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 Post subject: Cant figure this out
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Hello everyone, I'm having issues with my suboxone, I was cut off about 4 months ago and now have had to revert to getting them off the st. I have been on them going on 3 4 years, the last year using days i diddnt have my DOC. The issues I'm having are very peculiar. Firstly I'm on a low dose Maby 1-2mg a day. Why do i feel so crappy everyday? I've been stable on it, no relapses on anything but weed in 2 3 years. Why do i now constantly feel horible on it. All day mild to moderate cold sweats, I feel everything from withdrawl, even though I dose every day sometimes twice, already tried splitting the dose for am and pm. It's almost as if it never really takes the withdrawl away, but it's whats causing me to still withdrawl? Almost like the remedy and cause are the same. This medication is reeking havoc on my body,i can feel it. My whole endocrine system feels fcked or nervous system, just chills a lot of the day, sometimes ill do sub and it gets even worse after. Not to mention the headaches from it and my fcking teeth rotting out. I've spent months researching sub, I can tell you whatever you need to know about it, but this problem with myself and how I feel on it are beyond me, just wana see if anybody else experiences the same. Thanks I'm open to anything at this point, and would rather not deal with doctors spent years in doctors offices too so if I can avoid that I will. Not that the sub doc will know, because I had to tell him things instead of him helping me because he never did his own research.


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 Post subject: Not Sure Why
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Hi pw08,

It is very difficult to say exactly what is going on with you. When I first started reading your post I thought it was just mild withdrawals but you went on to say that the Sub makes you feel bad too so who knows what is causing your distress.

There has been a lot of controversy on whether Suboxone causes tooth decay or not. IMHO I just can't see how an opiate would do that, unless it's the Naloxone in it that is responsible. That drug I have not researched so it's hard to say. And we all know the problem with certain doctors not knowing as much as we do about Suboxone. In their defense I can only say that it is the way they were taught by the manufacturer (RB) and the rep that comes to their office regularly. Most of us have not had those problems but that doesn't mean it's not true. Maybe talk to an Endocrinologist and see what they say.

My only recommendation would be to find another Sub Dr. that you like and respect. They are not all the same and some know a lot more than others. Or maybe it would be best to taper down and get off the Sub and see if these problems go away. If you are that miserable on it then stop taking it. And that doesn't mean to go back to your DOC either. It's just a suggestion.

When you hit a wall, turn left. Don't keep hitting the wall expecting it to get softer.

Rule

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Don't take yourself so damn seriously


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:25 pm 
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You said you're getting sub off the streets, are you sure it's authentic? I don't even know if they make fake sub yet so this question might be moot but I had to ask.

I'm not completely surprised by your post as I had similar side effects towards the end of my maintenance treatments but a lot less severe. I developed anxiety and sometimes would feel like I was in w/d even after taking a dose. Overall it was pretty mild though and didn't start happening until a couple years in. The tooth decay could be from previous drug use/ hygiene. I used to throw up a lot during my active addiction years and I did a lot of damage to my teeth because of that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:11 pm 
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When I say off the street, I'm generally speaking, only reason I haven't stopped is due to the horrible withdrawal I get, let alone that baseline everyday withdrawal feeling. I have a good friend who gets over prescribed like most do and gets 3 a day so i just usually grab 1 or 2 here and there to get by, I'm not physically meeting dealers or jumped through hoops anymore so I justify it in my head, even though I know I'm just clean and not sober, there's a difference and my goal is to eventually be sober not clean like rite now. Thanks for the replays guys. Naloxone simply put doesn't matter because with research I've found out , with the very short half life and only absorbing through the duodenal part of the stomach if swallowed, it will never out compete bupe for your receptors. At least in people who don't do other opiates so i can't really blame it on the naloxone causing constant withdrawal because even if its absorbed it can't knock off or out compete the bupe. Bupes affinity is ridiculous. I will say its always the off body temperature, I get nonstop hot flashes i feel like a chick in menopause everyday it's horrible. I'm sweating as we speak and I've taken 1- 1.5mg just an hour or 2 ago.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:37 am 
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I'm sorry your feeling SO CRAPPY!!!!

