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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:43 pm 
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Hey all.....I'd like to share about a close call I had yesterday that actually shook me up quite a bit.....Out of the middle of nowhere my neighbor from across the street (older woman) knocks on my door at 10:30AM to ask me for a favor....Her son is in town from NY and needs some help with his laptop...I have no idea who her son is but I have known the neighbor for about six years....never really spoke in detail with this woman we just always say hello when we see each other. So anyways, I told her no problem have your son bring the laptop over and I'll take a look.... Fifteen minutes later her son knocks on the door with the laptop in hand so I let him inside.....Had a brief conversation about the laptop....and in the middle of all of this my little boy comes running up to me so I pick him up...I have back problems and when I picked up my son I kind of grunted a little bit in pain......and then complained about my back as I always do since I'm constantly in some type of pain. We then had a small conversation about my back...bulged discs..blah blah blah...he then asked if I take anything for my back....I really don't get into detail with anyone about my drug history as it's not necessary most of the time.....I told him I just deal with it usually and sometimes take Aleve which works well but busts up my stomach if I take it too long....of course you know what happened next....he told me he also has a bad back and takes Oxycodone and offered me a few. Instantly my heart rate went up, I couldn't think straight, I started sweating and started feeling myself shaking. I didn't even know what to say...my disease kicked in and started telling me yah...take them and keep them for a special day...I actually had trouble speaking and managed to tell him that I had a lot of trouble with them in the past and I can't take the chance....I then told him I'm on Suboxone Maintenance for this exact reason.....We then had a brief conversation about that and then I managed to change the subject and told him I will call him later about his computer and then walked him out....After that I called my wife and immediately told her...called several people that I use for support.....I actually took another dose of Suboxone I was so shook up.... And now....I'm still getting these stupid thoughts and I'm really aggravated....I have been posting recently and expressing my gratitude for being clean and finding Suboxone..It's amazing how fast things can change.....Well now I have this guy’s computer which means I have to see him again... My wife is going to be home when I give him back his laptop..... He is going back to NY in May!!! I have this guy right across the street from my house that has my drug of choice and has made it available for free.....This is kind of giving me a sick feeling in my stomach so I wanted to throw that out there...I really thought I was stronger than this and these thoughts just have me concerned.....I am in such a good place now and I know if I pick up all bets are off.... Suboxone is doing so well for me and I don't want to screw this all up....I don't see my therapist for another two weeks...I think I may make an appointment with my therapist early this week... Wow...how quickly things can change...I feel better letting this out now.......and I think I have said enough.... Thanks for listening!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:59 pm 
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Sounds like you are doing exactly what your suppose to........you are talking about it and posting about it. I think you should be grateful. You were tested and passed. You can allow yourself to obsess about it but look at it like it was a dream and it's over now even though your going to have another dream with him in it. I had a similar experience in the past where I found a bottle of loratabs in my parents cabinet and it was in my pocket in seconds......then it hit me...what am I doing?? I put it back...told on myself and it passed. You did great.......what progress. You will make it......keep us current but know that your ok.....everything is ok..you didn't take it. I am proud of you......


