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 Post subject: I cant find my magic!!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:28 pm 
Well, im in my 19th month of bupe treatment. Huge accomplishment for me. No slip ups at all. However lately i've been having these thoughts where i wanna use. Crazy thing is, the thoughts arent even about opiates. Its about another drug which i use to be hugely into, to the point where it has almost killed me and have been to the hospital because of it. Im reffering to MDMA(or ecstasy). I always had insecurity problems and confidence issues etc. If any of you have taken ecstasy before, you will understand why i got into it so hard. It gives you the highest level of confindence and just outright an amazing feeling. Well, from the age of about 19 to 23 i was taking it 2 or 3 times a month or either every weekend to every other weekend and this went on for years. Its caused me health problems mostly due to the fact that these days people put so much trash in the stuff, that you cant always guarantee your taking the right thing. They put a lot of hallucinogens in it an all kinds of other BS. At my worst point with it, i was literally crazy. Psychosis basically. Paranoid all the time etc. Well, the good times on it were always enough to outweigh the bad times. Anyways when i started taking bupe, oddly enough it took away my urge not only for opiates, but all drugs including ecstasy. Lately though, i feel like the medication just doesnt work like it use to. I most definitely know it doesnt work like it did in the beginning. I must admit, personally for the most part of my treatment, bupe has always kept me in a great mood. Some may call it euphoria, i call it being in a good mood. Now, im not expecting to take the medication and all be well. I know thats not how it works. Its just that, i use to take bupe and never ever think about any drug. Now when i take it, i get a very small amount of drowsyness an thats about it. Its like i've used up all the magic. I also know all about the honeymoon stage but thats been gone for months. Hell that was gone shortly after i started it. I just dont know what to do though. Thats also why im coming here. Has anyone else taking bupe felt like its lost its magic? Now, i will say that their are times when it works great however now days most the time it doesnt. Has anyone ever gotten to where you feel like sometimes the med works, and sometimes it doesnt? It just doesnt make sense. I take 16mg's of namebrand subutex. Heres something a bit odd also. I was taking the generic subutex. For me, it wasnt working well at all. So, i switched to namebrand subutex and bam, back came the magic. When i first switched from generic subutex to namebrand subutex the "magic" came back for about 2 weeks to maybe a month. Now, here i am, ok somedays and not ok others. I will never understand it. Im taking the same medication yet sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. I have noticed that it works just a tiny bit better when i first get the prescription filled at the pharmacy. I keep the medication in the proper location and it doesnt move except when i take my med each day. Its sitting on my dresser in my room. Away from heat, moister etc. Theirs probably more than one question in this post so feel free to comment on anything you can relate to or know anything about in it. Thanks!!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:12 pm 
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I have the exact same stories helped my meth addiction and my pill addiction and i quit smoking when i came off sub my first time. Wow! Now it like you say i've been back on it for about six months and the last two or so not so great. Some days its fair. What i do remember when i tapered off my first dance with it i got down to a sixth of a 2 mg tab twice daily and it worked just like an oxy at that dose. I've been on about 3/4 to 1 tab a day for about three or 4 months so im going to try to go down to a half. I've done it for two days now and no problems. Im going to take two mgs at lunch and two about 3 or4 pm. If you want to give it a shot with me let me know! Wade