I was HAPPY TO HEAR this from your post, though..... (bolded part especially)

i just usually grab 1 or 2 here and there to get by, I'm not physically meeting dealers or jumped through hoops anymore so I justify it in my head, even though I know I'm just clean and not sober, there's a difference and my goal is to eventually be sober not clean like rite now.

but Im confused, I mean, I myself, anyways, would consider myself "clean" and/or sober, as long as I wasn't
ABUSING the meds,,,,,,,, There's been MORE than one person post on here, where they lost thier dr. or plain just couldn't afford one anymore, and done things this way. while it's NOT ideal, all you can do is
TRY to get a new dr. IF that's what you want......
Know what I mean?
definitely don't let your ADDICTION "trick" your brain into saying, "this is NOT clean and/or sober, so NOW Im gonna get high!!!"

I'm just speaking from personal experience, when I've started thinking I wasn't clean ON suboxone,these other
thoughts come up, well WHY don't I just do it RIGHT then and get some ENJOYMENT OUTTA IT????
LOL

maybe I'm way off, if SO Im sorry.


Now, for the ORIGINAL questions,,,,
did your dose change drastically from losing your doctor?
cuz that could definitely be it
if you were taking say 12mg before losing your dr. and now your taking 1-2, you could feel crappy for AWHILE, honestly.

and if that's NOT IT, well then you wouldn't be the FIRST ONE to have side effects BEGIN, years into treatment.
that's one thing that scares the living CRAP outta ME, for one.
there has been members, that this happens to, kind of "all of a sudden" after two, three four years on suboxne.
I hate to say it, but it's true.


http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6096
I know there are MORE threads than just the above link addressing this issue, if this in FACT the issue
(side effects starting after years on suboxone)
BUT,
I can't seem to find any....... sorry.
THIS THREAD Im giving you the link to, I'll APOLOGIZE NOW, cuz there's alot of argueing in the front, begining.
It's just BS and skim that part,
there are afew people that describe the same as you, though.

So, I hope that helps,, if only a little.

I hope suboxone can CONTINUE to work for you, but I do think you need to get into a doctor, if anything
else, just a primary dr.
to MAKE SURE
you don't have something ELSE going on???
does that make sense??
I'm NOT trying to scare you, it's just there's NO guarantee, I could be WAY wrong and you might have
some serious health problem,,,, or something?

Okay, enough outta me for tonight.

please don't hesitate to post more, let us know how your doing,
okay???

hang in there

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Because 1-2mg is below the ceiling, a lot of people can "feel" this dose, but it's not necessarily a good feeling, it can actually be dysphoric rather than euphoric like full agonists. If its possible, try taking at least 4mg/day for a week or so, and see if it helps. Also finding a trustworthy doctor is a good idea.
Good luck,
Lilly


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:31 pm 
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You make a good point, while technically I am sober, I'm not shooting heroin anymore. And to me if I wanna eat 4 buckets of ice cream everyday I'm going to lol.. That's just my addictive personality. I'm fully aware of what it takes to get off, and the effort it takes on my part. when I said I'm just clean I'm still taking an opiate. Subs are partial opiate. There's a lot of controversy over wether some ppl in AA/NA think if your on sub your not clean. I'm not saying you are or you aren't. speaking for myself i still hang onto a lot of the old habits. Clean is still running around taking sub just not my drug of choice. Sober is a complete lifestyle change. People get hung up on that, some people will never be sober just clean and abstinent. In my logical way of thinking which in no way is what it is, but sub although doesnt cause euphoria is still very potent. In my humble opinion made my first mistake using it for maintenance for 3 4 years. Should only be used for a couple months in my situation becAuse i knew I was finished, I had had it. I was so sick of the life that I didn't keep jumping back on, I got clean Nd stayed clean. Sometimes it's hard but the sub for me at least worked for awhile but now it's just keeping me trapped. And I feel it keeps a lot of people trapped. I'm just thankful I'm not the guy that no matter what happens i just keep fucking up and shooting stuff. I'm 25 years old. Time to man up. Life's easy on sub other then the side affects. It's when I try and come off that it gets a little iffy. I'm so used to that constant skin crawling and achy ness, on top of my ADHD, bi polar and depression with some anxiety. People say ya know, and I agree that sometimes it's not good to come off if the patent is gonna possibly relapse. Sub is always the better road of the 2 but I'm not staying on it for 34 years to find out what long term side affects its got. I can tell u this med may not be rat poison but it ain't good for you either, I promise you that much because I've been on it 4 5 years i know what it's preventing from healing. So my advice to anybody is use it for tapering and off ,not Maintence if you can help it. Sometimes you have to though.but it's just so much harder to kick then.


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