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:21 pm 
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I agree, you did great. A similar thing happened to me not too long ago. My husband has chronic pain issues, too, and brought some vics home. I did the same as you - increased heart rate, sweating, shaking. Then I kicked myself in the ass just like you're doing. The thing is, we don't choose this disease. A switch has been flipped in our brain and it's not a matter of self control or willpower. Yes, you reacted physically, but you did the right thing. Even if you thought about it for a split second, you did NOT act. Be proud of yourself, we certainly are. Good job!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:48 pm 
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These guys r right you did a great job man an should be so proud of yourself. ive also been in that situation once an its hard i know cause im also on suboxone for pain mang and some days r better then others. but one time i was cleaning out my room to paint it cause i got a new bed set dresser and so fourth and 4 got about a lil oxy statsh i use to keep around for a rainy day. i was perscribed a 160mgs a day so they were 80s and i had about 5 i recall in a lil pill container. this was only 6 months into my treatment and i was put in a real bad place. like you i was shakeing,sweating,knots in my stomach and mental thoughts running threw my mind and i have a bad knee so as soon as i see these im thinking oh my knee hurts so much you know all the sudden your injury is a 100 times worst cause all u want is a excuse to take them. all the heavy lifting reinjured it blaw blaw. but luckily enough i did what u did and called my mom not my wife but called my support and she works about 20 mins away as soon as i told her i had these my mom literally got home in 6 mintues to make sure i didnt relaspse and she made me flush them down the toilet. i got to say if it wasnt for her coming home i would of easily messed up. I tell my mom thanku everyday cause if it wasnt for her i would of never made it threw my first year on suboxone. she has stuck with me threw the good and the bad and i hope one day i could repay her by makeing her happy of who i became an sub has def helped me reach that goal!

Be proud of what you did man yea you have his laptop still but u passed the true test of a addict in revocery and that means more then anything and with your wife being home this time around you wont even think about it cause when surrounded by ones who love you makes the world go round!


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 Post subject: Great Job!!!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:38 am 
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Hi SuperBuper,
You did the right thing. Don't be aggravated with yourself Be Proud that the system you have in place to keep from using WORKED.... Unfortunately we will have these test along the way in our Recovery. It is the way we handle these test that will decide whether we use or Not!!! If it was me I would probably try to get in to my counselor ASAP just to get it off your chest. You need to give yourself credit for being strong and doing the right thing.... Way to Go.. I would like to think I could have done the same thing you did But I'm not Sure???? Best of luck in your continued Recovery 8) !!!!
Take Care

God Bless
TW


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:58 am 
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What everyone else said AND...............that really sucks that the guy is right across the street. I can only imagine! Part of the reason this has been a heck of a lot easier for me has been that my one and only connection for OC got busted the same week I got on suboxone. So in order for me to relapse, I would either have to search for a new connection, or I would have to find a new doctor, blah blah blah. The good news is that in order for you to get high off any of that stuff, you would actually have to spend at least 3-4 days OFF the suboxone which isn't even worth it so don't bother. I don't want to get high badly enough to go through withdrawal for it. Hopefully you feel the same way. Maybe this guy will leave EARLY!
Hang in there.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:08 am 
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I agree that seeing your counselor sooner rather than later is a good idea. I did the same thing - turned to my husband, this forum, and my therapist. Eventually I stopped kicking myself in the ass and came to the conclusion that it was a positive experience.

Jackcrack makes an excellent point - taking those oxy's without stopping suboxone days before won't do a damn thing anyway. I forgot that, too.

So pat yourself on the back and let us know how you're doing.

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 Post subject: Geez!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:17 pm 
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ARGH!!!! I just lost my entire post..... I logged in and it took me sometime to post the entire message as I was distracted a few times and walked away from my laptop. When I hit submit I was brought back to the login screen... Obviously my session timed out, I must have been in the message body for well over an hour. Or possibly because I had two separate tabs of SuboxoneForum open.. Who knows...


Oh well...Geez...I only have a few minutes here..I need to get to bed...... I was so stressed out when I began responding back and now I feel so much better. There is no way I can re-type my feelings, as I feel totally different now... I had no idea a forum would help me in such a positive way. I dropped the bat about 2 hours ago.....so I'm no longer beating myself over the head...anyways, today was a rough day at work....I had thoughts of Satan :twisted: a few times and these thoughts controlled my mood....I read all of these posts several times throughout the day to ease my stress...thanks to all who posted!


