It is currently Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:34 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: My Brother has PAWS
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:54 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2745
Location: Southwest
I wasn't sure this was a subject to discuss here or not but here goes.

My brother started Oxy's and other strong pain killers about ten years ago due to first breaking his hip on a fall off of a ladder. His doctor used Sub for a short time to get him off that and he had such a terrible time with withdrawals that he ended up going back on the oxycodone saying his pain was too bad. Every time he started to heal he got injured again. Now that he's clean he realized he might have hurt himself on purpose to stay on the meds.

Anyway, last year he got pulled over and arrested for DUI. He failed the street sobriety test and admitted to taking his pain medication. You all know the story, lost his license to drive and his attorney told him to get into a recovery rehab facility to show the judge he is improving himself.

This recovery place uses Suboxone to wean patients off of opiates. Four days of diminishing Sub made his w/d a lot less in the beginning. After that it's meetings, meetings, meetings. He was there for 30 days and has a 2 year commitment to them to stay clean and sober or they'll inform the court. That means no alcohol, (he only drank 1 or 2 glasses of wine at night) and no other mind altering drugs, including Ambien or Lunesta. They say those two are like benzos and are forbidden.

He has been miserable now for seven months. We have talked a lot since this happened as he knows I'm on Sub. I kept telling him that sleep should come after a few weeks or months. Wrong! The PAWS set in about a two months into it and he has been mentally miserable for all seven months. The meetings seem to help somewhat because it gives him some place to go to keep his mind off of opiates. The main problem has been the sleep issue. Even now at 7 months he is only getting at the most, 5 hours of sleep and that only happens if he works out to exhaustion. Talk about being worn down mentally to the point of breaking. I just can't believe they won't let him take an Ambien or Lunesta to sleep. And he would go on to Suboxone if he could but the rehab place would of course say no. It just pisses me off so bad to see him suffer so badly. This is my big brother and the oldest of my siblings. He has always been the strong one in the family. He has broken down to tears so many times since this happened that it breaks my heart to see him suffering like this. Actually it makes me mad as hell knowing how this so called recovery place has messed him up. He is one who needs to be on Suboxone like me.

Here is the point of this thread. He has suffered so much more than what I've seen here with those who stop Suboxone. I just wanted to let you all know that I don't believe it when people say that Sub is harder to get off of than regular opiates. At least not in his case. He is a lot like me when it comes to the way opiates affect our bodies and minds. I just don't see myself ever getting off of Sub unless I am forced to like my brother was off of oxycodone. Same difference to me.

So be grateful that you are on a medication you can taper from w/o terrible side effects. I just wanted you all to know that the grass isn't greener on the other side of addiction.

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:45 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:59 pm
Posts: 1033
Hi Rule,
I'm sorry your brother has gone through all of this. Ten years is a long time and it's certainly going to take him more than a few months to get back to normal. Before I relapsed I had been off Sub for 6 months. I had come to accept the fact that I would only ever get 6 hours of sleep a night. That was my new normal. When on Sub I can sleep 12 hours if I don't have to wake up for work or school. It's frightening that I actually sleep DOUBLE on Subs. I'm really really surprised your brothers doctors dont let him take something completely non-abusable like Trazodone or Flexeril. Also, melatonin might help. But the fact is, 6-7 hours a night might be the best he can hope for. Also, how old is he? As we age we require less sleep. One last thing, do you think depression is an issue? You said he is miserable. I know it must be hard suddenly being clean and having to face all of these issues. But if he is clinically depressed an antidepressant might help both is mood and his ability to sleep.
I truly wish the best for his continuing recovery.
Lilly


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:59 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
Hey Rule,

I'm so sorry your brother is suffering so badly. Opiate wd can be an almost inhumane process....to the person going through it and the ones who love them.

I was right at the one year mark before my sleep returned to 7 - 8 hours a night. Interestingly enough, we had just returned from a vacation on the Gulf. Somehow, going on vacation "triggered" something in me to sleep better. Prior to the vacation, I was getting maybe 6 hours of sleep. Honestly, it's like the vacation shifted my attitude about a lot of things.

Has your brother tried Unisom, the one with Doxylamine Succinate in it? I've used this med on and off for a while. Apparently, it has the same sedative effect as benzo's, but without the benzo's!

Lilly mentioned melatonin, I tried it, it knocked the snot outta me, but also left me pretty groggy in the morning.

Lilly brings up another good point (dang she's smart!!) about an AD. I had to use Wellbutrin to cycle outta my crappy feelings. I just couldn't quite do it on my own. Several short term uses of Wellbutrin helped push me out of it.

