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 Post subject: NO CHOICE NOW
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Barely made it to dr. office as my step-down oxy program is a failure.

He said Suboxone in 2 weeks or find another doctor. He is in a big clinic, does it himself, and, wanting to life --- I said yes to it.

I did think he was unnecessarily cruel by cutting the oxy for the two weeks so I will be very uncomfortable and even in w/d for the whole 2 weeks. Once I agreed to his way-- I think he should have left the oxy program - now aborted -- as it was - which was hard enough --- do not like being kicked when down. I know I will have to stop it all for 25 hrs that day --- so why make 14 days much more miserable -?? will not amount to much gone in real terms -- just hurts me.

He agreed the program could use subutex -- I assume this is the whole thing, not just the initiation. I don't want anything to do with naloxone, and he knows there is no diversion or needle use or crushing.

Since I will be suffering now for 2 weeks - I called back and asked if there was any reason we could not just get started if an apointment were available. Is there any reason ?? NOthing is happening these two weeks - just waiting to start in agony.

specifics:

I still have a bit of valium -- 3mg day -- should I try to ditch it -- or keep for sleep.

I have had a sleep problem for 20 years and oxys were a sleeping pill --- will sub cause sleep problem? looks like it.
this is very miserable - enough to consider methdone - but hard to do that for pain and have rx. He would not do it.

He said one could immediately start thinking of this as a 'stepping stone' and be on sub for two or three months - but this was vague - any specifics on how this would work.

Should I do this under such circumstances? Feel like the options are really few ----constant semi-w/d and depression from the oxys - so I just figured "nothing to lose" last chance anyway what the hell. go for it.

Shoud I try to get in asap -- really feels like it. why not?

cautions?

options?

scared of last chances --- but this may be one.

appreciate thoughts on this - new hope of the end.

thanks,

S


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:55 pm 
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This doctor (pain clinic) said sub will indeed cut the pain of ortho damage (what oxys were for)-- I have heard another dr. say sub will NOT cut ortho pain - it is for w/D. anyone know - which it is?

S


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:40 pm 
Whats up Scruffy!!

First let me just say, i am totally shocked about the whole 2 week thing. Is this the only doctor you can get? You only have to wait until your in mild to moderate withdrawal to start suboxone or subutex(both are buprenorphine). This all sounds a bit crazy!! I know some people say that sub helps for their pain but the level of pain you have mentioned in all of your post seems pretty severe. Not discrediting anyones elses pain but i just dont know wether or not sub will help your pain. It may but, the way you describe your pain im not so sure. Methadone however would completely knock your pain out. I didnt quite understand what you meant when you explained what your doctor said about methadone. Could you explain that again please? You can get it methadone through a doctor for pain but not addiction. Since you have legitament pain, if your doctor was nice enough he could easily prescribe you the methadone for pain and you could in fact benefit from it for addiction as well. Hope things get better for you!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:04 pm 
Since his doc is a sub doc and going by how he's kind of treating scruffy in a shitty way to begin with it seems I doubt he's gonna be kind enough to Rx methadone. Scruffy if you can try and find another doc ASAP and get on subs as quick as possible. Or and I dont mean to advocate buying drugs off the street but if it is your only option grab a few oxys to hold you over till your appointment because waiting 2 weeks in agony is bullshit, that doctor should at least give you enough oxy to hold you until then but it sounds like hes trying to torture you for some stupid reason. In any case I think even tho Im struggling with subs right now that you will do great with them, you will not be in the "constant semi withdrawal and depression" that you describe with sub you will be stabilized the whole time once you build up enough in your system. You will still have times of feeling cravings and some depression but its nothing like how it is in active addiction like you are describing, I remember that feeling you describe so well and it is unbearable and know way to live. Good luck man and i hope things get better for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:18 pm 
Yea i would agree that if you can find a new doctor, that would be a great idea. This doctor is seriously putting you through very unnecessary shit. Did he tell you why he wants you to wait 2 long ass weeks? You may have already said why but i couldnt tell. I agree you will not be in so much suffering once you get on subs. Their will be bad days but not like what your going through right now. Hope things work out for you!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:35 pm 
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Well Scruffy....I'm glad you are still around and haven't given up on us. I am not sure I can give any good advice without knowing YOU in particular and without knowing the exact medical details of your situation. The only thing I am sure of is that you need to ask more questions while you are WITH the doctor. It is a big choice and you DO have a choice here.

