just turned 25 years old 2 weeks ago, so my friends and I are still "sorta" in to the bar scene. I will admit we are starting to grow out of it a bit though, and I think we're starting to look like those "weird older guys that chill in the corner and don't mingle as much".. Haha it's true, for sure! Most of us are in a serious relationship or even married, so we're not looking to meet a bunch of girls or get super hammered...I believe those days are coming to an end, and i'm really happy about that...

The reason I brought this up is that I think that my "maturing" is helping a lot with my sobriety. I'll admit that I/we have been really out of control and irresponsible over our late teens and early 20s (as most people are, I would say).. But Suboxone has completely broken that cycle. I haven't really been drunk at all since I started my Sub. maintenance about 4 months ago. I know that you are not supposed to drink any alcohol while taking Suboxone, but at the beginning I would have a beer or two maybe once or twice a week, but never much more than that. But even that has pretty much stopped...

Alcohol was one of my biggest triggers. Every time I would try to stop taking Oxy and would make some progress (like start to have some time under my belt, a couple days, weeks, whatever.) I would get drunk, and the very next day, I would CRAVE painkillers. One reason was that I felt so horrible hungover.. I used up so much of my natural "pain killing" ability through Oxy abuse, that when I was hungover, I would feel EVERYTHING... I would feel like death, and just like that, I would relapse.. So I am really glad I have been able to cut the alcohol out of my life. And I don't miss it at all!

It's been a few days since i've updated, But I had another set back on Saturday..I'm going to try and not beat myself up as much as I did last time, but I am still extremely disapointed and feel like I have set myself back again. I took a big ".2 mg" on Saturday, that was probably more like a .3 mg or even more.. And I remember rationalizing this in my head like: "this is pretty much just a .2 and that's no big deal, i'm feeling pretty depressed today"...although I purposefully cut it a little bigger. My physical symptoms weren't too bad on Saturday, I was just feeling "crushingly" depressed.

I was thinking about things that I have never really thought about before..like "my parents are getting older, I really need to spend more time with them" and "i haven't talked to my friends from college in a while..we're not really close any more" and "i'm 25 years old now, and my life is passing me by and I don't have much to show for it accept being a drug addict"... Thoughts like these just kept coming and before long I was so depressed I started to cry.. (which if you've been following my blog has happened quite a bit, and I don't really give a shit...quiting Sub. is hard... I'm certainly not too macho or whatever to tell you guys that). And I broke down and took the Sub. in hopes of feeling better.. The little bit of Sub. might of just had a placebo effect on me, but I began to feel a lot better. I wasn't depressed the rest of that day (Saturday), as well as on Sunday... But damn if I didn't take some more Suboxone...

Let me know what you guys think about this. I have a lot of triggers and I recognize pretty much all of them..It's just a matter of stopping them.. I'm a little depressed today and could use a little encouragement.. It's been 12 days and I have taken about .4-.5 mgs of Sub total... Thinking about how little that is makes me really happy! But i'm still having a lot of symptoms, both physical and now more on the "emotional" side of things..i can't keep taking any Sub, or both Symptoms are going to linger around even longer...

I am going to do my best to make sure this is the last bit of Sub. that I take. I know that I don't need it anymore, I just feel like it is the only thing that can help me... But it's not true; there's a lot of other things that can help me, and sometimes I just need to realize that TIME needs to pass by.. Instant gratification is a bitch and I have subscribed to it for many years and it's a tough one to break.

What do you do when you're feeling depressed? This question is open to ANYONE, but if you have quit Sub., your opinion would be greatly appreciated too..But everyone please respond. The more I hear back from people, the more encouraged I feel. It's like there's a community of people out there that are pulling for me! And I promise to do my job and keep you all updated every day, and even more than that if I can...

Today I just feel tired. It's like 11:30 AM and I am not happy about being at work. I need some coffee, but caffeine always stirs up my withdrawals, so i'll stay away..Today isn't too bad; I just lack energy and motivation, but that could be b/c of a variety of reasons. I'm feeling some RAS (resless arms), which if you've been reading, had been the fucking worst... I have never had it in my arms before, like with Oxy withdrawals, but with the Sub it's like ALL in my arms...I wanna flail them around like a maniac and run screaming through the halls of my office, swinging them around and everywhere, banging in to shit and knocking pictures off the wall...Haha that's a hilarious image, considering where I work. The suits might become concerned and start those drug tests after all....

