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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:07 pm 
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Hey Lilly, I just saw your post up there. I think I must have been posting at the same time and missed it. I get what your saying. I guess I just still don't understand it for a couple reasons. 1: I take 16mg a day so I am well over 4mg and I still feel my dose every time. 2: If your receptors are not fully covered at 4mg and by taking more you can cover more receptors why would you not feel more of an effect? Like when taking your doc, you get higher with larger doses and more receptors being covered so why is the same not true with sub and if it isn't then how do I feel my dose? I am not putting these questions on you I just really do not understand. I do not see how both can be true, either there is a ceiling effect at 4mg and you get no benefit by going higher or there isn't. I wish I could explain what I am saying better, it sounds much better in my head than when I am trying to write it out. If we are all different and can feel things at different levels and some of us need more and some less than how can the ceiling be true? I really wish Dr. J would weigh in on this and I would love to know the answer of how the 2 can co exist.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:13 pm 
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I will try to bring this thread to Dr. Junig's attention.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Hmmmm, if the ceiling effect stops at 4mg, then why does my doctor prescribe to me 24mg a day? I can only guess it is to control my chronic pain from my back injuries? But HOW does that work?

And is Suboxone or Buprenorphine, the ONLY medicine out there that has this ceiling effect?

I'm still a little confused also.


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 Post subject: Re: Retraction
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:43 pm 
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One more thing. My last doctor appt. I asked for an anti-depressant to help with my tapering. Maybe that will help with my cravings for Xanax. I think the reason I crave it is because it has a small amount of a SSRI in it so it makes me feel good, unlike say Valium. At least I'm pretty sure that's what I've read about it. Could be wrong on that one.

Xanax is in the benzodiazapen class,an SSRI is different.Xanax works with GABA in your brain to calm overexcitability.An SSRI Traps and helps to produce more Seratonin in the brain,2 different things.

I have also abused Xanax up until I started on the Sub.I have read and personally experienced that it can have an antidepressant effect on some people but technically its not one.As with my DOC,I built up tolerence to that.First used them to sleep then started taking them earlier and earlier in the day until I was eating them from morning till I crashed out at night.I had to quickly drop from 4mg to .50 when I started the sub because I was scared to mix.Thank goodness I can sleep with the Sub and without the Xanax,and that I dont really think much about them anymore.OH...PLEASE DONT GO THERE! We are addicts and you can oh so easy fall into that trap! Xanax is an insidious drug and the withdrawals are awful.Quit while you are ahead!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:47 am 
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after all is't the ceiling effect for just to stimulat the reccepters. so then the person could feel something like a buzz or a good feeling.and no more and it also helps stop over dose. so 1mg 34mg all most all the same effect in time? i hope i'm making some kind of cents :? ah i better read more


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:13 am 
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Hi Breezy, I understand what you are saying. What I posted is the science as i understand it. I, too, felt my dose even while above the ceiling, although I would never, ever have described it as euphoric. For me, it was just that if I was felling crappy it made me better, whatever that means. The last several months I've "felt" my dose as dysphoric and causing me to be very irritable. Thats why I'm in such a rush to get off it. According to what Dr. J said we really shouldn't feel anything if we're above the ceiling. But I guess everybody's different.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:22 pm 
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Yeah that's why I don't get it and I what I feel isn't euphoria either it's like a mellowing chill kinda feel. The "everybodies different" thing is where I get hung up. If everyone feels things at different levels and some require doses above 4mg how can they say everybodies ceiling is 4mg. In my mind the 2 can not coexist.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:43 pm 
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It's not that the ceiling is EXACTLY at 4 mg. It's at or around 4 mg and chemically speaking, we are all different, so there will be variations. Just like anyone can have any side effect from any medication. It's like the half life - where 37 hours is a MEAN, but it can be anywhere from about 24 to 72 hours.

That's about the best explanation I can give with regard to this particular part of the issue.

Oh and I did ask Dr. Junig to pop in and take a look at this thread. He usually does, but I know he gets scores and scores of emails a day (not to mention the videos, too, now).

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:51 pm 
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Yeah, I know it is around 4mg and I get that it could be a little different for everyone. But when I am taking 16mg everyday and feeling it, that is WAY above 4mg. So if we all can be that different it makes no sense to me that they could claim the ceiling is around 4mg. If I was talking about the difference between 4 and 6 or even 4 and 8 I could give them that but not 16. There have even been a few days my pain was bad enough that I took 24mg in a day and still felt it.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:48 pm 
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I am guessing that everyone's ceiling level, be it 4mg or 6mg or whatever, might be based on your body size and your weight perhaps.

I'm overweight, but I haven't been on Suboxone long enough to know what I'd feel like if I didn't take 24mg a day.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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