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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:46 pm 
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I have found marijuana to be an essential tool in *my* road to recovery. It keeps my mind foucused on whats important in my life, and helps keep my mind free of any cravings at all. I am on suboxone right now as well. Before that I was in one methadone clinic for a year, relapsed for two months when my father passed away, then went back to another clinic for another year, now I'm here on 16mg suboxone a day(high dose because I just last week switched from meth to subs, but thats another story, I have posted it on this fourm). I have the mental aspect of my addiction beat. I don't mean to be cocky, but I mean to be confident. I am repairing my relationships with my family and friends, working again, and staying busy with many hobbies, including my veggie garden in the backyard, excersizing, walking my dog at the park, you know, things that are essential to getting back in the rythem of everyday life without being an addict. I don't suggest all recovering addicts go out and smoke weed as it can be a trigger I would assume, and everyone reacts differently to drugs. Keeping that in mind, it can have huge benefits if used responsibly, when applied to drug addiction. Not to mention it's completely harmless(smoking it has some risk of course, thats why I vapeorize my weed mostly) and has no lethal interactions with other drugs. I am hoping my suboxone doctor shares a similar view, or at least is rational about my situation, but I'm not optimistic. You would think any healthcare professional would be educated on each and every possible drug, and their applications, wouldn't you guys? But anyway, thats what i think. I am big into keeping healthy these days. I am clean now, but if I want to get high I use the natural option, that will not take over my life and make me it's slave, like opiates. May sound like a contradiction to some here, but I use weed as what it is, a medicine. But I will not lie and say i don't use it for recreation, and why is that bad? I am living my life that way i want, I'm happy. Some may call this want to alter your mind still, addict behavior. Does someone that has a glass of wine exhibiting addict behavior, or someone that drinks a cup of coffee? I think not. It's human nature to use mind altering substances, it's been going on for thousands of years, but yet the entire world are not addicted to drugs. Thats brings me back to responsible drug use. People are begining to realize the benefits of this plant(just not the pharmesutical companies, they ignore these finding because they cannot patent a plant, therefore claim it has no medicinal value, even though it's aleady been well documented that it has many medical applications)and that it should not be looked upon in the same way that it has been for so many generations, because of lies the goverment and media create. The method that the drug compaines use to determine the thereputic effectiveness of a drug is they measure how much of the drug is needed to produce the desired effect, compared to how much of the drug is a lethal dose. Therefor marijuana is the most thereputic drug known to man, considering the amount you would need to consume for it to be lethal is physically impossible(try smoking half your body weight in dried buds in a little over an hour. It won't happen but at least you'll have fun trying ) Psilocybin mushrooms have awesome potential to change your life for the better as well, used very carefully and resposnibly of course. It's being studied for addiction treatment, along with the ibogain treatment thats already in use, for addiction. It can allow you to step back and look at yourself, and your addiction from another perspective. Grant you insights, open places in your mind that you never have had. But I will save this for another topic maybe, lol. But my bottom line for this post is being responsible in the things we put in our bodys, and how we use them. If we all could have done that with opiates we wouldn't have lost our privilages to use them ever again. Do any of you fine people have an opinion on this subject? I'm sure you do!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:00 am 
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Hi Cutty. Interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up. I'm not one of those people who believe every recovering opiate addict must abide by complete abstinence. If a person can drink or smoke pot recreationally or occasionally without it causing them to backslide into active addiction, then I have no problem with that. In fact, even if I did have a problem with that, well, frankly it'd be none of my business. A person's recovery is their own and it's not my place to tell them how to live their life or handle their recovery. Now I'm fully aware that I'm likely in the minority around here, as many people do believe in complete abstinence.

Cutty, your recovery is your own. Only you know what your life is like now as compared to what it was like in active opiate addiction. You know the improvements you've made and what you still need to work on. I'm glad to hear you're confident in your recovery. I believe that in order to succeed we must be confident in ourselves. Good luck and keep up the good work.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:41 am 
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I was a huge pothead (my label for MYself only) for many years. For me it became an issue because I smoked it so compulsively, and I got to the point where I couldn't leave for work in the morning without smoking. I worked in a job with chemicals and reactors, and I knew I shouldn't be stoned in that environment. Every day I'd say I won't do it again, but I just couldn't get out of the house without picking up that bowl. So, I feel I was addicted to it, at least psychologically.

Around the same time I had a friend who had suffered a traumatic brain injury, and was partially paralyzed. Smoking pot actually helped him greatly, especially with spasticity, which he was finding hard to manage with pharmaceuticals.

And, like you said, some people smoke it like others can just drink a glass of wine. So having it (a plant) be illegal is stupidity. I heard that CT just decriminalized it.

