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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:21 pm 
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I recently went to my subox doc and found out that I was recorded on camera in the bathroom while giving a urine sample for drug test. There are no signs posted in the doctors office "video recording in process or smile your on camera" Can anyone tell me if this is LEGAL? I know that cameras are not allowed in dressing rooms at clothing stores, so how can this be legal for a doctor and her staff to watch you on video survailance (sp?) while you are in the restroom?

Thanks in advance

Downing


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:39 pm 
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I don't know if it's legal or not...but it surely is freaking creepy.

Did you sign something when you started treatment that gives them permission to do that?

I wish I had better advice for you. I've never heard of this before. Maybe you could contact some state agency and ask if it's legal?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:06 pm 
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Yea, that makes me wonder if there was something in the 'fine print' of whatever (if) you signed a bunch of papers when you
started going.

Thats really the only way I think it WOULD be legal. But, you never know. I'd definitely look into it.
You would think that they'd be smart enough not to want to get suid (sp?) so they'd probably be pretty careful.

who knows though.

this would DEFINITELY creep me out!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:27 am 
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I would bet my bottom dollar that it was noted in the paper work you signed. But was prolly in the tiny tiny print nobody reads, I mean I can't tell you how many things people sign every day without reading. I myself have done it numerous times. But ever since I almost got kicked out of one of my pain Drs programs because of a crazy drug counselor I dropped after I told her she knows nothing about pain management treatment. So now I read everything like a hawk. But you should have copies of every thing so reread all your paper work.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:57 am 
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Thanks for the responses! I can tell you when I was confronted with the evidence of being recorded I was in complete shock and was very embarrassed. I did sign paper work and I did read it, the doc recently moved to a very fancy, new office. I signed paperwork at the old office (2 1/2 years ago) but it basically said, if i come up dirty 3x's i'm out of the program, i promise to provide clean urine, i will be tested for illegal drugs and the bup to make sure i'm not selling it, which is just crazy (who would go to a dr every mos just to sell their pills?)


What I have left out of this story is I was caught falsifying the drug test, I smoke pot, well i did. I haven't since and now i go to see the doc every week for at least a mos to get a weeks worth of pills at a time. I understand what I did was wrong but I think paying my rx's co pay of $10 for no matter how many pills is just ridiculous. I pay $10 a week now compared to $10 a mos. I understand her punishment of me coming to see her every week.

I'm not condoning any of my behavior and I'm certainly not going to take this any further because I did do the wrong thing and was caught and I don't want to look for a new Dr. She considered kicking me off the program and when I asked if there was any other options, she gave me the choice of coming in every week. I'm assuming she knows what she did is wrong (with the camera's) because now a nurse (female) accompanies guys and girls into the bathroom to watch them provide their specimen.

I'd love to hear from Dr. J on this topic.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:29 pm 
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I know many people that have gone to sub dr's and sold their pills.. maybee not all of the pills but one girl I know ( family member) would take less then the dr thought she was taking and sell the rest for 15.00 EACH to make back some of the money she laid out to pay the dr and pharmacy. What would happen is she would run out the last few days before her dr appt and she would call me BEGGING for me to sell her some of mine to get thru those days. I never would do that but it does happen all the time


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:03 am 
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I'm no lawyer, but I'd bet that what they are doing is illegal. I got curious to confirm that so I did a cursory Google search and this is what I came up with.

Quote:
Video

Most video recordings are legal with or without consent. There are very few laws which prohibit video recording of any kind, but there are laws in some areas dealing with areas of expected privacy.

Generally, it is perfectly legal to videotape or photograph any person and anything while on public property, except:

You cannot take pictures of areas that are usually considered private such as bedrooms, bathrooms, changing rooms, locker rooms, hotel rooms and so on
Certain public places have banned the use of cameras such as mass transit systems, courthouses, capital buildings, secured government buildings, jails or prisons unless you obtain written permission
You cannot film or photograph if it interferes with police, fire, medical or emergency operations

There are also restrictions on videotaping and photographing on private property:

If the private property is open to the public, such as retail stores, private stadiums or tourist areas, filming may be allowed unless there are signs posted that expressly forbid videotaping or photography
If the private property belongs to someone other than a commercial business, you had better get the property owner's permission

Source: http://www.palmvid.com/content/support/ ... rding.html

Source: http://www.newmediarights.org/page/fiel ... ings#Video

Source: http://communications-media.lawyers.com ... nsent.html

See also Cameras in the Court: A State by State Guide athttp://www.rtdna.org/pages/media_item ... uide55.php


Source: http://www.uvu.edu/wrs/trainingmaterials/recording.html

It came from Utah Valley University, but as you can see, the last link above is a state-by-state guide, so that might be more specific for you.