Long story short.....I made an appointment with my therapist tomorrow after work.....I need to come up with a plan as Satan :evil: is going to be across the street for a month. My one and only relapse I had was due to the fact I didn't protect my recovery.... A very similiar situation too with another neighbor that moved in... I was always out front with my kids and my neighbor would come out with his little girl.... I found out he also used pills..my D.O.C. This was when I had well over a year clean and I thought nothing could touch me....I had no obsession to use and I thought I could never relapse... Boy was I wrong.... it was suggested to me back then prior to my relapse that I need to end the relationship. Obviously I never did. So this time I need to do things different.. i'm in fear that I'm going to come in contact with this guy even after I return his computer. I'm always out front with my children... not sure what to do here.....

I'll keep you all posted - thanks again for your support!


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 Post subject: Feel the same
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:30 am 
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Jackcrack wrote:
What everyone else said AND...............that really sucks that the guy is right across the street. I can only imagine! Part of the reason this has been a heck of a lot easier for me has been that my one and only connection for OC got busted the same week I got on suboxone. So in order for me to relapse, I would either have to search for a new connection, or I would have to find a new doctor, blah blah blah. The good news is that in order for you to get high off any of that stuff, you would actually have to spend at least 3-4 days OFF the suboxone which isn't even worth it so don't bother. I don't want to get high badly enough to go through withdrawal for it. Hopefully you feel the same way. Maybe this guy will leave EARLY!
Hang in there.

Cherie


Jackcrack - I wanted to reply to a few of these posts but yesterday was a crazy day... I am totally the same exact way... I never really had a good contact for oxys my entire time I used except my last time a relapsed with my neighbor. I knew I could go to a pain clinic as I live in the pain clinic capital of the world. It was pretty crazy how I actually had some type of control during this time and never said screw it let's find a doctor. My only relapse I had I did have a good contact..and that's another reason why I couldn't stop...thanks to Sub it saved my life... As you said i would have to be off Subs for 3-4 days to even feel something. That alone is such a deterrent, I feel the same way as you. So, as I said in my previous post, I need to come up with a plan to protect myself until this guy leaves....I'm in a bad place right now. Thanks for listening!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:30 pm 
I'm glad you averted a relapse and are protecting your recovery. A couple of months after starting Sub I had the opporunity to take my DOC and unlike you I gave in to temptation and took it. The result was absolutely zero. The Sub totally blocked it, I mean it was like taking an aspirin. This is why I think Sub is such an effective tool against relapse. Not only does it keep us stable and reduce cravings, but it binds so totally to the opiate receptors that it renders all other opiates useless. I read somewhere that the analogy is that bupe is screwed into the receptors. Some say that if you don't take your Sub for a few days you could use, but if you look at the graph someone posted (in another thread) about how it builds up in your system I would say that it would take a week or more for a full agonist to work. And in a week's time if we are going to meetings, or counseling or being honest with others in our lives I think we would tell on ourselves and not go through with it.
I think that's why I don't feel comfortable about Suboxone being lumped in with methadone or other medical treatments. It's such a comprehensive therapy. I mean I know it doesn't cure us of our addiction, but it works on so many levels - it actually prevents us from getting high. It really makes me wish uninformed people could understand what a breakthrough Sub is.
Anyway, I'm glad you're doing OK. Maybe because you told the neighbor that you're in treatment he will respect that boundary. Take care,
Lilly


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 Post subject: Therapist Meeting
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:32 pm 
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Hi everyone....well I met with my therapist tonight. Long story short he suggested I fix the laptop and return the PC ASAP... Obviously under supervision... He also suggested when returning the laptop to keep it business and that's it.. Another words no reason to be friendly and continue conversation... One other suggestion which I find tough....If he approaches me in any way to quickly extinguish the conversation....another words let him know I can't associate with him under any circumstances due to the fact that he sells Oxys....I find this really hard to do as I'm a people person and really don't like conflict. Not sure if I can do this....but I'm thinking if I don't I'm jeopardizing my recovery.... My wife on the other hand obviously fully agrees with my therapist and says if I don't do it she will do it...That's about it with that....