When I smoked, I used a real potent hydroponically grown hybrid. I remember people thinking I couldn't be addicted to pot, but they hadn't smoked since the 70's, and it was a whole different (weak) experience then.

So I can see both sides. I think it really can be addictive for some people. For others it's no worse than having an occasional glass of wine. I think it's a good idea to be careful with a any mood or mind altering substance if you are an addict, but people have to make tier own decisions. Also, some Sub programs will kick you out if they detect THC in a drug test, so that's definitely a concern.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:18 pm 
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I think hatmaker said it best. I'm not the sort to judge, because I don't exactly live a life of complete abstinence. And even if I did it's not my place to judge anyone else.

I'm a bit confused as to why you chose to write this post though seeming as you're so confident in your choices and how well your life is going. Do you want us to say "what you're doing is okay"? Is some self-doubt creeping in and you want us to allay it? I don't know. Just seemed a bit weird, ya know.

Anyway. I've been a pretty bad pot smoker in the past. The last time I smoked was one month ago. I'm the kinda guy who can have a few buds sitting in his drawer and completely forget about it for weeks. But the funny thing is, when it runs out, there's a mild panic that kicks in for a day or two, like I've lost a security blanket that I might wanna use just in case. I know I can get addicted to weed as I was years ago. My motto used to be "it's easy to quit smoking, but it's easier to keep smoking." So I did.

I'm very wary of marijuana these days, as it undoubtedly contributed to me suffering a psychosis as a teenager which turned my life upside down, and led to me using opiates.

(PS: marijuana may be natural, but so is morphine, cocaine, opium, tobacco, alcohol, lithium, aspirin. arsenic, cyanide... I'm not saying marijuana is harmful, just that natural doesn't equal harmless).


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Yeah, it's a fucking joke that they would kick you out for smoking weed. I mean it's like they are saying do what we want you to do, or else we are taking your meds away and you're pretty much prone to a relapse or going back to the methadone clinic, and thats going backward for me. How can they tell me something thats helping me, not harming me in any way, is bad for me personally. We can give you this powerful opiate all day, but God forbid you use a plant that helps you just as much if not more then the suboxone alone. I'm not gonna get into a big rant about it, because I easily could. It's like, I really don't want to lie and keep secrets from the person who is supposed to be concerned about my health, no be a fucking probation officer, taking my urine all the time and then brining me to her office like a little kid in trouble to discuss how I have to stop useing marijuana. I could certainly understand her stopping my suboxone if I were saying these things about say...a bezo(xanax) or another opiate or drug that will interact with my suboxone. But it's just not there with cannabis. Well, i had better start saving up my suboxone films. I've got enough to take two a day untill the end of the month, 8mg. So I figure I'll just take one a day, and save the rest in case she decides to kick me out. What a joke eh? Now I've got to taper down by myself, and in a hurry too because of limited meds, and thats puts anyone at risk for a relapse, at least back to methadone. So thats where I'm at. I'm sure I'll get some comments saying WHY DON'T YOU JUST QUIT! I'll tell you why. Suboxone is the more harmful drug in this case, compared with marijuana. I'm not going to stop doing something that makes me happy just because out system is assbackwards and decides what people can and cannot use. Thanks for listening guys, I don't mean to come across as some pissed off asshole or anything. But this situation just gets to me at times, I know you can relate. Thanks guys! :) Also, HatMaker you are spot on with your comment bud. LillyVal, you also add to my previous point well, see how it can be very habit forming to some and literally life saving to others? Yeah, medical science needs to get with it. Thanks for the responses guys.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:40 pm 
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I posted this topic for the same reason most people do. For dicussion, this is a fourms right? Supposed to discuss topics. I don't have any hidden agenda. If I seek approval for what I'm doing, it certainly wouldn't be from people I don't know over the internet. Not to say i don't love reading peoples opinions, don't get me wrong everyone else! Keep posting :) Also, morphine, heroin, suboxone, and all the stuff you just mentioned is derrived from the naturally occuring poppy plant. The opium poppy is the only natural thing here. Now granted if you drink enough poppy pod tea or something, you will become dependant. But thats not the issue here. You cannot just go out and find a feild of heroin growing, or vicoden pills or suboxone. It's all synthetics, derrivatives of this plant. Marijuana is about the only psycoactive substance that doesn't need refining, or added chemicle reaction to create the said drug(such as cocaine) So think about that next time you say it's all natural. And as for your freaking out about not having a joint, I dunno how you guys that cannot go without weed ever kicked opiate addiction. I mean, when i don't have weed, or can't smoke I miss smoking a joint, but I don't freak out about it. I suppose I have mentally conditioned myself to think otherwise about it. What i tell people that say they are weed addicts, is to go and try a real addiction, thencome back and tell me how addicting you think weed is after you've been through that. and did you know the majority of people in rehab clinics are there for WEED! But they never tell you why that is. These people are not voulentarily checking themselfs in, they are found by the police, with a small, personal use bag of weed, and then when their court dates comes they are offered wither jail, or a treatment center. Hmm, now thats an obviouse choice. The people that do voulentarily check themselfs in claiming an addiction to marijuana, have many other mental issues that need to be resolved. Thats what i think


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:55 pm 
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"What i tell people that say they are weed addicts, is to go and try a real addiction, then come back and tell me how addicting you think weed is after you've been through that."

