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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Someone once said this reads like a novel - yea, I guess. But it will not be endless, because I have just had it and decided that things will get better (tolerable) or else. period. Toward that end the first thing that must happen is that a killer drug (the oxys) must be eliminated.

People on this Forum have helped a great deal helping me figure out what to do.

So, Recently I went to a fancy clinic where their newest little Nepoleon decided on his own what to do.That was --- substitute oxycontin and prescribe m/s contin. Then- quickly reduce oxycodone -- 15mg weekly until it is hard to live. then, wait two long weeks and he will start Suboxone.

Not being willing (or able) to wait 2 long weeks in this situation for no reason-- I went to original pain doctor today who is guilty but naieve and experienced. He was hesitant to do a quick suboxone conversion because of risks of precipitated w/d and blood pressure issues. ----Here I think he is unaware of all the times over the years I have run out of stuff and had no mediation for days -- maybe 72 hours. I think I do know the joys of precipitated withdrawal - unless Sub early could top that.

However he agreed we could do it next week IF primary physician would get bp under control. I will try to make that happen. The fancy clinic doctor continued the m/s 90mg ---even when I asked to change-- the older doctor said that was terrible and changed it back to oxycontin SOMEONE HAS TO BE RIGHT HERE -- AND SOMEONE WRONG THE THE GREAT DETREMENT OF PATIENTS. ANYONE KNOW WHO?

Then, he sais I should try to take only one for three days prior to induction ----I will get it clarified -- it was ONLY oxycontin or only oxycodone prior.

Would be good to know about prep for induction and how much is usually taken - pills etc. I hope to staywith subutex since there is no need for naloxone for anything . I have heard the line it is inactive -- yet reports that people get headaches even from just having it in their system.

This is it. The current situation is intolerable. This will be a hope and a chance.

Or it will not.

knowledge is power -- love hearing good information.

thanks to you responding.

S so this is on for next tues or thurs any probs with timing etc. what happens that day etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Scruffy you already sound a little better. I think only 1 oxycontin for three whole days prior is pretty light. That is a bit naive. But given your BP issues I think they are very afraid of precipitated withdrawal. Yes....precipitated withdrawal is WORSE that normal withdrawal because it condenses it all into a short timeframe. You would definitely want to die and you would definitely have a major BP issue. You will want BP meds on hand just in case.

You can get a COWS scale online. You need to be in moderate withdrawal to start suboxone. If you start before you are in moderate withdrawal, you will get very sick and you will be miserable. It's worth the wait.

I think Tuesday sounds decent enough for a start date. If it was me I would take my last oxy on Sunday evening or maybe even Monday morning. It depends on how bad you are though too. You probably know how long it takes you to be super sick. It didn't used to take long for me to hit major withdrawal because I required such high doses. So stopping all together just freaked my body out. Sunday night is probably good enough but I encourage you to listen to the advice of others and not just me. I only know my own experience and it has been over three years since I did it.

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

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 Post subject: It's time
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:29 pm 
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Well it is good that you got a second opinion and at least the induction moved up a week. Now it's time to stick with just one doctor......the one that is going to put you on sub. Did the doctor say subutex or is that what you want? If they offered then that is good as it comes in a generic and is much cheaper than suboxone or brand subutex....however alot of doctors will not give subutex because of diversion and the ability to utilize the med through needles. I don't believe your history includes IV use but if it does then in most cases they wont prescribe it. The doctor's have been pressed lately by the manufacturer of suboxone- RB to utilize the films due to abuse and diversion. I was lucky my first doctor allowed me to take the generic subutex for financial reasons..of course this was before the films. Usually if you are a pregnant female or allergic to naloxone or the artificial sweetner in suboxone is the only time I have seen doctor's freely give subutex. There have been reports of headaches from people taking suboxone and I had them for the first couple of weeks but they went away. Anyway that may not even be an issue for you if they already offered it up.

As far as the induction goes....I will tell you that if you ever had Precipitated w/d's in the past believe me you would remember it. It is as close to death I believe someone can feel and still be alive. There are a couple live threads right now where a few members have suffered from them by taking the sub too soon. My doctor told me no opiates 24 hours before induction There was no way I was going to risk it so I waited 48 hrs to induct and I will tell you within 20 minutes I couldn't beleive how good I felt. You are taking a short acting opiate so you should be fine but get a copy of the COWS scale (google it) and you can guage how bad your w/d's are from there.I have read alot of your post and the struggles you are experiencing but give this a chance because Suboxone takes care of my cravings, w/d and even my depression. My only concern is not getting proper pain management if in an accident or need surgery.

Most start with 4mg then 2mg more after 2 hours if still not feeling well. Usually 8mg is a good start for the first day but everyone is different....you may be fine at 4 mg. However some people may need to take 16 to 24mg a day. Listen to your doctor and your body and communicate with him and tell him how you feel until you get stabalized. I think you will be surprised at how strong this medicine is and trust me taking more is not the norm with this medicine......actually you are wasting your money and the med as once your receptors are saturated the ceiling level is 4mg to 6 mg. After 22 months I am stable at 6mg a day. Since you take for pain you may need to take more.

This is truly a new begining for you and I hope it works for you. I never would have beleived I would feel normal.....not high and have no cravings whatsoever.......be able to drive by a hospital or urgent care without pulling in to try to score some pills. My life is so much better today....Now it's your turn to jump on and take the journey as well. You have had alot of troubles in the past with the direction you have received from your doctors but stick around and ask all the questions you want. Alot of us are not doctors but have been right where you are right now and we can help you get through this induction and get you stabalized. Good Luck and keep us posted......

Jim


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:03 pm 
Yeah unfortunately if your doctor didnt already agree to give subutex chances are like 80% you wont be allowed to take it its just how it goes unfortunately. Also the people who get headaches from the "naloxone" in subs are incorrect in my opinion, it is the bupe itself that causes them. I know people who have been on both subutex and suboxone and said they get the same headaches from both. The consensus from everyone I know on subutex says it is identical in terms of "effects" compared to suboxone and the only reason they even take it is because you can get generic not because its somehow better. Good luck with induction and yea I would probably wait a minimum of 36 hours without oxy before dosing the subs 48 hours would be even better.


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