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:41 pm 
Lifesaver I feel that same way so much its like you were reading my mind. Some days Im happy with how subs work but the majority I feel like "this isnt helping at all why am I continuing to take this med and keep myself addicted for nothing". Part of it I believe is the atrocious waste of medication by the poor bioavailability. Absorbtion seems to vary so much and be hit and miss. Some days I'll get perfect absorbtion and others I feel like i didnt absorb anything. Bupe is the biggest pain in the ass when it comes to dosing. Anyways yea like you said "it lost its magic" and I say it all the time but I will be getting off suboxone and onto methadone. Methadone will work better FOR ME in every single way imaginable and the only thing preventing me right now is the cost because its about 300$ a month so a little more than my suboxone treatment but once I get a job Its bye bye suboxone and hello methadone. Subs dont cut it anymore and I feel like if I dont get on methadone soon I will relapse. Im just not that gung ho about staying clean anymore and I do everything I can for my recovery. 3 times intensive outpatient a week, meetings, suboxone etc and Im getting discouraged. I cant wait to get on methadone and just be like "aaaaaaahhhhhhhh this is what it feels like to actualy not have cravings". Ive never had my cravings completely removed by suboxone like some people claim I wish I did though but its not the case.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:54 pm 
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Nice knowing ya suboxone owned. Wait till something happens and you have to withdraw off done because it cannot be done even if you get a months worth of take homes. I hope that doesn't happen to you. There's just to many scarry hangups with done i've been on it for two years. They completely control your life at those done clinics. Never! !! Again!!! Im happy eighty percent of the time on sub and the less i take the better it works for depression severe pain and cravings. Go bupe!!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:29 am 
I know exactly how the clinic works and the "nice knowing ya" comment is bullshit. Thats just as much propaganda as the anti suboxone crowd spews except your saying it about methadone. Ive known plenty of people who done both high dose bupe mainatenance and methadone maint. and they all say dont be fooled by all the people who claim suboxone is sooooo much easier to get off. They said they noticed very little difference in the withdrawal and that suboxone withdrawal is almost as or as bad as methadone withdrawal. Ive also listened to pod casts of doctors saying the same thing. If Im gonna suffer when I get off of maintenance I might as well be actualy maintained with methadone instead of feeling like garbage everyday with bupe and still have to face the misery of withdrawal and months of PAWS when I get off. You can stick with your subs and I'll go with methadone, its my choice and its a better one for me. They also dont know much about suboxone in the terms of long term effects it could have. There is a reason pregnant women are encouraged to quit the bupe and switch to methadone while they are pregnant, because they know methadone is safe and they cant say for sure that bupe is completely safe.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:46 am 
I definitely feel you about wanting to switch to methadone but for me personally i just cant do it because its the reason i ended up taking bupe. However, i wasnt taking it through a clinic. I was taking it off the street therfor not getting a proper daily dose and going into withdrawal many days because i couldnt find anybody willing to get rid of any. I think methadone maintenance is perfectly fine if thats what it takes to keep you on the right path. I've told someone this before but, if someone told me they could run around their house 20 times a day every day and that would keep them off drugs, i would only ask them what size running shoes do they need lol. I 100% get it more than you know i understand how you feel about bupe. If i were to be completely honest, the reason i started taking methadone off the street in the first place was because i was tryin to stop taking oxy. I just didnt know much about methadone and in my eyes at the time i was only doing what the clinic did except i didnt have to go get it from the clinic everyday. It worked like a champion, when i had it. I didnt have a freakin craving in the world and i was super productive with energy out the ying yang but that day would come when i didnt have it and it would be pure hell. However, it was my fault for not going through a clinic. This site is supports any type of recovery even methadone so i didnt quite understand the "see ya" comment. If i misunderstood it please forgive me. Anyways, goodluck with everything and i really do hope things smooth out for you!!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:54 am 
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I've been there no need to get mad. Done got my life back on track only because its the best and strongest med made and nobody wants anything else .im telling you nobody can detox off done no matter how slow and work. I have came off sub and nobody knew it at my work as a meat cutter. Suboxone allows you to think half way normal, done is just a super pain med. I say you are going to go for it go for it if you can handle the withdraw in case of an emergency. I've seen a man almost die when he got pnamonia because the hospital would not give him anything and he was on sixty mgs of done with four take homes that ran out right before he went to the e.r. just be careful. And i ment nice knowing ya figuring you would probably not be on the site here on done not that you would die or s thing man


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:05 am 
Yeah I didnt mean to get offensive I just misunderstood your comment. But dude how can you say that "no one can detox of methadone" when you said you took it and now are on subs. Clearly you got off methadone then. But just to be clear I will probably never get off it and if I do I will of course lessen the blow with suboxone and use the subs for 2-3 weeks and be done with it for good if that day ever comes. The done clinic around here at least allows 30 day take homes after as little as 1 year of clean drug tests and group attendance. I didnt believe it when I first heard it i thougt it took several years for that but my buddy whos gone for a little over a year already has 30 day take homes because he has never dropped dirty once.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:16 am 
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Well if it wasn't for subs i wouldn't have i got down from 90 to 24 mg going one mg a week. When i got to 24 i switched to subutex. That's the first time in years i was a human being sort of. But we could get take homes also but it was three years to get a month. And if u didn't get the right so called counselor it could be ten years or never its their choice. But you can try it heck if there's nothing stopping you from it give it a whirl it does supercharge you for 24 hours no doubt! Take care and stay on this forum because it helps me no matter what gets said :D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:04 am 
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I only want to mention that pregnant women on suboxone are NOT normally switched to methadone. They are usually switched to Subutex, only because there is no need for the naloxone. The less medication the better. Bupe has been around for a very long time and there is no evidence of any long term negative effects.