Lilly - Thanks for your reply and support too.... It is really nice knowing how well Suboxone blocks other opiates...It is a great deterrent.... I really do feel it isn't worth it to go several days without Suboxone....I'm so content where I'm at I don't want to change it...especially now that I'm feeling better than the past two days. I'm also in fear of getting high on Oxys again for the fact that Suboxone may not work the same for me a second time around... That alone is a huge deterrent for me.. It sounds like a big gamble.... Once again, Thanks for your reply!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:26 am 
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Good job, buper! We cannot control our thoughts; we only control our actions-- and even that, only on a good day! You did everything right, so be sure to give yourself a 'high five'. You didn't relapse, so this is a bit off topic-- but when a person DOES slip, I encourage him to not get too hung up on it-- but to be sure to learn from it. Again, this wasn't a relapse, but you can still learn some things; you can take a fresh look at boundaries, and what you could have done (if anything) to keep yourself safe. I encourage people to treat themselves as if they are two years old, and they are child-proofing a home, because that is how are minds work when opiates are around! We need to keep ourselves several steps away from using at all times; one or two steps are not enough.

I got into a somewhat heated discussion today at the treatment center where i work as med director; they see buprenorphine as a 'maintenance' medication, and I was trying to get them to understand that it is completely different than methadone as far as the subjective effects, and is better thought of as a 'remission medication.' I didn't catch how long you have been at it, buper, but over time the shame associated with using will fade a bit, and you will be left with a big smile after something similar happens to what you described. It is nice to live without that crap, isn't it??!!

Again, good job--

JJ


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:32 am 
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I think that was quite nice of the doc to respond :)

You are really doing well and planning this out for yourself. You talk to the therapist, your wife, come on here. All you have to do now is get that computer back safely and you will be ok.

Lilly is right about the chart because even when I was off sub for 2 weeks I still had such a high tolerance that taking vicodin for my surgery was like taking aspirin.

I don't know how long you have been on suboxone either. Although I should because I am sure you have posted it and I have read your posts.

I wish I had an answer for you regarding how to be unfriendly. In some ways, I am glad that I relapsed early on (first month I was on suboxone) because what happened was I took too much sub, ran out, had to get some pain killers so I didn't go into withdrawal, and went several days without anything before I got the painkillers. The painkillers kept me out of withdrawal but I got ZERO high. I actually called my connection back and asked if she could get any suboxone. She said yes, but that was rare so not to count on it over time. So she got me 3 or 4 suboxone. I was SO HAPPY to get back on the suboxone because the pain killers were worthless and actually made me feel crappy. But I am one of those people who has to try everything out for myself. Can't just learn from someone else's experience. Although I WISH I could have learned from someone else's experience, I didn't and I remember how stressful it was. I had to tell my doc that I used painkillers and was totally afraid he would kick me out. He told me I had to go to this chemical dependency evaluation (which he forgot about thank god) and that was it. But either way, the painkillers were a TOTAL waste of money.

The nice part for me was that I never cared about a painkiller ever again after that. I was offered vicodin and oxy several times over the next 2 1/2 years. It didn't make my palms sweat or do anything for me. Just don't care. You could stick it right in front of my face, or be high in front of me and I wasn't jealous and could have cared less. That is ALL because I KNOW I can't make impulsive decisions while on suboxone and that to relapse (and enjoy it) I have to REALLY want to make this effort AND totally go through withdrawal to do it, AND take days off work to go through withdrawal. I mean, I would REALLY have to plan it out and WANT to screw up my life. It seems to me that most relapses are done on impulse when the disease just takes over for a moment and takes over your mind. You can be in the best state of mind and BAM...disease takes over just like that and you do something stupid.

Some people say after going to NA that it ruins their high. Well for me, suboxone ruined my high. Even when I went off of it and had painkillers for surgery, I hated it. I just wanted to get back on the suboxone. Once I had a TASTE of getting my life back and feeling normal without being high, that was all I wanted. I realized that the high from opiates was really another side effect I dealt with in order to feel normal.

