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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:18 pm 
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I'm not proud of this. I got kicked out of the sub program for marijuana use. The thing is, I didn't see it coming. The doc had mentioned I had thc in me the past couple of months. I was in a terrrible car accident where someone died and I had a cancer scare recently. I didn't smoke a lot, and even tested myself and was negative. They must do more in-depth testing I guess. I wish the doc would've warned me I was in danger of being kicked out but she didn't. It's like she seemed ok with it. Anyway, my last visit was 2 weeks ago. She told me I had to go to a chemical dependency program and would hold my spot for 30 days. If in 30 days, she didn't hear from someone that I had enrolled, I couldn't come back. 3 days later, I get a letter in the mail telling me i've been dismissed from the practice for using marijuana. Well why didn't she just tell me that at the appointment? No, she lead me to believe I'd still be coming back as long as I entered an out patient program. She pretty much lied. Maybe she thought I'd go nuts on her in the office? I can't beleive that but whatever. I was on 24mg a day since may 2010. She gave me my regular rx for 90 at the last visit. If she knew she was dismissing me, why didn't she at least tell me how to taper? I'm so scared. I've cut down from 3 a day to 2, and feeling ok. Can someone please give me some sort of schedule to finish what I have left? I don't even know how much to cut down per day.
Also, on a side note.... when I got that letter telling me I was dismissed from the program, I noticed on the bottom it was cc'd to my primary care doc and my pharmacy. Fine, send it to my pcp but sending that letter to my PHARMACY?? WTH? I don't remember giving any permission for them to discuss me with a pharmacy! I'm never going back to that drugstore! How embarassing. They get a letter saying I'm no longer a patient of doc so-and-so and that I was kicked out for drug use. That is not cool. I have rx's there for my kid. I'm not embarassed about being on suboxone, but am embarassed about being kicked out and the reason for it. Is this even legal? To send that very private info to the pharmacy?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Hey Rockermom, I hate reading stories like this, it's such BS when Doctors pull this crap! As far as her disclosing information the way she did it depends on what was in the consent form you signed when you started with her. But, legal or not, in my opinion, what she did was morally wrong. Not all Doctors are this way, and if I were you I'd try to find someone new, there are good ones out there, but sometimes ya gotta kiss a few frogs to find one. My heart goes out to ya.

Before figuring out a taper schedule, there are a few things you need to consider. First of all I'd try to find another Sub Dr. and do this the right way, second are you really ready to go off Sub? What's the sense in going off if your not, you might be setting yourself up for a relapse.

If your minds made up, or for some reason another Sub Dr. isn't an option, I'd try reducing the dose further. Sub has a high stacking/binding affinity, and a long half life, so it takes a while for you to feel the true affects of a dose reduction, especially at higher mg levels. You need to find out where your really at with this stuff. How long has it been since you went from 24 to 16? I'd wait at least 7 days, if it's been that long you might try dropping another 4mg, then depending on how you feel you could try lowering your dose again, but, I'd wait at least seven days, remember you can always go back up if it's to much of a drop. If your successful getting to 12mg, and stabilizing there, then I'd lower the reductions by 2mg, every 7 days until you start to feel the onset of withdrawals, then go back up a little. The idea here is to find your ceiling level, the point where your not feeling any withdrawals, just normal. Once your there, you'll need to lower the dose reductions even further, maybe by 1mg or .5mg, it depends on how much sub you have left and how you feel, but give yourself enough time between reductions to stabilize! You will start to feel the reductions, for me it wasn't too bad until I got to 1mg and below, at which point I cut the reductions to .25mg. Are you on the tablets or the strips, making accurate dose reductions with the strips is much easier, and how much sub do you have left?

Once your ready to make the jump you'll need some comfort meds, your PCP should be willing to help you that. I was given Clonidine (helps with cramping and Rstls legs), Robaxin (muscle relaxer), Ambien (for sleep) and Ativan (benzo for anxiety) . My taper was really slow, reductions every 30 days, and I jumped at .25mg (after 30 days), so I didn't need the comfort meds for very long, by day 5 I felt pretty good, it's now day 30 for me and I feel pretty normal.

I'm no medical professional, just someone who's been down this road and wants to help. I do hope you'll try to find another Doctor and do this right, it'd be a lot easier on you, and you'll have a greater chance of success. What ever your choice I wish you the best!

Mike


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:30 am 
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I agree - see if you can find yourself another suboxone doctor. People who are forced off suboxone before they are ready aren't exactly set up for success. (I'm sorry, I don't mean to discourage you.) But you have to think of YOUR health and recovery right now. Have you checked out the online doctor locators? (Naabt.org, suboxone.com, suboxone-directory.com, samhsa.gov).

As for your taper...I used to be on 24 mg and had to taper down temporarily for a surgical procedure. I found that I was able to drop down from 24 mg to 8 mg with no problems because they are both very much above the ceiling - at least for me it was. In other words, I could cut my dose from 24 mg per day to 8 mg per day in one fell swoop and I experienced zero withdrawals. Of course everyone is different as is their unique ceiling, but you could try it and see how you feel in a day or two. When you cut your dose, due to the long half life, you won't really feel the drop for 2-3 days. If you can make that drop that quickly, it will really save a bunch of sub for you. It would turn one month's of meds into 3 months. Just a thought.