Here is why I am having a hard time. There is part of me that thinks your doctor might not be a very good one and this would lead me to suggest that you go seek another opinion. The reason I say this is because I think keeping you on narcotics another two weeks seems a bit odd. What is the point? I agree with you. Why NOT get you in sooner?

On the other hand, this doctor works at a pain management clinic right? It is "possible" that he thinks you don't need the level of pain meds you have been on for your ortho problems and that he may believe you are an addict versus dependent. I believe suboxone can work on any pain that you have, ortho, nerve, etc. but I think it depends on the pain level more than anything else. It is possible that he wants you on this decreased dosage for two weeks because he WANTS you to be in a bit of pain for a couple weeks and suffering a little for a couple weeks. He may want this for the greater good. When you are addicted to narcotics because of pain, the pain you has tends to intensify over time and you hurt MORE than you would have if you had never taken narcotics to control the pain. If you are on a low dose of your normal opiates and your mind is given two weeks to feel some of that pain, not TOTALLY because the opiates work a little even when you aren't high on them. By the time you get on suboxone, you may actually experience that it DOES help for your pain because it will be better than what you just went through. So it will feel livable. When I went on suboxone one of my greatest fears was that I would no longer be able to have my pain controlled. I went from oxycontin to suboxone and I didn't think it was doing ANYTHING for my pain. So I was just living with the pain the best I could and trying to have some quality life. When I went off suboxone, I learned very quickly exactly how much it WAS actually working for my pain. I wasn't high and the pain certainly wasn't gone, but I was functioning okay which prevented me from being depressed. He could actually be trying to save your life. To the best of my understanding, methadone has a greater propensity for causing depression than suboxone does and maybe the doctor is thinking it is a better choice than methadone. I do not know.

On the other hand, the fact that he is currently telling you only 2-3 months on suboxone also makes me think maybe he doesn't know that much because if you have pain, you would need SOMETHING in order to have a quality life. Then again, maybe he thinks your objective findings do not necessitate (sp?) narcotic pain relief and he just wants you off all together. Then again, many doctors tell all patients they will be on suboxone 2-3 months and then discuss tapering but they change the plan along WITH the patient as time goes on.

The difficult part of this is that the doctor could be brilliant, or he could be totally wrong and he could be all wet. I kind of wish Dr. Junig would respond to this one. Either way, since you are already in the middle of this mess, I would suggest trying the doctor's plan and seeing what happens. If you absolutely can't tolerate the full two weeks of his plan, try to get in a week sooner or something. Then I would remain on the suboxone for about 3 weeks and see how well it is working. If it isn't working well, I would search for a doctor to prescribe methadone. I guess I do have some advice even under these circumstances.

Hang in there. Try asking the doctor why you are waiting so long and ask what you are supposed to do for pain? Ask him outright if in his experience your pain levels are consistent with your medical findings. Ask the tough questions.

I will say again, the more of your story you tell, the more I think you are an addict and not just dependent. I think you didn't engage in some of the typical addict behaviors because you had a doctor willing to prescribe very high doses of narcotics to you. But maybe not. Hard to say and probably only you can really answer that question. But I do think you have some traits of someone who gets addicted. Like taking oxycontin for sleep. If it is for sleep because of pain, that is one thing. But I don't know any doctor that prescribes oxy for sleep. That is insane. Most people who aren't addicts won't take it for sleep. They will find something else. Addicts have a tendency to think (especially early on) that the opiate is a miracle and should be used for EVERYTHING. Bad day? Take a vicodin. Can't sleep? Take a vicodin. Boss pissed you off? Take a vicodin. Have to fly? Take a vicodin. I just have to wonder how much of that you may have engaged in along the way.

Suboxone makes some people sleep easier and for others it can keep them up. I can stay awake or fall asleep if I want. I can sleep at the drop of a dime any where, any time. I sleep heavily (except when the pain wakes me) and it usually takes me less than 60 seconds to fall asleep and the next thing I know, the alarm is going off.