Check out this article: http://www.nih.gov/news/health/dec2010/nida-09.htm

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Last edited by hatmaker510 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:33 am 
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There is no such thing as magic... You cannot look outside of yourself to be happy or feel good, There will never be enough opiates, booze, other pills to make you happy.. you will ALWAYS want more, and more , and more... I've had my ass kicked enough searching for this magic.. The only good thing is some days are better than others... GOOD LUCK , MIKE


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:37 am 
sullimi:

Magic is just termonology. And their is a certain time period where this medication does have a different effect to it. Its in the beginning which for me it worked as im describing for about a year. I was in the best mood every second of every single day for the first year. No im no depressed either. It just doesnt do what it once did. Im not saying its not keeping me from using drugs because it is. Its just that for a year i never once thought of touching a drug and now things have slightly changed. Nothing i cant handle but my mood strictly depends on wether the medication did what its suppose to do or not. Im not sure how long you've taken bupe but, if you have taken long enough you should somewhat know how i feel. It happens with any opiate. If you take an opiate every single day long enough, it loses its "magic." I hate to say this but, and its not that im looking to be high but bupe is like a tease for me. I take it now and it almost makes me wanna get high because its not giving me relief. It use to work so well for me and never once did i come close to thinking about any drug. Not now though. I catch myself thinking about drugs quite often now. That didnt happen the first year of taking bupe. These are all my own experiences so dont take it as im stating a fact. Its just how i feel. See, i've actually skipped 2 maybe 3 days once and took it that forth day and the "magic" was back. I've just chronically used bupe to the point that my body has almost become immune to it. I promise you, when i take it the absolute only thing that happens is i feel the slightest bit of drowsiness when i lay down to watch tv. No craving relief AT ALL. If i could stop taking it for a few days or actually for about a week maybe even a month, it would work great again for another month or so. But im not able to do that because clearly i would have WD's. Please, nobody bash me because you dont agree with what im saying. Its only the way "I" feel. Does anyone know exactly what chemical in the brain that opiates work on? Is it dopamine? Is their any way to restore whatever the chemical is without having to stop taking the bupe? Just curious. Its so crazy now days because, i dont feel regular happiness anymore. Im not saying i dont feel regular emotions because i believe i do. Happiness only comes if the medication does its job. Anyways, im sure many will disagree and thats just fine because i will state again, THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION AND MY OWN EXPERIENCE AND NOT FACTUAL INFORMATION SO PLEASE IF YOU WANNA BASH ME FOR THE WAY I FEEL, PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF THE ENERGY. Thanks for anyone who cares to read this!!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:40 am 
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lifesaver,

I understand what you're talking about as far as the 'magic' goes. I was on sub 3 years and the first year or so I definitely could feel them 'working', then slowly the effect diminished a little and leveled off. Being the good addict that I am, I kept chasing the initial sub feelings, but never got there. I finally got to the point where I threw in the towel and just took my sub as prescribed. By that time my cravings for other opiates had pretty much gone away and I was just 'coasting' with the sub until I decided to quit.

As far as restoring the original effects of sub...I don't have any ideas?

I hope the sub can somehow return its magic to you so you can continue forward with your recovery.

Good luck


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:15 am 
Oh i definitely take it as prescibed. I dont abuse it in any way shape or form. Im also coasting pretty well except for not getting the craving relief that i need. My life is in order and could not be better but i just wish the sub would work like it once did and in my opinion like it always should. I really wish i understood the way it works more than i do as far as what chemical its working off of in my brain. Clearly in the beginning their was a chemical in my brain that it was working off of that made me feel much more relief. I think its dopamine but im not sure. Oh, and only in the beginning did i try and take more than prescribed but i was so toxic then, that i was still trying to get high. After about the 2nd month that all leveled out and i have taken it as prescribed ever since. I dont know how things will work out at this point. I know that im not gonna allow myself to use drugs. I just wish so badly that this medication worked like it use to. As pricey as it is, you would think i was absorbing cold coins into my body. Anyways, thanks for everyones replies!! I will probably keep posting about this day to day hopefully finding a way to smooth things out. So, if anyone comes up with any ideas feel free to throw them my way.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:10 pm 
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I have to be honest...I have no idea what "feeling" you all are talking about. Other than my first 4-7 days on sub, I've always just felt normal. I can't feel it when I take it and I don't notice any effects dissipating over time. No effects whatsoever. I just thought I'd throw a different experience into the conversation.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:11 pm 
Thanks hat no prob... For the first year or so when i would take the medication, i could just feel the mental relief. A great mood. Pretty much the same mental feeling methadone use to give me except without the high. I use to take away all cravings and gave much relief to my mind and body. Now all of that relief is gone. I just cant understand it. Basically, bupe used to give me that relief feeling any other opiate would except without the high. That should definitely help you understand the relief im refffering too. Im pretty much just repeating myself in different ways in this post but im just tryin to help you see what im talking about. So like i said, the mental relief that yours/mine DOC gave me without the high. Thats the best i can explain it. Hope this helps. Oh, and it lasted for a good year or right over a year. Then it slowly faded away. Now, some days i get the relief im reffering to and most days i dont. Its crazy really