I really hope you can find a new doc quickly and you won't have to deal with this mess your doctor left you in. Good luck and let us know what happens.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:04 am 
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Thanks. I've been thinking that I want to get off of the subs for a while now. Honestly I have no desire to go back to using oxy again. Even during some stressful times recently, I was alright. This is not the way I wanted to quit them though. There are just a few sub docs here and the ones I've called either don't take my ins or are at their patient limit. Yesterday i only took 8mg all day, and I woke up feeling sick this morning. Not sure if it's a mental thing or not. I do have clonodine here and will try that.
About the whole privacy thing, I remember signing lots of froms the first day I went to this doc. But I was so dope sick that day and there was a bottle of sub in my hand that I had to go pay for and then bring back to the sub doc before I could take one ... well who knows what I signed. I would've signed anything at that point just to get relief. I don't remember anything about a pharmacy other that answering the question which pharm do I use. This sub doc has done some questionable things before, once when I was having hip surgery she faxed a letter to the ortho surgeon telling him I'm a sub patient and not to give me opiates for more than 7 days. I never said or signed anything saying a fax was ok. Even if there's a cover sheet that states the fax is confidential, faxing is not. The secretary could read it or whoever happened to be at the fax machine, the nurse, anyone could read it and I'm certain i didn't agree to having any private info about me faxed anywhere. Ugh. Sorry for the rant.
Right now I have 60 of the 8mg strips left. I just right now took half of one, about 4mg and am going to try to take maybe another 2mg later and 2mg at night and see how that goes. I've got too much to do to be sick this week. Nice timing.
Thank you again for the helpful info.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:59 pm 
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Rockermom, I agree with you, when I inducted I was in such bad shape I would have signed those papers in blood. Fortunately you won't have to deal with her anymore. I would still try for another Doctor, even if your intent on getting off Sub, getting thru this smoothly with only 60 - 8mg strips may be problematic, at least get on a waiting list, it can't hurt.

It's unfortunate that Drs induct patience at such high levels and leave them there, in most cases it's unnecessary for a successful maintenance dose. Hatmaker is right, you can usually make larger dose reductions when getting to your ceiling level, but an 8mg dose reduction may be too much for where your at, you haven't been at 16mg that long, if it were me I'd try going to 12mg 1st and stabilizing there. Then try dropping in 2mg increments at 1 week intervals, until you've reached your ceiling. You can do this! Keep posting and let us know how your doing!

Mike


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:07 pm 
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that REALLY sucks what your doctor did.......
you would think douchebag moves like that would be illegal!!!! at least they should be......

In any case, I do wish you the best. I hope you ARE ready for the change your about to make. I dont know if ill ever be ready.... cross that bridge when I get to it....

Just wanted to show support and encouragement.
Hang in there,,,
keep posting so we know your OK.....

best of luck
try to have a MERRY CHRISTMAS


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:59 pm 
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RockerMom wrote:
Thanks. I've been thinking that I want to get off of the subs for a while now. Honestly I have no desire to go back to using oxy again. Even during some stressful times recently, I was alright. This is not the way I wanted to quit them though. There are just a few sub docs here and the ones I've called either don't take my ins or are at their patient limit. Yesterday i only took 8mg all day, and I woke up feeling sick this morning. Not sure if it's a mental thing or not. I do have clonodine here and will try that.
About the whole privacy thing, I remember signing lots of froms the first day I went to this doc. But I was so dope sick that day and there was a bottle of sub in my hand that I had to go pay for and then bring back to the sub doc before I could take one ... well who knows what I signed. I would've signed anything at that point just to get relief. I don't remember anything about a pharmacy other that answering the question which pharm do I use. This sub doc has done some questionable things before, once when I was having hip surgery she faxed a letter to the ortho surgeon telling him I'm a sub patient and not to give me opiates for more than 7 days. I never said or signed anything saying a fax was ok. Even if there's a cover sheet that states the fax is confidential, faxing is not. The secretary could read it or whoever happened to be at the fax machine, the nurse, anyone could read it and I'm certain i didn't agree to having any private info about me faxed anywhere. Ugh. Sorry for the rant.
Right now I have 60 of the 8mg strips left. I just right now took half of one, about 4mg and am going to try to take maybe another 2mg later and 2mg at night and see how that goes. I've got too much to do to be sick this week. Nice timing.
Thank you again for the helpful info.


Hi, RockerMom. Wow....that story really sucks!! First, I cannot believe a doc would drop a patient and run when they are giving them 24 mg a day. Second, it is so stupid in my opinion to be dropped for marijuana. I mean, c'mon....On what planet is it a good idea to force someone into such a precarious position because they test positive for THC? So friggin' stupid.

Here's the deal. You've been on a really high dose. It's so impossible to comprehend how hard it can be to get off Sub until you get to the lower doses. It seems easy when you are taking a lot. I remember being on 32 mg and dropping in huge amounts and I was fairly okay. Then, going from 2 to 1 mg was super tough. It took me a year to taper off 8 mg. I'm not trying to scare you, but I truly want to warn you about what you could be in for. You can taper off Sub if you want. It's 100% doable. However, I recommend you do whatever you need to do to find another doc. Start looking now. You may really regret it if you run out and it all hits you and you have no doctor. Don't paint yourself into that corner....

Right now, I'd do what Hat said and try to find your ceiling. Get down to the lowest amount it takes to keep you okay. Save as much Sub as you can to hold you while you figure out how to see someone else. If you could get to 4 mg quickly, you could stretch your supply a looonnngg time. Best of luck!!

Oh, and I would probably call that doctor again. The way she treated you is ridiculous. Have you been able to explain your position to her? That there is not another doc you can easily see? That she informed you about enrolling in that program and then dropped you anyway? Maybe you can put it in writing and send that to her. Fight it. Maybe she will take you back and you can see her just while you taper. I hate it when people get treated like this and I'm mad at her for you. :x

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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