Hope everyone's doing well on this Monday.. I'm doing alright, but could use some words of wisdom. Thanks for reading.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:54 pm 
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<b>HurtFace</b> - Don't get down on yourself, you're doing just fine. So you took a little sub, big deal. Think of where you were when you were in active addiction.

Also, at 25 your life has not even begun to pass you by. You have plenty of living ahead of you, take my word for it. Why, It wasn't till I was nearly 50 that I decided to do something about my problem. You know what I was thinking about yesterday? I was thinking about all those years when I was sober - there were plenty of good times, but there were many days that just plain sucked. I think we sometimes forget that, and we have to relearn how to deal with the hard times that everyone faces, sober or not.

So don't let a few bad days get you down my friend, 'cause you're doing pretty damn good.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:44 pm 
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Quote:
Let me know what you guys think about this. I have a lot of triggers and I recognize pretty much all of them..It's just a matter of stopping them.. I'm a little depressed today and could use a little encouragement.. It's been 12 days and I have taken about .4-.5 mgs of Sub total... Thinking about how little that is makes me really happy! But i'm still having a lot of symptoms, both physical and now more on the "emotional" side of things..i can't keep taking any Sub, or both Symptoms are going to linger around even longer...

I am going to do my best to make sure this is the last bit of Sub. that I take. I know that I don't need it anymore, I just feel like it is the only thing that can help me... But it's not true; there's a lot of other things that can help me, and sometimes I just need to realize that TIME needs to pass by.. Instant gratification is a bitch and I have subscribed to it for many years and it's a tough one to break.

What do you do when you're feeling depressed? This question is open to ANYONE, but if you have quit Sub., your opinion would be greatly appreciated too..But everyone please respond. The more I hear back from people, the more encouraged I feel. It's like there's a community of people out there that are pulling for me! And I promise to do my job and keep you all updated every day, and even more than that if I can...


Hey hurtface - The way that I look at it, there will always be triggers. Some of them you can avoid (like by not drinking) and others you can try to minimize, but you probably can't eliminate triggers alltogether. What I've tried to do in my recovery is to figure out my major triggers, and then have a plan for dealing with them. In my plan, I like to have several options for each trigger, just in case one option is not available to me at the time or if something doesn't work I have another thing to try.

I also suffer from depression - I have double depression, which is major depression with dysthymia. Fun! So I have to work to stay out of depression, and sometimes I have to have ways to get through it when it strikes. Some things that work for me are: Vitamin D supplements, exercise, meditation, staying busy, writing, being with friends, watching funny movies or stand-up comedy, working in my garden, drawing. I would say that one of the most important things is maintaining friendships. Isolation is hard for anyone, but if you are prone to depression, isolation is a surefire way to exacerbate the situation.

What you are going through right now is difficult, but it is also a temporary state of being. It is something that you have to go through in order to get to your goal, which is to be off of Suboxone. Though I would like to point out that maintaining your mental health and getting through your taper and withdrawal without any major setbacks to your recovery is way more important than getting off the Sub asap or making sure this is the last dose you ever take. If you still need to lean on Suboxone for a little bit while you get your legs under you, then so be it.

In a few days it will be eight months since my last dose of Suboxone, so I've been where you are now and I'm telling you that if you are willing to keep working hard then you will get through this. The first few weeks are the hardest, and then it gets easier and easier until one day you realize that you've stopped counting the days that you've been off Sub. I remember that around 30 days I felt about 85% normal - I was still sneezing and a little moody - and by 60 days I felt amazingly good. Just take good care of yourself, keep reaching out for help when you need it, and find a way to get those endorphins flowing.

Best of luck!