I am not intending to make this all about me. I just wish I could take away the anxiety you have and make this easier somehow. The only way I know how to do that is to really explain WHY it won't work anyways and you won't get anything out of it. If only I could infuse my experience into your brain :) But I can't, so all I can really say is hang in there. I don't know how you will be unfriendly with this guy (If only I could insert my un-neighborliness into your mind :) .....I have lived here for 4 years and don't know any of my neighbors and never go in the front yard).

Hang in there. Take care. Keep posting.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:33 am 
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I think that was quite nice of the doc to respond :)

You are really doing well and planning this out for yourself. You talk to the therapist, your wife, come on here. All you have to do now is get that computer back safely and you will be ok.

Lilly is right about the chart because even when I was off sub for 2 weeks I still had such a high tolerance that taking vicodin for my surgery was like taking aspirin.

I don't know how long you have been on suboxone either. Although I should because I am sure you have posted it and I have read your posts.

I wish I had an answer for you regarding how to be unfriendly. In some ways, I am glad that I relapsed early on (first month I was on suboxone) because what happened was I took too much sub, ran out, had to get some pain killers so I didn't go into withdrawal, and went several days without anything before I got the painkillers. The painkillers kept me out of withdrawal but I got ZERO high. I actually called my connection back and asked if she could get any suboxone. She said yes, but that was rare so not to count on it over time. So she got me 3 or 4 suboxone. I was SO HAPPY to get back on the suboxone because the pain killers were worthless and actually made me feel crappy. But I am one of those people who has to try everything out for myself. Can't just learn from someone else's experience. Although I WISH I could have learned from someone else's experience, I didn't and I remember how stressful it was. I had to tell my doc that I used painkillers and was totally afraid he would kick me out. He told me I had to go to this chemical dependency evaluation (which he forgot about thank god) and that was it. But either way, the painkillers were a TOTAL waste of money.

The nice part for me was that I never cared about a painkiller ever again after that. I was offered vicodin and oxy several times over the next 2 1/2 years. It didn't make my palms sweat or do anything for me. Just don't care. You could stick it right in front of my face, or be high in front of me and I wasn't jealous and could have cared less. That is ALL because I KNOW I can't make impulsive decisions while on suboxone and that to relapse (and enjoy it) I have to REALLY want to make this effort AND totally go through withdrawal to do it, AND take days off work to go through withdrawal. I mean, I would REALLY have to plan it out and WANT to screw up my life. It seems to me that most relapses are done on impulse when the disease just takes over for a moment and takes over your mind. You can be in the best state of mind and BAM...disease takes over just like that and you do something stupid.

Some people say after going to NA that it ruins their high. Well for me, suboxone ruined my high. Even when I went off of it and had painkillers for surgery, I hated it. I just wanted to get back on the suboxone. Once I had a TASTE of getting my life back and feeling normal without being high, that was all I wanted. I realized that the high from opiates was really another side effect I dealt with in order to feel normal.

I am not intending to make this all about me. I just wish I could take away the anxiety you have and make this easier somehow. The only way I know how to do that is to really explain WHY it won't work anyways and you won't get anything out of it. If only I could infuse my experience into your brain :) But I can't, so all I can really say is hang in there. I don't know how you will be unfriendly with this guy (If only I could insert my un-neighborliness into your mind :) .....I have lived here for 4 years and don't know any of my neighbors and never go in the front yard).

Hang in there. Take care. Keep posting.