Why don't you just give the suboxone a good honest college try. If it doesn't work, at least that will be documented and they may be more willing to prescribe methadone at that point.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:21 pm 
I think if i read this correctly, he is telling you to go 2 weeks with absolutely nothing? Is that right? Also just to clarify from my personal experience, i took methadone for years being stable on it many many times for long periods of time and i never became depressed from it. It made me ready to take on the world and full of energy every single time i took it. I've been taking sub for 20 months now and i've had more ups an downs than i've ever had in my life. This is only MY experience. I honestly never had 1 single bad day as long as i had methadone. But when i ran out an had to withdraw from 50mg's cold turkey it was not very fun. I took 50mg's of methadone every single day for months on end and then couldnt get any for 2 straight weeks and honestly, it was pure hell of withdrawal but after about 2 weeks i could actually see the light and it became barable. Of course i wasnt ready to stop using at that point and would always go back to it. All im saying is, i guess the effects can differ from person to person because i have experienced a lot of negative effects from sub that i never experienced with other regular opiates. It honestly blows my mind!! I dont get it really. How can this be. Sub may be a partial opiate but its still an opiate so how does it give any different side effects than other opiates, negative or positive?


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 Post subject: still confused
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:29 pm 
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Thanks all for the quick responses. I think it is critical just "who" I am in this - dependent? addict?--- for over a year and a half this dr. in a strip mall prescribed a standard 120 mg osys. After tolerance I thought I got no pain relief, but I of course kept taking them no matter what to avoid the awful w/d effects. For all this time there has been NO HIGH AT ALL--about once or twice a month the level gets above tolerance and I feel normal --- like I used to feel all the time --- which is this wonderful thing -- wonderful.

An awful trap. When I tried to step down things get awful fast --- no leaving house, poor eating, muscle tone going --- a Dr. friend of mine thinks it is amazing to survive this way. I just could not stand the w/D so an uneven taking --- very bad w/d at the end of month ---- always head spinning, ache- near panic just outside or in office. The outside has become a terror filled place - very weak of course, poor health ------other things will find this --- heart is a muscle -- and then goodbye. it feels like death.

Based on this no quality of life I decided to go along with this Dr. when he insisted on Sub in 2 weeks. He did not cut off the oxy supply-- but continued with the decrease that was painful and not working. I asked him not to --- actually - he should have increased it above tolerance so I could feel human until coming in and not taking anything for 24 hours. Now I am left with not enough to sleep and feel decent at all - for two weeks - then expected to take nothing for 24 hours and then take the sub. 8 mg.

I do not think he should have kept the decrease in a step-down now abandoned. unwise or unkind --- risky. Maybe he does not know how on the edge I am. That the suffering I will have in the next 2 weks is something he could never imagine ˆI am sure. The secondary factors ---staying in, not moving are very unhealthy.

For all of this I decided I had nothing to lose. I am no longer sure what is a semi-withdrawl thing or just pain -- maybe I will see when sub kicks in. I really felt nothing to lose. Plan B these days I cannot mention in writing you know. Even seems logical not to be the constant vehicle of pure suffering - why do that.?

In response to another question -- there is anothe doctor who is psysiatrist -- good for ortho who uses methadone for pain--my research indicated he would be best. But I cannot get in early. Dilemma.

If I put off the sub date with this arrogant dr. he will end relationship. So-- if no one cancels - I cannot see the other doctor. I can actually tell by LOOKING-- saw the picture of physiatrist and he looks human - not arrogant. I can tell I think.

The sub doctor (part of a large pain clinic--good) is sure beyond a doubt that the pain will be ok

BUT-- when a few pills of oxy are cut out --- massive bad sharp pain flows. He could be wrong. methadone better I am sure.

Why he has made these two weeks so hard baffels me. He did not cut it out ---- cut 100 plus mg of oxy ----- heart would just stop. But this cut is hard to take.

I am also quite concerned about sleep. Insomnia started 15 or so years ago. Many nights of misery and the next day is this dizzy weak feeling I now think is w/d. I use the oxys for sleep. they work for 4 hours. But I know the architecture of sleep is wrecked - not refreshing --- just awful in the morning. Move from bed to chair. That is no life. But this has gone on so long -----not to mention the9 year ativan attack on GABA and how that relates. That system must recover and it is just starting to now. I asked about this ----but who know this? But GABA is the key inhibitory neurotransmitter keeping the anxiety down ------and mine is up. floodgates of flight or fight 24/7. So if the body is being torn up and it hurts like hell - and you are doing nothing - plan b seems more and more real and logical.

Sorry for rambling -- this is why I said yes to this. It is something. Appreciate all info that has already come.

I did call back and say--why not sooner? But if a good deal of this misery is w/d is oxy related --and the sub knocks it out -- just some days of normal would be worth a fortune. Recovery seems impossible at this point --- too much and I just want to give up and not feel it. It becomes everything and before - in life-- this was nothing.

Is it not insane to start going into w/d at end of mo---never never high or good--- then in poor shape and shaking try to fake it to get rx to stop the worst feeling --- that should not exist in the universe. this has been years now.

