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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Just registered for this forum because need some help and support.

I had years sober, relapsed for a few weeks in the summer on up to about 30mg of Vicodin/day from a prescription for legit pain, but I started abusing it. At that point I got on a very low dose of Suboxone (was on this in the past and it worked great). I only had 8mg strips so I would just rip a piece (I should have cut them to make them exact I know) and was taking about 1/2mg - 1mg/day, about.

Decided to come off about two weeks ago on a whim, stupid decision honestly. I didn't taper down (and I realize that some people think I shouldn't have to "taper" off that low of a dose but my body is very sensitive to all medications/drugs and tends to become dependent very easily). Stayed 100% abstinent for about ten days and then did the unthinkable and went out and bought oxycodone off the street. I hadn't done anything like this in so long, longer than you could even imagine. So here's what I've taken: 30mg of oxycodone (K9) on Wednesday and Thursday, 30mg of oxycodone (15mg pills have a V on them) on Friday (yesterday), and then 22.5mg of oxycodone at 9am this morning, 7.5mg at about 1pm, and 22.5 mg at about 8pm (minutes ago). Its all gone now, and I already made the decision when I bought the oxys yesterday that I was putting myself back onto the Suboxone tomorrow (Sunday). I can't do this....too expensive, and I can't go through this again. My original drug of choice was heroin and I am 100% sure that I will be using heroin again if I don't go back on the Subs.

I really need some advise. I know that these oxys must be instant release/whatever because after a few hours I'm getting sick off of them. (This isn't like the Oxycontin of my day, this is just crazy how short of a time they last.)

How long do I need to wait before I take the Suboxone? I only plan on taking like 1/2mg - 1mg, like I was before. I know I won't need a lot because I've never been on a high maintenance dose. And when I was on 1/2mg - 1mg/day, I didn't want to get high at all. I just don't want to be in precipitated withdrawals. Not even sure if that's a risk considering I've only been taking the oxy for four days anyway.

Please, please, please, advise/support appreciated. I haven't told anyone really what's going on....few know I ever had that slip in the summer and no one knows that I took the oxy. I told two people that I'm going back on the Suboxone because of my intense cravings but nothing more than that.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:56 pm 
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I can't really help u advice wise....i am new to this forum as well. but I can offer support. I had an oxy habit as well and I hope to never go back. I am trying to come off subs as well due to insurance reasons and am very scared that the cravings will come back. I read these posts every day and can find answers in the educated ppl here and others who have been through it first hand.

If you are relapsing I do thing sub therapy is the way to go for sure. I have read to wait 24 hrs after an oxy dose to start, but that is only from what I gather on here. Good luck and I hope the beat for u.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:07 pm 
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it is recommended that you wait 24 hours before dosing, but everyone is different...i for one have never had a problem inducting to suboxone 12 hours after last use...and honestly if you only plan on using 1 mg, then i'm fairly sure that precipitated withdrawl would be a slim chance if you waited at least 12 hours...you said you feel withdrawl quite soon after taking these roxi's(from what you described, you are correct - these are instant release oxycodones) so i would imagine by the time you woke up tomorrow you will be withdrawling pretty bad...if thats the case you can go ahead and take the suboxone


if i can ask...why is it that you only want to stay at a 1mg dose? considering this last relapse, would you consider increasing, even to 4 mg? 4 mg would probably keep you more stable without cravings, but its your choice of course. i hope everything works out..and you are doing the right thing...relapse is a very real and scary risk...let this be a reminder how tough this demonic disease is...but you did a good job of keeping it to a mimimm and correcting the issue before it went further. God bless you

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:27 pm 
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Jwhite0009 wrote:
I can't really help u advice wise....i am new to this forum as well. but I can offer support. I had an oxy habit as well and I hope to never go back. I am trying to come off subs as well due to insurance reasons and am very scared that the cravings will come back. I read these posts every day and can find answers in the educated ppl here and others who have been through it first hand.

If you are relapsing I do thing sub therapy is the way to go for sure. I have read to wait 24 hrs after an oxy dose to start, but that is only from what I gather on here. Good luck and I hope the beat for u.


Thank you for the response. My advice to YOU would be to fight like hell to stay on the Suboxone if you aren't confident in your ability right now to come off. I really wasn't ready, it was a bad time in my life to do it (a lot of changes and pressures) and I made the wrong decision. I just hope my resolve tomorrow is strong to follow my plan.

