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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:14 am 
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I don't know! But I like to think that I've got some control over it. I mean, a positive attitude can be everything... but opiate withdraws is a serious medical issue that people can die from! Deepak Chopra seems to know a lot about these things and this episode of Oprah was re-aired yesterday and it brings up a lot of controversial questions. I like to think that Deepak is right in saying that our thoughts are turned into chemicals that bring about physical reactions in our body... but can it really help with withdraws or PAWS?

The video is 45 minutes long. But if anyone is interested in Deepak Chopra or the connection of the Body and Mind and Spirit, this is the video for you.

http://www.oprah.com/own-super-soul-sun ... opra-Video

Some say that stressing over the withdraws can make them worse. I suppose this video could provide some insight into that thought. I can't say that excusing science is at all the right thing to do. Science is science, and inputting chemicals can have just as powerful effects as the chemicals you release from your thoughts - therefore, the result of not taking the chemicals in anymore (opiates) will certainly have bad consequences! Can our minds really do anything about this?

*Just something to think about if you are like me and get worked up in between doses and the tapering process*

Any first-hand experience from anyone?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:16 pm 
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I guess I wouldn't completely discount what Mr. Chopra has to say, I do think our attitude towards wd will play a part in how bad our wd is.

A question I would ask him, if I could, is this: If you were to take two people who had the same "power of mind", one of them jumped off Suboxone from 20mg and the other jumped off of Suboxone from .2mg.....would they experience the same level of wd? I think the answer is an obvious no.

The amount of wd we're going to experience has a LOT more to do with how much of that drug we have in our system and how long that level of drug was in our system. A person who tapered down to .2mg over the course of a year and has been at that .2mg level for months will have a much easier go of it than the person at 20mg.

Now, if we're comparing two people who both jump off at .2mg, then I would say the person with the positive mental attitude would have the edge.

As powerful as our thoughts may be, I think the best way to minimize wd is to taper off that medication.

PS---John Frusciante RULES!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:38 pm 
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I 100% wholeheartedly believe that your mind can control your body. I suffered from a serious over active bladder for a couple month that had me in the hospital five different times in one week. I had every test done known to mankind all to find out even after having a camera pushed through my urethra that everything was perfectly fine and it was my mental health. Well started getting mental health treatment what do you know the problem went away. My ocd had my body so convinced that this was a physical problem that I didn't sleep for five nights straight because it was so bad. And like I said this problem that ruined my life for a long time went away in the snap of a finger once I stop living in my head.

As to opiate withdrawal I also firmly believe your mind plays a huge role in how bad things will get. For example I dealt with suboxone withdrawal three times. The first two times I wanted to kill myself, worst withdrawal I've ever dealt with in my 12 years of opiate use. The third time I was detoxing off suboxone to start methadone and the withdrawal was no where near what I felt the first two times. And I firmly believe they weren't as bad because in the back of my mind I knew I was starting methadone a couple days later. And it was the same during my active addiction. Say I ran out of meds three days early those first two days were a living hell. But that last day was a piece of cake compared to first two all because I knew that I was going to be getting 90 oxys and 60 fentora pills. I can't explain that other than my mind taking over.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Hey Bboy,

That's an excellent point you brought up. I clearly remember several times during my pain pill use where I ran out of meds or was very close to running out and my mind ran wild with thoughts of wd. I remember one time I had ran out and it was about 12 or 18 hours I had gone without meds. I was feeling pretty crappy and all of a sudden my phone rang, it was my drug dealer calling me to tell me he had more and INSTANTLY I felt better!! I didn't even have any pain meds in me yet, but just knowing I was about to score made me giddy with excitement.

But, I also remember a time where I had gone without meds for 3 or 4 days. My doctor finally called me in some more, I went and got them and it was honestly 1 or 2 full days before I really felt better?

I'm gonna ask you this next part and I'm honestly not asking you this question to be a smart ass, I'm just asking a question. You believe in the power of your mind over your body, so why don't you quit taking Methadone and use the power of your mind to eliminate any wd and use the power of your mind to deal with the pain conditions you suffer from?

Do you see where I'm coming from? Again, please don't think I'm trying to be a smart ass, I'm just asking an honest question.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:50 pm 
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It astonishes me what people come out with. You only feel excited if a drug dealer calls or you know you will get an opiate, but it does nothing to help the psychical pain, the excitement lasts merely for couple of minutes.

Withdrawals from suboxone can never be avoided, I really wished people stopped being indenial about this and simply get off the suboxone ASAP or not start it in the first place.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Hessler said, "Withdrawals from suboxone can never be avoided"

I know two people personally who tapered down their Suboxone use, jumped off at .5mg and experienced no acute wd and no PAWS.....how do you explain that?

It looks like I just completely invalidated your silly claim.

BTW, I was on Suboxone for 3 years. Suboxone helped me to end a life long addiction to drugs. I had tried to quit drugs other times, but failed miserably every time. I'm currently 2 years, 2 months and 16 days off of Suboxone and I feel quite normal.

DoaQ, a moderator here, has been off of Suboxone for just over 3 years now and she felt pretty damn normal after only a few months.