Anyway, note that it does say that videotaping isn't allowed in accepted "private" locations including bathrooms and changing rooms, etc. So although i can't quote a law, it's clear to me that this is NOT allowed. I could probably do more research to find the specific code/law, but I don't have the time right now.

It sounds like your doc knows what they were doing was wrong, since they stopped doing it. And now a woman is observing both men and women? I guess they don't have any male staff.

Anyhoo, I hope this helps. Good luck and I hope you can go back to monthly appointments soon.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:03 am 
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These cameras are called CCTV and starting October 1st, 2013 it is a law in the state I live in that they use those or they would have to go in there with you and observe every time you pee. I would rather have the camera do it because I can not pee near anyone and it takes me forever. lol

My suboxone clinic said they don't record. She told me that they use these cameras and the image is instantally erased and it doesn't save them or record them. They are just watching. I think it is weird that they watch both guys and girls though.

I have a paper from my doctor about them. I will type you what the paper says:


Drug Analysis Specimen Collection:

State Regulations requires that all urine drug screens be observed: In accordance with HB 2665, '41.2.d.3. "When using urine as a screening mechanism, all patient drug testing shall be observed to minimize the chance of adulterating or substituting another individual's urine."


Closed-circuit television(CCTV) is the use of video cameras to transmit a signal to a specific place, on a limited set of monitors. It differs from broadcast television in that the signal is not openly transmitted, though it may employ point to point (2P2), point to multipoint, or mesh wireless links(our treatment center will only utilize point to point). This means that the video feed is NOT RECORDED. This new process is really less intrusive with medical staff observing the screens than direct one on one observation. However, it is important to note that drug screens may also be directly observed by a staff member in the restroom at the staff's discretion.

Signage will be posted on the UA collection restroom providing notification that CCTV is in use.



That might help you understand it more because I thought it was really weird when they done it, but the image disappears and I am not too worried about it. I would rather have them do this than watch me piss.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Thanks for the info. Pretty standard and becoming more so. Over ten years ago I was a patient in a methadone clinic setting that utilized CCTV rather than nurse or tech 'escorts.' I've seen a lot in a lot of settings professionally since.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:34 pm 
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I'm with you rach, no way can I pee if someone is watching. On my last surgery they had to observe me pee, not because of anything illegal, just because in case I fell. After a 3+ hour surgery you HAVE to pee. Funny, not a drop until she went behind the door. Shy bladder syndrome.

So I too would prefer the CCTV. Might even give them a little entertainment too just for fun. :twisted: (use your imagination)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:38 pm 
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I go to a methadone clinic and they have cameras in the washrooms, they also told me about them when I started treatment and it was in the treatment agreement that every patient signs.

Since the collection has to be observed, I am actually thankful they have the cameras as opposed to someone standing there in the room with me, since I wouldn't even be able to pee with someone standing there watching me. The pressure from knowing I have to pee or I can't see the doc is already bad enough, I don't need someone standing there in the room with me, someone who is probably pissed off cause I'm already taking too long. =P

If you ask your doctor they should explain how it works, i.e. if the camera actually records footage or not and if it does, where the footage is stored and for how long, who has access to it, etc.

Also, I did want to mention that there are definitely people in Suboxone treatment just to get pills so they can sell them. Diversion is an issue with buprenorphine as with any opioid.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Ugh.. I used to have a tech or nurse come into the bathroom with me at the clinic. The good ol' days. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Oh I've had lots of techs and/or nurses come into the bathroom to watch me pee; after I switched from a stereotypical 1990's methadone clinic to a new 'really nice' corporate clinic that had just opened in my area I first encountered CCTV. I prefer the cameras, let me tell you.

And, yeah, everything about their use should be spelled out and available to you if you ask for it.

