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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:36 pm 
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I had my first child this past June, he is two and a half months old. My doctor kept me on Subutex (my dose is 12 mg/day) for about a month and a half but than switched me to suboxone at my last visit. I have had as much of a natural approach to my pregnancy/labor as possible while being on such a medication. I decided not to have an epidural and went into labor with the plan of having as natural as possible. I was more comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding with the subutex as opposed to the suboxone because I would like to pass as little as possible to my child, and we all know that subocone has the extra added naloxone, and it also has afew other inactive ingredients that the subutex does not have.
my doctor had just tried saying he is not allowed to prescribe the subutex for longer than one month post-birth but I know for a fact of at least one patient (a breastfeeding mom) to whom he prescribes the suburex... He also later in the visit threw out that my insurance wouldn't cover it anyways, that it will only cover while I am pregnant and not breastfeeding. (I am covered my Vermont Medicaid)

so I suppose I am not sure what I am looking for exactly, but any input would help. Your experience, your thoughts, ways to convince him to switch,etc.
one more thing to add is that I have always been able to tell the difference and feel ill effects from the naloxone or another ingredient in the suboxone taht I do not get while on the subutex (as I have been on both, subutex four separate times and suboxone as well) and I notice while on suboxone I experience migraines,sleep disturbance, a more agitated mood and up and down moods, anxiety,and other unfavorable effects...
okay I shall cease this rambling, please excuse this... Lol and thanks in advance for any help or support!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Anybody with any thoughts or experience? I just joined the other day and haven't had time to write my introduction.... So I hope that I have done all this the right way and people are seeing this. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:12 pm 
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I think you have to prove that you have an allergy to the naloxone for the doctor to prescribe it to you after pregnancy. Id tell him you think you are and all of the adverse effects you have that you dont have with the subutex.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Do you know when this changed? Because like I said, I know of a woman who continued to take it while breastfeeding?
I do fear that because I do not have an allergic reaction such as hives... just my observation that evrytime I am placed back on suboxone is when I really notice how much worse I feel and the migraines and such return. My anxiety has also gone through the roof :(


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:34 pm 
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Well this is discouraging... I joined this forum because after a long time of just lurking I decided that the majority of people here are kind and well meaning and helpful! So I signed up to reach out about my current issue in my recovery world right no,which may seen like a petty issue to some, or non-important (bad English haha) but I assure you this is a very big deal to me right now. I have a beautiful little 3 month old baby boy to care for and unfortunately ever since I have been taken off the subutex and out on the suboxone my health (mentally and physically) has plummeted to an uncomfortable low.
I am consistently suffering migraines, anxiety at an all time high, I constantly feel like I am in WD's (of course not to an extreme but almost like what PAWS felt like for a couple months for me the last time I got clean with no maintenance). I have always had gastrointestinal issues and they are getting worse and worse, and I am totally stressing out because none of this happened until I was switched. I am just wondering if anybody has experienced any of this, or has any advice at all. Even if nobody has any advice or answers can someone just let me know that they hear me??? I feel so alone!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:24 pm 
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KraziiK6214 wrote:
Even if nobody has any advice or answers can someone just let me know that they hear me??? I feel so alone!

Oh sweetheart, you are not alone and I hear you!! I just wish I had some advice is all....I did have a pregnancy some years ago where I detoxed off opiates, but I never breast fed while on suboxone. Hang in there...I'll bet someone will come along who has some advice for you. I'd just say keep talking to your dr. and if he/she isn't helping you, find another one! We are blessed to live in a free country afterall! :D And congrats on your precious baby!!
BF

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:39 pm 
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I'm so sorry that you're feeling so adobe and physically unwell right now. That's a truly awful state of mind and body to be in with a brand new babyto take care of, nonetheless! I don't know what the buprenorphine prescribing laws are in VT, as they vary from state to state and I'm in Virginia, but I'm neither pregnant nor nursing a baby, and am prescribed mono product buprenorphine by my doctor. If your doctor is telling you that it's not allowed by the DEA, he's not being honest with you. it's entirely at the doctors discretion as to what to prescribe. The DEA doesn't tell doctors which formulation or amount to prescribe. They basically make sure that the doctor's paperwork is in order and that they're not over the 100 patient cap,etc.