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Lifesaver
I do know this magic you post about, I lost that " good mood or euphoric feeling " while still using..way before Suboxone came into my life... Think about it.. Our D.O.C. let us down ( the tolerence thing ) NOT SUBOXONE.... Suboxone NEVER made me feel even close to how I felt when taking Pain Pills.... That is about 75% of my time using , OH yes there was magic, I had so much energy, I loved life so much and most importantly I slept like a baby.. Then the MAGIC left !!! For about 5 months I tried to get the magic back , I kept taking more and more pills but the magic was gone, I could only move on to a more potent opioid or quit. I chose not to quit but go on Suboxone... HEY lifesaver, this is a great thread, you seem like a good person, I don't know who scripts you your Suboxone but if the Dr is not a psychiatrist I'd find one who is for a while, talk this over, maybe there are some other issues you need to address, I'm like you, I want to feel good all the time, every second of every minute..... Suboxone is a salvage job for opiates, the opiates most people can take and stop, but not me


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:20 pm 
sullimi:

Thanks, i think lol Joking. Nah but i understand what you mean for sure. The thing where iwaskindaspoiledwas inever really lost the magic because my DOC was methadone. I always felt aaaamazing while taking it. However, when i couldnt get it(by the way i was taking it off the street) i would go through pure hell. Thats what led me to bupe. I went 6 days without methadone because it was required by my doctor in order too induce without PWD's. Then started bupe and like i said, i never really lost the "magic". I always felt bupe close to as good "mentally" as i did with methadone. Meaning it gave me the same craving relief. Bupe for a year gave me all the relief i needed without the high and thats what made it work so well for me. I still get some days where it will work fairly well but most days it doesnt. It does however keep me from using drugs and i am able to live a normal life but lately i've noticed myself thinking of using. I've been through more therapy than you can imagine. I had a mentally abusive childhood. Im not depressed and i cant imagine what a therapist could do for me and i say this because, i've been through that whole process many many times. All they wanna try to do is give you some more medication an send you on your way. Of course after talking to you, constantly nodding their head agreeing with absolutely everything you say. Although, now that i have good insurance i guess i could go to a psychiatrist thats actually worth going to. I may take that advice and run with it. Thanks!! Everything is all so clear to me now lol. Joking lol. But really, thanks for your input as well as everyone elses.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:42 pm 
hatmaker510 wrote:
I have to be honest...I have no idea what "feeling" you all are talking about. Other than my first 4-7 days on sub, I've always just felt normal. I can't feel it when I take it and I don't notice any effects dissipating over time. No effects whatsoever. I just thought I'd throw a different experience into the conversation.
The feeling I meant is the feeling of being content and not craving to use drugs. Ive never felt a buzz from it just the cessation of cravings but that is gone now and i crave on a daily basis. Its because of the low dose Im on but somedays i will take 8-16mgs instead of 4mgs and I still dont notice much difference so I dont know. Sub is so inconsistent because of how hard it is to get good absorbtion all the time. If only it had a 90% oral bioavailability like oxy and you could swallow it and get pretty much all the medicine out of it things would be so much better. Sub is such a messy pain in the ass to dose, I dont mind the taste but I loathe having to sit still for 30 minutes with a mouthful of spit not being able to swallow 2 times a day. Also not being able to eat for a half hour after you swallow it is a pain too. O well its better than being in withdrawal I just wish they would come out with a better way. A bupe nasal spray would be awesome I wish they would come out with something like that, double the bioavailability and no holding a bunch of spit in your mouth


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