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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:54 am 
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[font=Arial]First of all you are not going to like what you are about to hear nor will you agree with it. I am already aware of that so please just spare us both the time. I know all of the things I am doing wrong without a doctor but right now I am doing what I can. I cannot afford a doctor right now and I have no insurance. And I don't even really want to talk about that. All I know is what I am trying to do is WAY better than driving over 30 miles one way 4-5 times a week to a really bad part of town so I can spend thousands of dollard per month of money that I DO NOT have is WAY worse then picking up a few SuB's without a script.
So anyway here is my question for those of you who would know or have tried this or have any experience with it. I am trying to pull myself off of about a 10-12 percocet 10/325 a day habbit I have had for a few years and I absolutely cannot do a C/T withdrawl again. I have done the CT rout about 4-5 times and the last time I really wanted to kill myself (and I am not a suicidal type person) that and a bunch of other bad things makes me know 100% C/T is not an option so please don't even suggest it. And weening down is really not an option I can concider right now because I cannot afford the 140+ pills it will take me to last until my next refill of 120. And switching to OC for the next few weeks is not an option either because I HATE Oxy's. So I picked up 10 8mg Suboxone's from my friend to try and start my detox from all of this again becuase I simply hate being on any pain meds anymore. My plan is to take a 2mg slice tomorrow afternoon when my w/d have started (im getting one more good night sleep tonight with my percs). So my question is If I can do 2mg a day (and maybe 4mg a day for the first few days) and then do a ween down the second week from 2mg to 1 to 0. And then after the 14 days how do you think I will be doing? Lets say I quit C/T after that, do you think my W/D from the Subs will be bad? As bad as the percs would be? remember I CANNOT do really bad W/D again. It takes me to some serious dark places that I won't survive again and I mean that 100% or I would not even being trying this route.
Thanks for any advice.

I was not trying to be a b-hole in the first part of my post but I have already been lectured on another forum and I really don't need that. And YES I will be searching for another therapst, my last one was worthless for me and I will prbably do some 12 step stuff and also be positing on here like crazy. The more I ready about the long term benifits of Subs I am warming up to the idea but would really like to try this first. Because long term therapy means $$ that I don't have riht now for a doctor and the pills. My perc habbit has drained my $$ for quite a while. But maybe in my future if this one last ditch effort does not work I can maybe look into it. Either that or let the subs take me to my next refil then switch back to the percs and ween off pretty aggressivly. [/font]


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:06 am 
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Hello TheRoyalG and welcome. You are not the first person to come on this forum and ask this question. Unfortunately anyone who has tried it the way you want to do it simply never came back to tell us how it went (at least as far as I recall). It sounds like you already have your plan in mind. No one here can give you any definitive answers as to how you'll do after a very short sub treatment/detox. I will say that if it's possible, you might want to go even lower than 1 mg before you stop this stint with sub. You might not feel any w/d this way or you might have plenty - there's no way of knowing how you'll respond.
I'm sorry, but that's just the way I think it is.

Studies have shown that short term sub treatment has a pretty high rate of relapse. Keep in mind that suboxone is merely a tool, it is not an addiction cure-all.

I do hope if you do it this way that you keep us posted on how it goes. Oh, and one more thing, if at some future point you do consider longer term treatment, please be aware that there is a patient assistance program through the manufacturer that covers your medication for one year. It's for people without insurance. Info about it is posted in the "Links" section.

Good luck and again welcome to the forum.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:06 am 
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TheRoyalG,

I am sorry I didn't get to this post until now. I'm not sure if you are still around or not because you haven't posted back again as far as I can tell. I just thought I would at least acknowledge your post and say that Melissa is correct in my opinion. I will go out on a limb and say that the 2 week taper plan isn't likely to work or eliminate your withdrawals. I am also afraid that the dark place you have experienced before comes less from the physical withdrawal part than the PAWS you are likely to experience for a while. I hope you take Melissa's advice and try to look into the patient assistance program and at least try to buy a few extra subs to help with your taper. I do wish you the best and hope you will return to let others know how this worked for you. I also hope you stick around to get some support and some of the knowledge from this group of people. When people are willing to put out there where they are really at like you did, often someone here can find an answer that otherwise seemed impossible. You never know.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Man I am really afraid of taking this dose! You guys don't even know! My dealer just called and said he had some OC 40's maybe I should just buy those to hold menthe two weeks till my next script. They were cheap enough. I don't know, I'm getting really hot here and it's going to be about time to do something. I am just really afraid to take any if this sub for some reason. I guess I'm afraid of how I'm going to react to it and also I'm afraid of going long term. I just don't know what to do I could scream I'm so disgusted with it all. I hear these subs are HARD to get off of long term and I don't know if I want to go that rout. I am really stuck here. I don't want to use these subs in a bad way but I really want off of the percs. I'm sitting here looking at the pills and don't know what to do. What a disaster :(


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:37 pm 
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I can tell you what to expect from suboxone based on my experience as well as others' - it will end your active addiction, the lifestyle, chasing a fix - the whole thing. As long as you're in sufficient withdrawals from the regular pain meds (full agonists), then you'll be fine to start it. Most people describe feeling "normal" after taking it.

Also, sub does cause dependency, but according to many people I've heard from (I'm still on them) it's NOTHING compared to w/d from full agonists.