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You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


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 Post subject: Update...making changes!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:33 am 
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Hey Everyone,

So after 1 year and 10 months of struggling to get out of bed and drag myself to this job, I have RESIGNED! This morning was the morning, and I actually wasn't even planning on it.. It just sort of happened and it couldn't have gone any better. I know a lot of people (including my parents) would think i'm a fool for giving up a job during this economy. And to an extent, I guess I would have to agree with them, but now a huge burden has lifted off of my shoulders and I can finally breathe a little. This job has taken so much out of me and has contributed in A HUGE way to my addiction. Since i've been here, except for the last 4.5 months, I have had to take something to get through the day (I can't completely blame the job, b/c I had a nasty habit before I started working here). I know some of you may not agree with me, because i know i'm an addict and I would of used either way, but the type of work and the people here have really caused me to use a lot more. Which just boils down to "STRESS", which is my ultimate trigger. I felt like I was in way over my head with this job as a first job right out of college.. I was extremely lucky to get it, but it has ground me down to bits.. My friends say there are two sides to me: "Work Week Jon, and Weekend Jon"...you can probably guess which one they like better. During the week I would always take way more Oxy then during the weekends...The bottom line is I have quit and am so EXCITED to see what lies ahead. The past is the past now, and i am excited about moving on with a clear mind. And, it's getting a lot clearer!!

Well it's Tuesday, 3/30, and the start of my 13th day clean (except for two hiccups amounting to about .5mgs of Sub) and i feel really freaking hot. Last night I sweated in my sleep like i have never sweated in my life. I went to the bathroom and wiped myself off with a towel and I was freaking soaked! I did this maybe two times.. Finally I just brought a towel to bed and would just wipe down periodically throughout the night..Has anyone else experienced this?? I have had night sweats during the past 2 weeks, but good god...I started the whole night sweat thing once I started the Sub back in late Oct. I had never had night sweats before I started taking Suboxone, and it would depend, but I would typically sweat every single night to some degree. The night sweats will end, right??

I took the "big" .2 mgs of Sub on Saturday and I feel like I might be withdrawaling a little from that? Yesterday, I felt totally fine all day and didn't really need anything for sleep, but I took two Diazepam anyway..I need to start feeling comfortable with at least attempting to sleep without anything. It has been YEARS since I have fallen asleep without taking anything whatsoever..I don't think i'm quite there, but I will be soon. I can always wake up and take 1 or 2 melatonin or even a 2mg diazepam if I need...until i feel comfortable..

I can feel that my blood pressure is really up today and I might go ahead and use another Clonodine patch. I have two patches left (because I kinda fucked up one of them).. Does anyone know any dangers of using the Catapres-TTS press? I'm probably not spelling Clonodine right, but you get my drift.. They seem to really help, and i am feeling some withdrawals today (the sub, + quitting my job is contributing).

Am I running to "excuses" too quickly?? Like, "oh i'm feeling this way because of this, and that".. Or do I need to just stick it out?? I think what I have been doing is I will take as much pain and stress as I can, then try to allieviate it when it becomes too much.. (throught the diazepam, Clonidine and not SUB.) I have heard of people doing this, and before they know it it, more and more time goes by between alleviating symptoms, that they eventually aren't there anymore.. This is just a theory..

Well overall, today is an awesome day. I finally did something I have been wanting to do for a really long time. I'm really starting to feel like I am turning over an whole new leaf...It's all JUST beginning, but I am thankful for day 13 and feeling somewhat normal.. I want to start a new life and the leave my addiction behind..

I'll leave you all with a little meditation from my NA "Just for Today" meditation book: (this was like a week ago or so)
Just for Today: I will pack my bags and move out of my past into a present filled with hope

A lot of us carry around a lot of "baggage" and man it can weigh us down..If you are on Sub, off of Sub, or are thinking about getting on it...It's a great way to start or finish packing up your baggage...Take care everyone.

Peace.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:18 am 
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Nobody loves me anymore...No responses. lol

First off, i'm feeling pretty good today. I feel so much better knowing i'm leaving my job and it is really helping with my withdrawals/PAWS (i'm not sure where I am right now). I think i'm still in acutes since i've taken some sub in the past 2 weeks, because I still am getting the physical symptoms. (but only .5)? I put on a new Catepress TTS patch last night, that puts out .3 mg of Clonidine an hour? It helps a lot. I wish I would have pushed through the 2 weeks without taking any Sub. at all because I think it "reset" my body in a way. Also, I haven't been eating as well as I was the first 1.5 weeks. I need to get back to NO SODIUM, and only fruits and vegs, with a some healthy carbs...Anyway, its day 15 and I still feel fine. I feel like i'm always running hot though, which is weird.. I'm not sweating, I just feel like i'm hot. Also, i'm a little tired and "hazey". I'll stop there..
But just one thought....