I hope things improve soon for your brother.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:49 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:03 am
Posts: 233
Romeo makes a great point. Unisom has been amazing for me as well. I was suggested by an older lady at my work to try it. She told me it works better for her than Lunesta.

Well I've got Lunesta, and it quite literally sucks. It doesn't feel like a benzo. It makes your mouth taste like crap for the entire day, and your burps are actually just quite atrocious.

Oh and it didn't help me sleep for shit.

So a few days later I was prescribed Clonidine ( If your brother doesn't have this yet, take him to the doctor and demand it ). I also added Unisom into the mix.

Sleep. Glorious Sleep. No exercise needed sleep. Maybe a Hot shower to stop any RLS, but actual great sleep.

I can see how this process would make anyone clinically depressed. It really does suck. I can't imagine 7 months of it. Yippie.

Best of luck to your Brother Rule62. You were the first person to welcome me to the forums, and I appreciated it very much during my 4th day of horribleness.

-WTBF


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Lots of suggestions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:54 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2745
Location: Southwest
Thanks everyone for your input. I will write all those sleep medications down and talk to him about it next time we chat. He does take Trazodone but it doesn't do much good. Never helped me either. Isn't Unisom an OTC med? If so, then it would contain the same ingredient as Benadryl, right? Melatonin is another one that does not work well either. All good suggestions though and a lot of them have worked for others here.

Here is a little more history. He is 62 years old and has been a roofing contractor most of his life. We used to roof together in the '70's in Oregon until he opened his own business. Being a roofer does a job on the body so his pain is not just from the recent injuries. Same with me being a mail carrier all those years.

He is in no position to insist on any drug from his Dr. right now. He is on probation and getting a UA every few weeks. All he can do is what the rehab place tells him to do. And yes, they did tell him it can a year, maybe even two, for his body and mind to find its way back to normal functioning. What I meant by him being miserable still is that his world still looks gray because of not having any opiates in his system. Like me, he has been on something for over ten years so it will take time. And no, no real depression from what I can tell. He has always been a positive person and we've never seen him depressed, so rule that one out for now.

My post was not really asking for help for him. It was just making a statement that full agonists also do the same thing to a person who stops taking them after a long time of usage. It seems we always hear people say that they regret going onto Sub because the w/d's are worse than what they were using. Really? Not in this case it isn't. After seeing what he is going through, I am grateful to have found Suboxone for my addiction. And I bet my PAWS won't be as bad as his was. Same with the insomnia. The RLS only lasted a month or so, I forget.

That's it. Thanks again for all your good suggestions. Him and I will talk about it soon.

Rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:08 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1454
Hey Rule,

You can't really comment on how your suboxone PAWS will be if you haven't gone through it, you know? I think it's pointless to compare one detox to another but let me tell you, bupe wds are no joke. Luckily you are ok with being on them for life and may never have to deal with withdrawals or PAWS but regardless, there is no point in guessing at what they'll be like if you have yet to go through it.

"What I meant by him being miserable still is that his world still looks gray because of not having any opiates in his system." Plus the lack of sleep sounds a lot like depression. You don't have to be a negative person to be depressed. Depression manifests itself in many, many ways.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Depression
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:40 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2745
Location: Southwest
Thanks TinyD, I will ask him about the possibility of having depression and maybe suggest he talk to his doctor about it.

And of course you're right about the PAWS comment. I won't know until that day comes. Right now I say that I'll be on Sub for life, but that isn't what I was saying a year and a half ago. It seems like since I got sick I don't want to go through any more discomfort anytime soon. Hopefully that will all change and maybe next year I'll be of sound mind and body to start my taper again.

I have so much respect for those who have stopped all Suboxone and other opiates completely. It shows great determination and love of self to succeed at living a clean life. My hat is off to you all.

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:57 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 833
i'm wounder'g why his doc is not looking in to this about his depression. it sounds like depression a lot more than any thing el's. i think he needs to believe that a good working anti-depr- can help a lot. just my opin.

_________________
Humor is one of the best qualities in life of intelligents breeze1.wmv utube untitled 26 (2) utube just me and my music


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:25 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2745
Location: Southwest
After keeping my mouth shut about Suboxone, what does his pain doctor do? Yep, put him on 2 mg's of Subutex. I guess a Dr. can prescribe it for pain. It that ever becomes a problem then he can go the Butrans Patch route instead.

So now of course he is sleeping okay and the world looks a lot better.

All that suffering he went through and now to be on Buprenorphine cracks me up. At least now he won't be abusing any pain meds or alcohol. (I hope)

rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group