I have other examples I could give you, but you're not interested in them, so I'll just stop there.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:24 am 
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Hessler - You really don't know what you're talking about. I tapered down to 12.5 micrograms of Sub berfore I jumped 2 1/2 years ago and felt no withdrawal or PAWS whatsoever. You can read about my experience in Diary of a Quiters liquid taper thread.

Also, I want you to know that I didn't post this for you. I only responded because I wanted to make sure that people seeking advice got the proper information. Please do yourself a favor and do a bit of research berfore you make any more bogus claims about sub withdrawal.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:14 am 
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I like deepak, and our thought's do install themselves in our body and surroundings, and durring detox those deposits are released. It's that closed circuit thought pattern that goes around and around, that needs to change. And whats a thought? A minute electrical signal that activates a certain part of our brain that activates parts of our body.
Like when I think WD my heart rate rises and I sigh as if it's another battle to be fought to regain the same ol' same ol'. But if I introduce new thought patterns, aimed at a totally new life, where the same ol' same ol' doesn't exsist, then maybe the hardship of WD won't seem so bad.
I don't know much about other folks here but, but I'm lacking gut power in this regard, cause I know just quitting dope is just part of the problem. Neglected relationships, purpose, assest's etc etc,,, life in general needs overhauling,,,and that might cause a little bit of drama for other parties. It seems to be comming to that anyway.
Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:13 am 
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hessler wrote:
It astonishes me what people come out with. You only feel excited if a drug dealer calls or you know you will get an opiate, but it does nothing to help the psychical pain, the excitement lasts merely for couple of minutes.

Withdrawals from suboxone can never be avoided, I really wished people stopped being indenial about this and simply get off the suboxone ASAP or not start it in the first place.



Maybe not for yourself but I have to serious injuries and been a pain management patient for 12 years. And when I knew I was going to get my oxy and fentora scripts filled the next day. not only did my withdrawals go away but my pain that was even worst because of being dope sick for 48+ hours would lessen so much because of knowing tomm I'll be getting my meds.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:46 am 
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Can a person cure their cancer with the power of positive thought? Some people have claimed it.

I think having a positive approach to any mental or physical ailment can make managing it easier to bear. ie "Fuck my knee hurts" .... *thinks to self* "shuddup TeeJay it ain't that bad. get off your ass and do something instead of bitching and moaning."

IMO a person who approaches opioid withdrawal with a positive outlook will still be experiencing the same level of chemical imbalance in the brain as one who wallows in it, the same level of pain stimuli as the opioid receptors rapidly downregulate ... and no amount of cognitive adjustment can change it.

But having a positive outlook can ease the perception of that pain, how they choose to deal with it, and whether they focus on it or try and think about other things. And perhaps if the withdrawal is mild enough, their dose of Sub low enough, adjusting one's thinking like this might be enough to make the withdrawal symptoms virtually unnoticeable.

But for those who jump off higher doses of Sub / methadone maintenance, from experience I've found the symptoms are so intense that CBT can't help much. The only way I could really deal with it was to put myself in some kinda masochistic head space and take the pain like some kinda challenge. I'd have this mantra running through my head like "feel the pain. love it, live it, breathe it." Whenever I stopped thinking it or I forgot to, I'd get this image of a circular saw slicing through my skull and I'd hear this German word like "zuttt zutttzzergitzen" in my head that was like hard nails scratching the blackboard and I'd feel the cold of my detox sweat evaporating and start shaking and kicking. My mantra was a lesser evil. That particular Sub withdrawal was when I started to embrace the pain of opioid withdrawal, which helped me survive the few after.

When withdrawal is happening, there's some pretty fundamental imbalances being corrected at a level of our brain (consciousness?) much deeper than our cognition. So I hold grave doubts that a person with a big opioid habit to methadone or Suboxone could "think" their way outta withdrawal.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:08 pm 
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Gee, guess I better bust out some Rammstein in the painful days :P


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Being positive definitely won't HURT! I've been somewhat dreadful and negative and this withdrawal process in day 6 has been horrible for me. I dread waking up to face my withdrawal symptoms.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:12 am 
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hessler wrote:
It astonishes me what people come out with. You only feel excited if a drug dealer calls or you know you will get an opiate, but it does nothing to help the psychical pain, the excitement lasts merely for couple of minutes.

Withdrawals from suboxone can never be avoided, I really wished people stopped being indenial about this and simply get off the suboxone ASAP or not start it in the first place.


I am so glad to hear that we as a forum have astonished you. This seems like quite the unatainable goal, and we accomplished it. We should all be taking lessons from you, so that we could stop being in denial about the fact that withdrawl cannot be avoided, and get off the suboxone ASAP. Or better yet, not start it in the first place.

I'm not quite sure what you are even DOING on this forum. You are like a black cloud just looming over every thread just waiting for the opportunity to bring everyones great mood, down to your miserable level. You should really go ack to where ever it is that you came from, probably some sub bashing site.....

Leave us alone. We are all here for support and credible, reliable, information. You offer neither. All you do is clog up the threads with nonsense.

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