1. The Taper Method: I have been reading over the Diary of a Quitters taper blog for a long time, and it sounds like an awesome plan that can work for lots and lots of people... But I am wondering if you guys are putting yourself through prolonged pain? I've read a few other posts that raise this question... It seems like constantly having "light" withdrawals symptoms over a couple months is way worse (TO ME). To me, it sounds like Chinese Water torture! Like I said, this is just my opinion! Please don't get angry, because i'm not dismissing this method. It sounds like a lot of people are doing great on it, and I really considered it for myself. I probably would have tried it if I knew I could have been patient enough and stuck to the regiment.. I know myself too well and I wouldn't of been able to do it properly.. But keep doing what your doing! I jumped off at somewhere between 2-4 mgs a day and while I have been withdrawaling and feeling discomfort, it hasn't been HORRIBLE.

I was thinking this morning, "why haven't I suffered from such horrible withdrawals".I feel like all i've read on this board is how bad you feel when you stop using Sub. I think I figured it out...I wasn't using all that much before I got on Sub, I just couldn't stop the habit I did have... I was on maybe 30 mgs of Oxy a day, sometimes a lot more, but sometimes alot less. It really depended a lot b/c my sources were so inconsistent..

I read somewhere on here from Doc that when you are withdrawaling from Sub, you are also withdrawaling from whatever you have done before the Sub. And, I know a lot of you have been through way more than I have and I wish all of you guys the best. I'm sure it really is horrible, and at times, I have felt pretty horrible myself...It hasn't been a picnic.. If you've read up until this point, you know their have been sleepless nights, RLS, and hot/cold sweats and flashes. But I think my concern is that some of the posts might be detering people from quitting (or at least from quitting sooner, especially if they really want to). I was scared to DEATH to stop Sub...But I wouldn't have been so terrified if I wouldn't have read so much "negative" stuff. I read countless threads talking about how awful people are feeling...Keep in mind I am talking about the Acutes here...PAWS is a another story and that really worries me..The ups and downs are so frustrating..

I just want to give people some hope that you can "jump" off at a relatively high dose, and be "ok". EVERYONE is sooo different and it's amazing how circumstantial this is..But if you have a story remotely similar to mine, you can definitely do it.

Hope everyone is doing well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:26 am 
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Howdy HurtFace -

You are loved... LOL..

Many of us have kept up on your thread, and I am very grateful. Human nature, for the vast majority of us, is to find the negative - or what is broken or wrong with situations. I 100% agree with you that most of the postings about getting off suboxone sound bad. They scare me - as I suspect they do to many others - lurkers, and forum members.

I love to read about success stories, and personally believe there are a lot more out there that are 'positive stories' but may be too busy living life and dealing with some discomfort to come back and post about it.

DOAQ is awesome that way! 8 months post taper! You have your story - and as Dr. J. reminds people off and on - that the simple fact people CAN post anything shows that the withdrawals are different. Man, oh man, that gives me hope for the future.

Thanks again for keeping us in the loop. I hope you continue to visit here and keep posting and encouraging. One day it will be me with my plan on tapering. Having someone who has walked the path is VERY comforting.

All the best to your continued success!

LD


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 Post subject: COLD TURKEY VS TAPPER
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:20 am 
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MY HUSBAND IS ON HIS 4TH WEEK OF SUB HES BEEN SLOW TEPP BY HIS DOC I WILL LET YOU KNOW AFTER HES OFF IN TWO WEEKS. HES ON 1/4 PILL 2 TIMES A DAY THE PILL IS 8MG. ASK THE AIR LINE IF YOU CAN TAKE YOUR PRESCRIPTION. WHERE ARE YOU GOING? I'AM FRO EL SALVADOR. KEEP ON TRYING


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Hey, what's up everybody? HARDTIMES,

I would imagine I could take my prescription on the plane to Central America; provided it's in the original bottle with the name/address/type of medicine still visible. But that's not really my goal at this point.. I have been trying to get to a point where I don't need the Suboxone anymore. But thank you for replying. El Salvador is an amazing country, but unfortunately we won't be going that far north this trip. I will be in Costa Rica, Panama, and Colombia.