I'll send a prayer your way, friend.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:36 pm 
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He-Reigns wrote:
it is recommended that you wait 24 hours before dosing, but everyone is different...i for one have never had a problem inducting to suboxone 12 hours after last use...and honestly if you only plan on using 1 mg, then i'm fairly sure that precipitated withdrawl would be a slim chance if you waited at least 12 hours...you said you feel withdrawl quite soon after taking these roxi's(from what you described, you are correct - these are instant release oxycodones) so i would imagine by the time you woke up tomorrow you will be withdrawling pretty bad...if thats the case you can go ahead and take the suboxone


if i can ask...why is it that you only want to stay at a 1mg dose? considering this last relapse, would you consider increasing, even to 4 mg? 4 mg would probably keep you more stable without cravings, but its your choice of course. i hope everything works out..and you are doing the right thing...relapse is a very real and scary risk...let this be a reminder how tough this demonic disease is...but you did a good job of keeping it to a mimimm and correcting the issue before it went further. God bless you


Thank you so much for your response....this makes me feel so much better. I was thinking the same thing, that a miniscule amount wouldn't be very likely to precipitate withdrawal....I've even read on other (non-recovery-related) forums that some people consistently take such a low dose of Suboxone along with their short-acting opioid regularly, as an enhancement (which made me feel better to believe that it wouldn't precipitate withdrawal).

I have a really low tolerance for long-acting opioids like Suboxone and methadone (been on both) and historically I've only needed a tiny amount to be stabilized, physically and psychologically. In fact, the highest Suboxone dose I was ever on was 2mg, and I felt no cravings at all. I have no actual objection to taking more, but I literally don't think my body will tolerate it. Anymore than 2mg of Suboxone actually would get me "high" in the past, if that gives you a picture of how sensitive I am to it.

Other factor is that I haven't been to my Sub doctor in two months. I have one 8mg strip and an appointment this coming week. I'm not going to tell him about the relapse. I know that he'll make me jump thru a bunch of hoops, and in the end, this was a four day slip. If I can't seem to manage it on my own, then maybe I'll change my mind and tell him. Though, honestly, he's a lousy doctor. He constantly pressures me to decrease off of them, and I tend not to argue with him because he doesn't charge as much as most other doctors for the visit. However, after this experience, and seeing that I'm obviously not ready to be off the Sub, I am going into the appointment and clearly stating to him that I tried to decrease myself off, had awful, terrifying cravings, and that this obviously isn't my time to come off.

Just the fact that he constantly pressures me to come off shows his lack of true understanding of the nature of opioid dependence.

I know that as long as I get on the Suboxone and stay on it, I'll stay clean. I just have to fight the temptation to cheat here or there. Waking up the beast in my brain back in the summer really did throw my recovery into a tail spin (and, again, I had a LOT of clean time) and its almost shocking how difficult its been to recover from this.

At any rate, thank you so much for the feedback, and for listening to me vent. I need to get this stuff out.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:42 pm 
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Thanks u this again. My husband wants to pay full price to keep me where we are at. But I just feel guilty about the financial strain even though it's less than when I was using. But this is your thread. Please keep up updated. From the other response it looks like you are good to start the suboxone. And I do agree. 4mg would be a good starting dose to help with cravings.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:29 am 
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Jwhite0009 wrote:
Thanks u this again. My husband wants to pay full price to keep me where we are at. But I just feel guilty about the financial strain even though it's less than when I was using. But this is your thread. Please keep up updated. From the other response it looks like you are good to start the suboxone. And I do agree. 4mg would be a good starting dose to help with cravings.


Think about the financial/emotional/mental strain of coming off maintenance before you're ready. And I'm honestly not just saying that because of where I'm at, but more based on the totality of my experience in the recovery community, seeing people who aren't ready, or don't want to, come off of their maintenance program due to WHATEVER reason - hating their methadone clinic rules, a doctor pushing them off Subs, family pressure..... My opinion, its always best for the person in recovery to make choices based on their confidence level and internal desire. Then again, I'm also a person who wholeheartedly believes in long-term/indefinite maintenance for those who desire it. It sounds like your husband is very supportive of you in your recovery process, and that is awesome. Some people aren't that lucky.

I'm going to try the 1/2mg - 1mg, but I have zero issue with going higher to whatever dose will stop my cravings. I just know from past experience that it doesn't take much for me (I'm lucky). Then again, this is another day, a different ball game, so who knows what will happen?

And don't worry about this being "my thread". My recovery has always been enhanced my helping others, and it always helped me get another day clean, in the past. My hope is that I will get myself back on track after this slip and be able to be an asset to others on this forum.