Probably will try the sub as nothing to lose. exhausted and confused.

thanks,

Scruffy


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 Post subject: being clear on cuts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Poor writing on my part. This Dr. "cut" the program another step. oxys going 7654---down. I really need about 7 plus to not have awful stuff --- still never the high.

There is a high there -- just take more. But I got pretty good at staying lower because high would be so short -- and suffering at end of month so long and bad. Learned once -- maybe a week at zero ----- no food- well, you know ---that was real hell I could not believe ---- metabolism and heat shut down.

Now ---- all these things start at the drop of a hat. If I do something physical -- used to be exercise ---- now I get a rapid panic attack type thing and sweat if all over especially scalp. S o jugging down the street could be a heart attack.

really weak from sitting around. Wondering if this will come back ---can come badk?

However ----the cut was in the now abandoned cut down program -- so why did he cut for this week Now this one is down to 4 and I need 8. I have no other source - never had. Makes it rough. Am typing with ears ringing and head bursting.

It feels like too late to matter. And I do not want a stroke.

So I said yes to this demand. But worried about sleep -- will be so esential for recovery. There is so much to be done and I have no energy or even muscle anymore.
-
HAD THE DR. CUT TO ZERO NO CHANCE FOR LIFE DEPENDENCY STUFF SUCKS - BOTH KINDS - CHEMICAL AND ON OTHERS.

Now that Sub looks real I will probably have more questions -- thank you all so much. S


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:09 pm 
Scruffy you absolutely kill me lmao!! I am so sorry you are having so much trouble!! I really do hope you get some kind of relief!! I just hate that you have to wait 2 weeks for the sub. Honestly, what i really hate is that you cant get to that psychiatrist you mentioned. That would probably work much better for you considering the levels of pain you are mentioning. Sounds like you are in one hell of a situation but, your not in a hopeless situation. DO NOT GIVE UP!! IT WILL GET BETTER!! Just gotta hang in their as hard as it is. Its gonna get better!! We will always be here for your support whenever you need it. Just write out how your feeling and if you ever have questions ask away. Well, i wish you well and will be looking forward to your next post!! peace


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 Post subject: Cherie point
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:32 pm 
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Once there is no option and the sub is going to happen - the waiting gets intolerable. Especially - with the cut that makes it worse than the last to unbearable weeks. Really on edge - just made it.

So the idea of going on subs and seeing how it goes makes sense. Will I be able to tell in a few weeks.

What is really bad now is (with cuts) is this tinnitus and this incredible head pain (pressure) in sinus area - front of head near nose -- and the taste/smell of things so off and bad -- and the sweating at the slightest provication.

Any sense if these things will go away when sub is instituted. If I knew that would happen would be great.

I would like to just go in tomorrow. I did call and left message with gatekeeper --- how about one week?

Nothing to lose now I guess.

S


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:51 am 
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making do-----these oxys need to go primarily because there came to be - quite long ago-- nothing akin to a high and very much a low. Tolerance set it -- and have been far below normal nearly all the time99 percent. Dare not risk a high for lack of other sources than the rx.

BUT-- now I need about 10 oxycodone to muck through w/o problems of the major kind. ThisDr. has lowered that effectively to 3. In addition, the other drug, oxycontin was discontinued last month replaced by m/s contin.

This makes the amt of oxy chemicals quite low. I need to be able to do things like have a good conversation with the physiatrist who uses methadone. But in these two weeks prior to the sub initiation -- having just three seems intolerable. For example -- when low,, at night this amazingly painful w/d stomach pain can come on. I know a pill will solve it and I can get more sleep. Just imossible to lay there in that pain and not sleep.

Does anyone have any ideas how to make these go farther -- the dread is using up early and a day or two with nothing is indeed hell- and I am getting warn down. Just cant keep doing this.


Cherie--- that bit about going to sleep in 60 seconds and waking up with the alarm. You should treasure that -- I would give anything for that - would be wonderful. Poor sleep is really a destroyer and makes it hard to recover from anything. My Mom has that gene and sleeps like a baby at age 94. My father -- I guess Igot that one-- had trouble and basically slept every other night he said. He died earlier --not from sleep deprivation perhaps - but from the GD Money Driven Medicine in this country - where they agree to do a heart valve transplant on an 84 year old -- discover calcification, but carry on for their 12k. Bastards nearly all. Messed up calcium was let loose in the blood ----stroke --- nursing home---horrible death.