I have my follow up Dr. appointment with my local family doc. tomorrow. He prescribed me Clonidine and Valium about 2.5 weeks ago to help with my Sub. withdrawals. I still have some Valium left (maybe 30-35?). But I am on my second refill (of 2) of 60.. They are only 2 mg and I found out early on that I needed to take 6-8 of them to fall asleep at night.. But now, a couple weeks later, some nights I can fall asleep with just Melatonin, but I have found like 4-5 days a week I have to take the Valium...

It's been a little while since i've updated! I am on day 19 and i'm feeling really well. Some days I have a ton of energy and some days i'm just beat. Like today, i'm feeling pretty tired..But i'm going to keep this short. Or at least, try.

What should I ask my Doc. tomorrow? Does Clonidine come in pill form? I have been using the patches and they keep falling off/lose their stickiness and I don't feel like they are working like they should. I am still getting hot flashes and the Clonidine usually takes care of that...they come sporatically... Also, I am worried about my sleep once the Valium runs out.. Should I bring that up or should I just try to stick with the Melatonin?? When there is a night that i just take Melatonin, I always wake up at least a couple times...sometimes I get frustrated and just take some Valium..

Also, I have had a doctors appointment scheduled with my Sub Doc for a week (this was scheduled over a month ago, before I ever though about quiting). It was originally set for last week, and I moved until this Thursday to give me "time" to think about it. I don't know if I should just cancel and break off all ties with her. In my opinion, she has been horrible. She is cold, unsupportive, and frankly, doesn't know much. Plus I don't WANT anymore Sub. I have had this feeling that I should "stock up" on the Sub just "incase" the PAWS is too much to handle on my trip.. But right now I have 36 8mg Sub left, which is A TON, and even if if PAWS is HORRIBLE, that would give me over 4.8 mgs a day (i'm gone for 60 days, and that's more than I took a day before I quit!) if I would need it for SOME reason...

i guess even though I have "quit", I can't get it through my head that I ACTUALLY HAVE QUIT.. It is day 19 and I am feeling great. I really feel like life without Suboxone is going to be awesome! And it already has been! But I am still a bit moody and think irrationally. So what do you guys think, should I go see my Sub. doc on Thursday? I don't know really why I would, ya know? I am in recovery and want to stay off of Suboxone, because i'm really starting to feel great! Plus it's $140 visit? And she's going to yell at me for getting a 'script of Valium filled...(when i called to reschedule the receptionist brought it up, and kinda made me feel like a criminal!). And also, I have 36 pills left as it is?? I think I am answering my own questions here, I just needed to see it written out I guess!! But, still please give your opinions. It amazes me the quality of responses you get on here! Guys, i seriously love this forum. It has helped me sooo much!

I'll be on this forum all day, b/c i've pretty much checked out @ Work :)


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 Post subject: LD
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:04 pm 
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Thanks LatheDude.. I really appreciate your comments. I wish you nothing but the best too with whatever path you choose.. I'll try to post as many encouraging things on here as I can (lol. depending on how I feel), because it is possible to come off of Suboxone and to do it in a way that is "comfortable". I know I haven't been on this forum very long, but I admire DOAQ tremendously.. I'm not as experienced, but I want to keep coming back and try to help people as best I can.
Thanks again!

19 Days... Still early, but taking it day by day


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Hey HurtFace -

During and after my taper, I had ambien for insomnia and found it to be a much better sleep aid than benzos were. I was able to get a solid 7-8 hours sleep, which also seemed to reset my sleep schedule in a way. I had like 30 pills and I think I only took about 8 of them and then I was able to sleep fine on my own.

Clonidine does come in pill form as well.

The engery thing will probably be up and down for a little while, but it will get better. Good luck and have fun on your trip.

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


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