Yes, that's what I was told when I was addicted to weed. I'm pretty much one of the people you were talking about above. I failed a random drug test at work, and I voluntarily entered a program before they could take action against me. But I eventually got away from recovery circles because people thought that being addicted to weed was a joke. Now I wish I had been able to accept what they say in NA, "it doesn't matter what or how much you used...". Over a period of years I went on to an intractable opiate addiction. For me, it doesn't matter if it's weed or oxycontin, I'm just trying to change the way I feel. I was fully functional on both weed and opiates, but I was always trying to escape from myself.

So, Cutty, I totally understand where you are coming from. If you are in a good place in your recovery you shouldn't have to worry about getting kicked off Sub for smoking a joint. After reading about your PO I can understand why you are upset (you're not the only one on this forum dealing with this). Is there any way you can have it both ways, like don't smoke for a week to 10 days before you see your PO? Or do you have to check in too often for that?
Anyway, if you can find it in your heart, please don't tell potheads (who are usually kids) to go and try a real addiction, because they will.
Hope it all works out,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:34 pm 
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Come on now. It's quite obvious that I;m not encouranging "young potheads"(dunno where ya got that) to get addicted to opiates just to see how hard it is to quit. I am not encouranging anyone to do anything except find their own way forward. I've made this perfectly clean in all of my posts about this subject. Sorry for the misunderstanding. By the way i'm not on Probation(dunno where they came from either) I'm just worried about my sub doctor Taking me off my pills, for smoking a joint, and if that happnes I'll either find another doc, thats rational. Or try to taper down myself with the remaining suboxone I have. anfd that is NOT a very good situation. I don't wanna risk relapse to the methadone clinic, or worse yet, some other street opiate(heroin was my drug of choice, but I proably would look for oxys or something if I was in bad enough pain.) I dunno what i would do at that point, I would HAVE to use pretty much, coming off 16mg suboxone cold turkey. It just seems like it's so easy to be back at square one with the wave of a pen from your doctor. Lets hope for the best here guys. because honestly I would much rather smoke pot the rest of life then be on suboxone(not bashing it in anyway, it's helping me greatly) I just feel as if they are kind holding my addiction over my head, like they did at the methadone clinic when you owed them money. I dunno, we shall see. I will make it, I always have in the past. :) Thanks guys


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:56 pm 
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I think I misunderstood one of your previous posts (I think you implied your doc is LIKE a probation officer, testing your urine). For what it's worth I've been on Sub for 20 months now and my doc has never given me a urine test. So, there's always the possibility of finding a new doctor. I guess only you can decide if the weed is important enough for you to do what it takes to keep smoking it, or conversely, sacrifice something for it, like your Sub (probably not a good idea).

I've read all of your posts and you remind me a lot of me back when I was heavily into pot. For me it was more than just a smoke. It was cultural and political and something I would go to great lengths to defend. It just doesn't work for me anymore, and when I think about it, I'd like to someday feel the same way about opiates. I never thought I would get to the point where I could say, "I used to smoke pot". So maybe there's hope that someday I'll say, I used to be into opiates, or I used to be on Sub.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:19 pm 
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hey thats whats up Lilly. We will all be able to do what we want, including getting off subs. If I just used marijuana recreationally I would have no problem quitting to keep my subs(even though it's still nonsense they you cannot, as an adult, put what you would like into your own body) But I use it medicinally as well. I feel it keeps my cravings for other drugs(including alcohol) and my triggers to a very low minimum. I also use it for little things here and there, I do have hep C but not many symptoms. So I'm not gonna lie and play the fake sickness rountine, to get my weed. I view marijuana as just as valuable to my recovery as suboxone are, even more so because it's helps with mental addiction mainly, but also physical. Even more so then suboxone at this point, I feel suboxone right now is just furthering my physical dependance on opiates, thats why I am tapering. I don't need them any longer for the mental aspect you know? So I will explain this to my doctor, and hopefully things will work out. If not, i dunno. I would hate to have to risk relapsing to the mehtadone clinic because I'm so sick. i thought about saving my subs and tapering quickly myself, bad idea. I hope it won't come to that, worse comes to worse I'll find another doc. Thanks guys :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:28 am 
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I did a very quick Google search for "marijuana studies as cancer cure". The first hit I got was this:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 193338.htm

It's from 2007 and is a study that showed that THC shrunk lung cancer tumors in rats and mice. VERY INTERESTING!