Thanks again for the response.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:51 am 
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'This Again' I feel like your really serious about recovery and it's cool to see. I Truly have faith in you and believe your on your way to a new life. It takes a strong mind to overcome addiction

PTSD is something I'm familiar with btw. Waking up everyday to the same, reoccurring, debilitating images completely throws me into a panic and I understand my addiction stems from it. I'm no mental health professional, but it sounds like this might be your deep seeded problem. But I could be wrong. Just me two cents. GL

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Last edited by h0pe on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:07 pm 
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Hope you are feeling ok today. I am curious to know because I am going to drop to 2mg. And you are right about me needing to stay on them if I don't feel ready. I honestly dont know because I haven't got there yet. I do know what I can handle and what I can't. I can't handle using illegal drugs and living the life of an addict. So I am going to try the taper. If I can't mentally handle it, them i may have to stay at a low dose for a while. I'm in the same boat as u. I don't want to rely on a drug long term....but if that's what it takes for my recovery then it may be something to consider.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:12 pm 
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Hey, thanks for the concern, much appreciated.

I took literally a sliver, I'd estimate 1/4mg, of the Suboxone like a half hour ago. I'd been yawning, eyes tearing, stomach cramps, chills, etc. About ten minutes ago, I started feeling weird, like bugged out, I can't describe it. I still have a bad feeling in my stomach and am having chills.

I don't know whether to take more or not. I still don't feel right, but I am terrified of precipitated withdrawal. I took the last 22.5mg of oxycodone last night around 8pm, so I waited like ~18 hours.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:18 pm 
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It's so hard to tell because people are so individual. When I was inducted my doctor gave me comfort meds and had me do 48 of withdrawal. Of course it was difficult to get through, but the payoff was no PWs and I went from feeling crappy before induction and left feeling fantastic.

Do you have access to the COWS scale? Here's a link just in case: http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_ind ... _sheet.pdf

Even though oxycodone is short-acting, definitely err on the side of caution. I honestly can't tell if you're feeling crappy after the 1/4 of a strip because it was too soon, or if it's because you need more sub. I'm sorry. I know that's not much help. I wish you the best!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:34 pm 
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more than likely you are just going further into withdrawl from the oxy, .25 mg of sub would very rarely give you p/w and i do believe that the p/w would be more intense than you described...just my 2 cents here...i think you have to take more suboxone to stabilize, since you are coming from using a full agonist....if you had just quit taking the sub and didnt do anything for 2 weeks then you could probably resume on the super low dose...but since you used oxy for a couple days in a row you might need to take...maybe 2 mg to stabilize and then once you're feeling better, taper down to the low dose that you're pursuing

God bless

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Thanks for the replies. I definitely know that I'm not in precipitated withdrawal (this being hours and hours later). I've now taken a TOTAL of a 1/2mg (in two 1/4mg pieces), and just now took another 1/4mg (for a total of roughly 3/4mg).

In the past, I would have literally "felt" a dose this small, but I suspect that he-reigns is correct and that I might need a slightly higher dose to stabilize. I screwed up my receptors so I'm not longer working with what was going on up there before.

And yes, Amy, I do have the COWS, thank you for linking it though.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:58 pm 
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Just wanted to come back one final time today and check in....all in all, I think I took between 1.5 - 2mg, in four separate doses. I am finally starting to feel somewhat normal. Just a little achy and fatigued. I'm thinking sleepytime tea to help me get tired to go to sleep, but as a back-up I'll probably take a .5mg Klonopin. I need good sleep tonight.

So I guess some of the feedback I got was correct. I've jacked up my receptors by taking full agonists and now my tolerance to Suboxone has increased....three weeks ago, if I had taken 2mg, I would have been nauseous and exhausted.

I don't know how long I'll stay on....my pride is wounded that I've fallen back, but that is to worry about on another day.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:26 pm 
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glad to hear you are feeling better...i think if you stay at 2 mg for another day or 2 and then taper, you should be fine to work your way lower if that is truly what you want to do..you'll have our support!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:59 am 
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Try not to worry about your pride. That's what got so many of us here. You seem to have your stuff together and have a plan to move forward. We are all rooting for you and will keep checking in. Hope you get some rest tonight.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:44 pm 
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Thank you all SO much for your support. Its day two for me, and I feel pretty good. I kinda feel like I got beat up, I'm kinda achy.....but nothing to write home about. I took about .5mg this morning, just put another .5mg under my tongue now.

I had a stressful day at work today and it did make me think about getting high, but I'm glad that I told my boyfriend what was going on because I'm accountable to him now, like, he's expecting me certain places, and so on.

And yes, my pride could get in the way of me staying on maintenance (what I NEED to do), but I'm taking it one day at a time right now.

Thanks again, all. I feel SO much better than I did. :)


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