I used to have some respect for doctors -- not now. Wish I was in Canada, or France, or my real home Norway.

the medicine would have done no harm.

I was harmed mostly for trying to get some sleep. As we saw with Keith Ledger -- trying to sleep.

Sorry to go on - but if not for that --- if sleep just came-- I would have never looked for a drug for any reason. I was fine except for that critical thing. And the drugs for it are so bad.

I guess I am writng because I don't know what to do. I really hope that light dizzy feeling, sweating, tinnitus, and that head pressure are w/d or assoc with oxy-- and the subs or methadone make them go away. That would be wonderful


S


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:31 am 
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Scruffy - It sounds to me like your doctor might be tapering you because he was afraid of what would happen if you just stopped taking all narcotics for 24 hours so you could get on the suboxone. I know this is hard.....extremely hard. You are going to have to take the medicine as prescribed. If you run out early, I would suggest you run to the nearest detox clinic and check yourself in and maybe they will start you on sub and then you go to this doctor, or maybe you find someone else. It is either that or you suffer through withdrawal which most of us have had to do at some point or another. I admit it is torture and if you are having this many problems now, I am not sure how you would do with nothing.

Think of it this way. You are VERY close to being in a position where you start suboxone and try something new. Two weeks is a long time, and I think you should try getting in early. But if you must wait, it isn't the end of the world. You will be okay in the end and there will be an end to this pain and suffering. In 3 weeks, you will basically know if sub is now your Plan A or not. If not, you will know methadone is your Plan A and you have already found the doctor to go to in order to get it. So why don't you continue with this suboxone plan, schedule an appointment with the other doctor, start gathering your medical records together since he will want those, and get it lined up so you aren't waiting so long if you need to change over to methadone.

Cherie

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 Post subject: very true
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:18 pm 
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Thanks Cherie- what you write is amazingly accurate - except giving credit to this dr. for good motives. He did this step down when we were sitting there discussing leaving and finding another doctor because I did not like his plan. I then realized I had nothing -- nothing to lose. Then I said ok your way -- fine. He still scheduled it out 2 weeks and still kept the step down -- one out of the batch could not do much to change w/d -- but it would help me. He would have had to go out of his way to change the prescription - a bother. But the fact is -- with this decision and plan -- as you stated it - in place ---- there is another sub doctor just blocks from here -- I think I will be calling them. I owe this clinic nothing.

a few specific questions for all:

1. Anything to look for when I contact a close clinic. The big one I am using is----big. I have more questions about the strip mall rental look. Any strategic question(s) to ask to see if the place is good.

2. I read a story about a clinic charging $2,500 for initiation --- what should costs look like. The big place will take insurance and there is no cash deal.

3. on near w/d stuff ---- there are so many symtoms -- all so bad. But it would be nice to know if the following are indeed symptoms that might go away -- or the start of a bad disease process. they are:


NEW stuff:

1. Movement causes sweating and heat - rapid heart beat. Any activity -- makes going places or exercise much worse \would be great if it left.

2. Pressure in head (this was a classic old benzo feeling for many --- when I took Ativan) -- ativan and GABA recovery may not be complete at all.

3. With pressure -- ringing in ears.

4. nasal stuffiness bad - like sinus pressure to point of headache.

Note ----as the dose is dropped the reality of ortho pain shows up - seems to go throuh pain circuits more easily now - worse - shows what is there when pain drug gone. This kind of argues for the methadone level of treatment - like sub may not handle this. Well -- that will be discovered with the sequence that Cherie noted - if I can do that.

It is much more important to have info on the new bad symptoms and if they might go away with subs.

finally - another dr. might prescribe ambien for sleep during the 2 weeks/ any reason not to do this. Kind of works for sleep but kind of strange feeling. no good using oxy for sleep - but when bad symptom wakes you there is not much choice.

feelings of determination and hope still come, but less - and so much adding up --with no good visions of the future - like trying hard for what? get tired of whining and mourn the loss of dignity - a kind of final reality kind of starts winning and offers some peace - things run a course and that is the way it is - there is such a thing as enough. But then tring something harder gains ground for a bit and can win. It is nothing like the past -- where great effort can win and the fun is in the trying -- seems lost.

S


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 Post subject: waiting update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:57 pm 
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this waiting is for nothing positive. It is economic realities or whatever ---- so sad --if he sub would indeed kick in and this pressure and tinnitus etcetc. would leave that would make all doable.