I, too, had known nothing about marijuana being studied as a cancer treatment, so I had to look it up for myself. As I said, this was only a cursory search, but I did want to share at least this one article I found by American Association for Cancer Research.

Cutty - Thanks SO much for sharing this with us. As they say, we do learn something new each day. And today what I learned was thanks to you. Take care! :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:43 am 
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It seems that the discussion about marijuana as a possible cancer cure was on a different thread, but I'm going to leave my comments here.

I found an even more interesting article that I think you guys should read if you're even the least bit interested in this topic. This one talks about two studies showing THC inhibiting the growth of cancer tumors and how the studies were shut down, by I believe it said the DEA and how there was a virtual media blackout.

http://www.healthiertalk.com/two-mariju ... about-3361

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:57 am 
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What do you guys think about me combining this thread with Cutty's other marijuana thread? They're both about the same thing pretty much and it gets confusing with two topics on the same subject from the same member at the same time.

Let me know.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:11 am 
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I agree, let's merge 'em.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:15 am 
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When I was younger and trying to get clean I continued to smoke pot. I figured it was better than taking the pills. I swore I'd smoke till I was 90yrs.old. If I lived that long. Each time I relapsed.

This time go round I had I knew I'd have to change everything in my life. That included smoking pot. The other way I couldn't stay clean. It would always lead me back to the opiates,even when I was on Suboxone. It meant stop hanging out with many ppl and even some family members.

I don't think anyone is trying to be hostile here. I think many of us have gone done that route and would always come back to the same result....Relapse.

This is just my experience and my opinion only.

I wish you the best in your journey.

Marie


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:52 am 
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Morphine is natural. Morphine naturally occurs in the opium plant. When someone smokes opium, or drinks poppy tea, they're basically consuming morphine. Cocaine naturally occurs in the coca plant. When someone is chewing coca leaves, they're basically chewing a leaf which contains cocaine.

I didn't mention heroin, or vicodin, or oxycontin. Because they're not natural.

I don't know Cutty. I'm not saying your choice to smoke marijuana is bad. But you did ask for people's opinion about whether it was "okay", and I gave you my opinion, and you got a bit defensive. I wasn't "having a go at you" at all. Hell, I even had a smoke this weekend when I went out to the country with my friends.

Don't kid yourself though. Marijuana, even when vaporised, isn't "harmless". No drug is totally harmless. But not even that, marijuana is not very good for things like memory, and motivation. Also spending most of one's day in any altered state of mind leads to a person becoming distant from others. Basically consciousness turns inwards, and people become a part of their own universe. That applies to all mind / mood altering drugs.

The most natural and "harmless" state for our body to be in is totally drug free. That's how our bodies evolved to function. And when any drug is introduced it throws our internal homeostasis out a bit, which is why people who smoke heaps who then give up can be a bit edgy for a week or two.

If you find marijuana a lesser evil to vicodin / heroin / whatever ur poison was, then awesome. I agree. My life would be heaps better as a smoker than a smack head. But being completely drug free beats it all.

Take care man, and I hope it works out for you.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:04 am 
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Hehehe, wow. Didn't expect to find these comments when I logged on tonight. :) I'm glad HatMaker decided to take it upon

himself and at least do a simple search about one of the points I was attempting to make the other day, and look what he came up with with!

Thanks Hat, you truley make this fourm a great place to be! But as for putting the two topics together I say whatever makes things more convienient, by all means lets do it!

I'm glad I could enlighten a few people on this subject. Thanks for keeping an open mind guys, and thanks for reading my thoughts on opinions. I accept feedback either way, but I do not accept ignorance and hosility, I and I know most of you guys would agree.

So glad I found this fourm :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:25 am 
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TearJerker, once again man great point. I didn't mean to make it sound like weed is the cure all, bust thing ever. Of course
introducing any substance into your body is going to change it a bit, however insagnificant or otherwise. But I'm not so certain about harm, if used in moderation.

Also, I'm sure I've mentioned that *I find marijuana(especially sativas) to be very energizing and motivating. I have coffee
in the morning and a smoke, and I can hardly wait to get off the computer and go in the yard or whatever. I'm sure the
coffee contributes :)

Also wanted to say that another huge key to recovery is changing the people you surround yourself with. I have cut many people out of my life recently, but they were only useing friends, not real ones. Now if I hang out with someone as a friend, it's either my brother of the guy I've known since kindergarden, and has never used. Basically my other brother....from another mother :P

Thanks for listening guys, see ya! :D


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