Cherie


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 Post subject: Thanks Doc
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:30 pm 
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Thanks Doc for your advice, I really do appreciate it and will use it to learn from my experience. Where do I send the CO-Pay? :lol: Well, today I am feeling great; I can say I am no longer worried about my neighbor’s son. This past experience really just put me in fear. I have only been on Suboxone for about 3 ½ months now. I had just over two years clean from opiates prior to my relapse. I was in NA during most of that time going to 5-6 meetings a week. This last relapse was extremely rough, I couldn’t stop for nothing. Suboxone saved my life this time around. I can totally understand your reasonings on why you refer to Suboxone as the “Remission Medication”. I’m currently living the feeling now. For me, meetings were getting rough. My wife is not an addict and she was going one way and I was going the other. Not in our love just our lives… Suboxone has given me the ability to live in this vigorous world without a tremendous amount of therapy and I’m grateful for that. I now have more time with my family and that means more than anything to me. Without Suboxone this time around I would have hit a major rock bottom and destroyed my life. Once again Doc – thanks for your reply. You are doing wonderful work and my family is most appreciated. Thanks!!


I see some other people have replied, I will respond soon! I thank you all for your wonderful support!


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 Post subject: Jackcrack
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:09 pm 
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Jackcrack,

I didn't think I was going to have time to post this message tonight - looks like I did!


Yes, it sure was nice to have the doc reply. I was scrolling down the post and then I saw his picture and my eyes just opened wide! :shock: I am so grateful for this forum – as I have said I just have very little time free in my life. My wife doesn’t get home until 9PM most nights and has been working Saturday’s too. So to have this forum available in my life is incredible. I’m using Suboxone, my wife, therapist, a few friends from the program, and this forum for my support group. For me, I get more out of this forum than I did in meetings for some reason.

Well, as I said in my last post I’m feeling much better today and I’m not worried about my neighbor as much anymore…It seems as I get more experience in ‘medication remission’ I will grow more confident. Coming off this last relapse I’m still hiding in my shadow. I’m sure if you read this post you read my last post. I have been on Suboxone for around 3 ½ months… This is my first time on Suboxone.

Yah, the unfriendly part is just not me it is going to be hard. Like Doc said I need to find some boundaries for such a problem like this. What type of boundaries, I’m just not sure… I was speaking with my other neighbor yesterday who actually lives right next door to TROUBLE. He told me trouble was arrested the other day and his mom was chasing him with a shoe. :o I haven’t seen the guy since Saturday. I will probably knock on their door Saturday when my wife is home. I actually have to pick up another hard drive for this laptop and need to see if he wants to purchase another one. This just couldn’t be a quick fix. :roll: I’m just going to live in the moment today – I will reassess the situation come Friday evening with my wife. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them. From what I gather from your post and experience I would have to go through a lot if I wanted to get high. I’m hearing this quite a bit here on the forum and I like it. So does my wife! I think the moral to this story the Doc hit it on the nail, I need to be more than one step away from using. I’m not sure where I stand there, I think I still have some more work to do. One day at a time – talk to you soon! SuperBuper


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 Post subject: Quick Update
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Hi all! Well I was leaving to do some fishing with my son this morning and I ran into this guy's mom outside. I told her I need to get in touch with her son, as I need to purchase another hard drive for the PC and need the money... I usually lay out the money for these things but not this time around. Ready for this... The mother told me he was arrested last week and she didn't get into details. I told her I still have his laptop and I need to purchase a hard drive and need to know what to do... She advised she will get back to me... Interesting stuff here. Otherwise things are peachy on my end, I feel back to normal again and not so vulnerable. See ya! SuperBuper


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 Post subject: Locked Up!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Hey all - looks like this may be the last update for awhile on this thread... I was out front with my two boys this morning enjoying the day before the rain set in. My neighbor came over to let me know her son was arrested for assault and battery. He also will be going into some type of treatment program in the near future. This all happened so fast after the incident. I actually gave her back the laptop and advised her what's wrong with the computer. She is not paying to get it fixed so that's the end of that. Looks like I don't have to worry about all of this after all...at least for awhile. I'm taking all of this in as a learning experiment and I'm sure this will not be the last. It was a nice test just to show that it is possible to say no when confronted with the evil. Thanks all who responded for your support!

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:20 am 
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What an odd and ironic coincidence with the timing of his arrest. You may have an angel looking out for you :-)


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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