Also in agreement regarding buprenorphine diversion; it exists. Some people have 'full time jobs' that entail going to many different Dr's in many different places to obtain many different pills to divert to the black market.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:34 am 
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You could always mess with the camera. Hold up a piece of paper, that says, Yes I AM PISSING!! It might not be hilariously funny, but whoever watches it afterwards might get a giggle. I don't think that I would enjoy being watched on a camera while I pee because I have to sit kind of awkward when I go because the cups that my office use are triangle shaped and the lids are attached. I have tried to pop those lids off, there is no way to do it. I am glad that they are changing over to the round cups though, those are easier for me to hit. I know someone would get a kick out of watching me squat over a cup, piss all over my hand and try to drip it in the cup while I almost tip over trying to sit the cup down in the floor infront of me. LOL, however I would much rather go with the camera than a person. My old office, there was this old bulldog nurse that would come out and call your name and give you the cup and the usual message. Don't flush or wash your hands until you give me this back. The first time that you go in, they go in the bathroom with you and watch you piss. They know you are going to be dirty but they still go with you. I told them it is extremely hard for me to urinate with someone watching, I will let you strip me down and search me but please don't let her come in the bathroom with me. They finally agreed, I wasn't trying to hide anything but it is virtually impossible for me to piss with someone watching. I finally got my husband to start coming into the bathroom while I piss so I don't get a shy bladder anymore. I still do at times, but it is not as bad as it used to be. I also make sure that I drink enough Mt Dew to sink a ship before I go into the office. My new office, they are all laid back but people are noticing this and they are starting to deal out in the parking lot. My husband caught two in the parking lot dealing the other day that I was there for my appointment. Well I mean he didn't catch them, he overheard them talking on the phones.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Peeing in a cup does not have to be observed for simple screening. Only if there can be legal or chain of command type issues must it be observed. In my clinic it is screening, we check temp, creatinine, S.G. and for bupe metabolites as well as other drugs. I don't discharge based only on a UA, hence no observations. The nurses have a tough enough job with out playing pee cop too. If you can't be honest about a sample, we have much bigger issues regarding recovery greater than 'owwwh, I pulled a fast one on the doc.' It won't be long before other aberrant behaviors start cropping up. Or, perhaps I am naïve and you can find my picture next to gullible in the dictionary. PAX
P.S. THC in your sample would have gotten you the same deal here. Weekly for a while, biweekly, a couple of months clean then back to monthly. If you read some of the older threads, plenty of people have been summarily discharged for a dirty UA.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:16 am 
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Just noticed this old thread. I have to think that a camera would be a violation of privacy, unless explicitly described in the signed intake paperwork.

When I did my board monitoring, I had to be witnessed-- 'skin to cup'-- twice per week for several years. The lab only allowed men to witness men and women to witness women, and since there were few male techs at most labs, I had to wait for an hour many times for someone to come in from home to observe me. But all of that was for enforcement of a board order to maintain my license. Cameras observing voluntary treatment patients? I'd contact the state medical board and ask to speak with the board attorney. Maybe anonymously!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Oy vey, that is just... creepy... I guess I'm just lucky. I my doc every other month and I might get handed a cup every 2-3x I'm there. In effect I get screened every 4-6 months. And it's just handing me a cup and pop it in the window when I'm done. No observation, nothing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:10 am 
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downing2b wrote:
Thanks for the responses! I can tell you when I was confronted with the evidence of being recorded I was in complete shock and was very embarrassed. I did sign paper work and I did read it, the doc recently moved to a very fancy, new office. I signed paperwork at the old office (2 1/2 years ago) but it basically said, if i come up dirty 3x's i'm out of the program, i promise to provide clean urine, i will be tested for illegal drugs and the bup to make sure i'm not selling it, which is just crazy (who would go to a dr every mos just to sell their pills?)


What I have left out of this story is I was caught falsifying the drug test, I smoke pot, well i did. I haven't since and now i go to see the doc every week for at least a mos to get a weeks worth of pills at a time. I understand what I did was wrong but I think paying my rx's co pay of $10 for no matter how many pills is just ridiculous. I pay $10 a week now compared to $10 a mos. I understand her punishment of me coming to see her every week.

I'm not condoning any of my behavior and I'm certainly not going to take this any further because I did do the wrong thing and was caught and I don't want to look for a new Dr. She considered kicking me off the program and when I asked if there was any other options, she gave me the choice of coming in every week. I'm assuming she knows what she did is wrong (with the camera's) because now a nurse (female) accompanies guys and girls into the bathroom to watch them provide their specimen.

I'd love to hear from Dr. J on this topic.

Thanks!

You're complaining about paying 10 dollars a week! I have to pay over 300 dollars a month to get my script, so I'd be grateful to be in your shoes.


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