You are the only one who can decide what direction your life will go in right now. You can try to make a healthy change or you can go back to the chaos, the status quo. Whatever you decide, I sincerely wish you the very best. Please let us know.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Screw it I might as well try it. I probably have a few hours maybe one I don't know until I am in serious w/d. Right now I am on the verge. Feeling really shady but not yet terrible but it's coming fast. I am just going to start with like 2mg how long do I hold it under my tounge? Just until it dissolves?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:53 pm 
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Make SURE you're in withdrawals BEFORE you take it, otherwise you'll be hating life. Check your pupils, they should be dilated. What other symptoms do you have? If you are not in w/d, then you'll be shot into what's called precipitated w/d...and they are miserable (I've been told).

And yes, keep it in your mouth until it dissolves then don't eat or drink for 15 or so minutes for maximum absorption. Good luck. :)

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:00 pm 
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Great I just spit out a 1.5 mg chunk after reading that last post lol. It got about 90% dissolved then I spit it. I started questioning if I was far enough into w/d. So now what ?? I guess I'll just wait a bit to see what happens.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Man now I am swearing like crazy. I was feeling ok for a minute then it felt like I had flutters in my chest and I think that threw me into a panic attack. I just took a klonopin to help with nerves. My hands are like ice now. And i have to stop by work in a few. Sucks. I kind of feel a little light headed also. Thinking about taking a perc just to see if it settles me down.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:27 pm 
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I would urge you not to go back and forth. Please give it a bit more time. What were your pupils like before you took the suboxone and what are they like now? It's a good indicator. Also, feeling a bit light-headed is pretty normal.

Can I say one more thing - this very situation you're in now is the exact reason that doctors should be overseeing an induction. I'm sorry - I'm not trying to be an asshole here, really I'm not, but for lurkers/guests to this forum I thought it necessary to point that out. I have a feeling you already knew it.

Again, good luck. Keep the updates coming.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Pupils right now are on the smaller side. And am sweating pretty bad. Before I took it I didn't look at my eyes. I was just feeling really crappy. Hot and starting to sweat a little now I feel terrible and sweating like crazy. I only dissolved about 1.5mg about 90%. WhAt the heLl. Maybe this stuff is not for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:58 pm 
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Well I am feeling 100% better now. Man that was bad. I took a total of 35 mg of percocet about 30 mins after my sub debacle and I feel like a million bucks. Weird. 35 mg of percs would never make me feel this "normal". Maybe it was the combo? I don't know but that was crazy. I think I might just try to ween myself down with a taper plan. I am very discouraged and dissapointed right now. But I'll find a way out of this I'm sure.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:14 pm 
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If you got any of the suboxone in your system i bet that's what is making you feel "normal". I'm reluctant to post in here but I got on suboxone on my own at 1st, not that I recommend doing it. Couldn't believe how normal it made me feel for the 1st time in forever. Be careful mr g..


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:20 pm 
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Is sweating really badly "normal" side effects? Because if not
I think I started the sub too early and put myself
Into w/d. I may try it one more time. Not ready to give up totally yet.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:19 pm 
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Yes, sweating is a normal side effect of suboxone.

Look, I don't want to discourage you, but I also don't want to patronize you.

Your plan is.....well......not ideal.

In fact, I'd be shocked if you last a month after your suboxone is gone before you're back on opiates.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think it's the right thing to do to not give you honest, objective feedback.

I WANT you to succeed, but this just isn't the way to do it, my friend.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:33 pm 
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Yeah I know it. I am all over the grid here. Panic'd, depressed, manic, scared, angry, sad, discouraged, I am just trying to get off of this shit and get back to normal and I am deathly afraid of w/d after the last few times c/t. I know I went about using the subs the wrong way. An I figured what happened to me after I read a bunch last night. I did indeed throw myself into a precipitated withdrawal. However since I only took a small amount (1.5 mg) I was not that hard to swallow 35mg of percs to set me right. But I'm telling you I liked the way I felt after the percs settled me down. And if this us what subs can do then I hope some day to try again if I have to and donut rightJ because I did feel different. Better. But for now I am afraid of what happened to me so I am going to try ONE LAST TIME to taper my way down off of oc, then end it with te percs on my next refil. I am going to give
It everything I have. I am recruiting my wife to help me with the dishing out the pills to me but if this does not work then it's 100% subs for me I guess. I just hate this and wish so bad that it was over. Thanks formthenreplys band for the person who warned my about the precipitated w/d thank you. You made me spit out what would have been an even worse disaster.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:58 pm 
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I'm very glad you are OK now. I wish you the very best in your taper of the pain pills. Let us know how you're doing.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:50 am 
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The tapering plans rarely work too, but that's definitely a somewhat better approach.

Maybe look into the free year of suboxone from the Manufacturer? What do you have to lose at this point, right?

Good luck, and keep us in the loop if you feel up to it


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:41 pm 
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We've all been there, were there seem to be no other options and are best escape plan is not a great one. That being said, we all have to work with what we got. If I was in your situation I would take as little as possible, as long as possible. Junkie stated it and I'm sure we are all thinking it and it sounds like you know it yourself, probably not the best way to approach this. Make the best of what you have now and use the next couple of weeks to find a long term solution. You know as well as I do that a few weeks goes by fast when dealing with things like this. I do know of people that have started out on suboxone the same way (getting it without a doctor to supervise) and then found a long term source. Just please use the next few weeks to find a doc. Best of luck. Please keep us posted.

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