I called another dr. I know of and trust (should have earlier, of course)-- and he cannot see me for -- also 2 weeks. Is actually gone with family matters etc. In a clinic near I trust - an addictionogist - with a good rep.

and and -- I find the original doctor who has been prescribing to this point also can do subs. So - I could go there again as weird as it would be.

because - I am sitting here with not enough because of recent cuts. Oxycontin 45mg eliminated and replaced with some m/s. and the oxycodone of course down from 7 (and that hurt) down to 4 now. in a failed step down program. The 13 day wait for the big clinic or the nearby ----all having this wait.

We have no place to check into here - so all is waiting. seems stupid. If this is the last best hope - lets do it before a bunch of w/d rips up --- body and health.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:15 pm 
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out of kind of despiration called the dr. office that prescribed all the oxy for 2 yrs. -- had left and gone to big pain clinic 2 wks ago so have not been there this mo --- not aware of what is going on probably.

But they had an 11 a.m appt TOMORROW - and apparently he does use subs - and could do this NOW

I really don't know how the 2 week wait in w/d would go ------very badly I suspect.

With an 11 oclock appt tomorrow If I quit taking anythig now (noon here now) I guess I would be in w/d for sure -- and startig from a weak bad place --to start. Just not thinking right -- I probably should call them today and say this is what I want to do -- but with case notes etc over at the clinic can I just start there.

Is it common or allowed to switch --- since I am interested in the START NOW critically.

Any suggestion for how to do this. A place I do not want to go now - is the only place that can see me tomorrow.

cannot wait the two weeks

few choices fast here.

Would he be able to even start subs tomorrow.

I thought I would never be there again and the associations are not good.

I will start with----I need to call this last place and tell them what I want to do tomorrow - cannot just show up. They might say get lost --- but then I have lost nothing.

If I am right this 2 week wait for a nicer place is out. UPDATE AGAIN-- CALLED THE OFFICE - SEC SAID TO JUST COME IN AT 11 AND IT WOULD NOT BE THAT LONG TO STARTIG THINGS -- BUT HE COULD BE PISSED FOR ALL THE LEAVING AND STUFF LATELY-- I TOLD THEM IT WAS A SECOND OPINION ON PAIN-- AND THEY REC. SUBS.

SO---IF I START IT HERE -----DARE I TAKE WHAT IS NEEDED ON THE ASSUMPTION THIS WILL WORK -- FOR A DAY - THIS WOULD LOWER NEAR NOTHING SUPPLY -- BUT GET THROUGH TOMORROW. - A MESS

BUT FEW OPTIONS.

THANKS FOR HELP WITH THIS ONE. ---- FEELING ROUGH ALREADY TODAY ALL TIME IS BAD SO,,,,

THANKS

S


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 Post subject: anyone had this
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:17 pm 
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with less oxy --- sitting here waiting with

1. pressurized head and sinus -- great pressure with ears ringing

2. sweating for no reason - start to sleep or do anything and it starts.

would be nice to know these might leave with sub started. any experience? these things make thinking of normal hard and are a dis-ease.

but if not a symptom of less oxy and lack of sub --- could be sign of real disease.

and info appreciated.

thanks.

S


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:38 pm 
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what are the costs involved in starting subs? The first visit -- I assume more, and ongong. Usually covered by insurance or not. Any problems switching to a different Dr. once started - in the same city?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:55 pm 
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There is no reason that he should be making you wait 2 weeks to start the Suboxen and expecting you to w/d that entire time not only is that cruel but it is irresponsible and can be fatal, not sure ask the SuboxDoc on here about a doc telling you to just w/d from oxys like that with no program and not allowing you to start the suboxen program for 2 weeks thats ridiculous, its usually a 24-48hr waiting period where they need youto be in mild to moderate w/d for the Suboxen to work effectively and have positive results vs. negetive results ie "prescipitive withdrawls" the suboxen if taken too soon after using full opiod agonist like oxys can actually kick out the rest of the drug in your system and send you into full blown withdrawls but thats only a 24-48hr period wtf is this 2 week shit, is he saying he doesnt have any room for you for 2 weeks? and if so is there any other doctors in the area that you can go to because it sounds like maybe this doctor may be too busy to properly monitor your recovery process anyway for it to be truly benneficial for you but any doctor telling you to pretty much "cold turkey" it is kinda defeating the whole purpose of the Suboxen treatment process to begin with after 2 weeks of sheer agony why are you gonna give this jerk your hard earned money. just something to think about


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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