It is my understanding that it is safe to breastfeed your baby while taking suboxone, since so little of the naloxone is absorbed by the mucous membranes in the mouth, and the minute amount that is swallowed is destroyed by 1st pass metabolism at the liver, so if any amount is making it into baby's circulation, the amount is negligible at best. However, my concern is more so for your physical and metal well being at this point. Have you discussed how poorly you're feeling on the suboxone with your doctor? If so, I'd continue to mention it. There are several articles at: http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com addressing the difference between subutex and suboxone, or lack of difference. That website is also run by the founder of this site, Dr. Junig. According to him, the two medications are clinically identical in their actions, but some doctors believe that mono product buprenorphine is more likely to be abused intravenously due to lack of naloxone, and that suboxone can't be abused in this manner. This misconception is changing in some places. Perhaps you could print out some of those articles to show your own doctor to convince him? As far as the medicaid not covering the prescription, I've no idea if that's so, or if there are exceptions made for people with a provable sensitivity/allergy to naloxone?? If not, perhaps if your doctor does write you rx for plain bupe, could you possibly pay cash for it? I wish I had more answers for you. I hour someone with more knowledge or experience with this subject will come along with more information to help you. I did want to say as well, that you are not alone.

Lizzie

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:11 pm 
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Thank you both for your replies!

Yes, my initial concern was for my bay and was basically thinking one has more ingredients/chemicals and whatnot with the added naloxoneand artificial sweeteners and I was feeling like the least amount of extra crap the better. But, I am a little more at ease with that now due to some research I have done and a friend who breastfed while on suboxone as well.
All of that was my thought process initially and then things started going downhill for me :/ One thing I forgot to put out there was the cravings. I had next to no cravings while on subutex and since I have been switched have been having horrid cravings, which some of that could be mental because I am an addict and something has not gone my way (though I have good reason to want it to stay the same) and maybe some of that is adding stress and causing me to crave. I have tried spitting after my sub is done because I read somewhere that it can help, but I just haven't seen much of an improvement. I am having to ingest way too much Tylenol for my migraines and all over aches ad discomfort and it is not healthy.
I have discussed all of my symptoms with my doctor and I know he sees the difference. I went from being very happy with life and recovery, doing really well, no cravings,feeling good physically and emotionally, anxiety in check most days, no aide effects from the subutex and its basically the complete opposite now. The issue of people iv'ing is a real issue and I respect his concern for that but I cannot stress enough that I would NEVER IV my medication, either form, and I have known many people who have with subutex and suboxone alike.
I worry that the more I push the issue the more he is going to think that my intentions are not in the right place, but they are. I am worried for my recovery when my day to day life has gone so far down in quality:( I can get through this, even if he never listens. I don't want to have to find a new doctor, but maybe I should reach out and just see if there is anyone even available and taking patients. I like where I am at now and my doctor, but I have to do what is best for me and my family. And when I am craving and contemplating methadone maintenance than I am not where I want to be in life, and it is such an easy fix. Ahhh I'll stop blabbing now :) it feels good to vent, so thanks for listening ladies!

any advice is very welcome!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:44 am 
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Good morning Kraziiik! Blab away! IMO it is very very healthy to "get it out"!

You are absolutely right that you need to do what is best for you and your family. Now that might involve actually DOING something, and not just waiting for the problem to resolve itself or "go away" which we addicts tend to hope will happen if we avoid long enough, am I right? You are off to a great start by reaching out here.
Here is what I would do now if I were you; read up like Lizzie suggested, then go armed with knowledge to your dr. and be open and honest, but calm, rational and not overly emotional, about your situation.
Then if he or she still won't help you, find another dr. who will. I know it is a pain in the ass to switch dr.s, and change can be stressful even when it is change for the better, but it sounds like you are in a precarious position with the strong cravings and like you said, you and your family are top priority.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Now go cuddle that baby! :D
BF

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Last edited by ButterFLYING! on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:54 am 
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Good morning to you :)
that is good advice, and some of what I had been thinking about as well, as far as the gathering knowledge. I thought that was a good idea too, and have been reading up. It is hard to find definitve knowledge on this subject though, but I have found some studies and personal experiences that have referenced issues with naloxone and gastrointestinal issues, and I have IBS and there was a doctor at the ER that said I had something like gastrointesti-something lol. And I know in that area I've been more uncomfortable about a week after being switched.
I am also going to express to him that I am happy and willing to come in more often, do extra ua's or start doing pill counts. Even let him check my limbs for track marks if he'd like. I have been in this program for two years and have met all the requirements, never missed group (except for while in labor), have only had one positive ua in two years and I was honest about the slip upfront and sought help before it became more than a one time slip up. And never again since than, and that was in the first year of treatment, and unfortunately that is fairly common.

Little one has finally decided to fall back asleep, so I am going to join him while I still can :D Talk with you later and thanks for everything!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:31 am 
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I was on subutex throughout my pregnancy. My doctor kept me on it until I stopped breastfeeding. When I was switched to suboxone (sublingual strips) I experienced the same symptoms you've described. That was enough motivation for me to get off suboxone.
I wish you the best!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:54 pm 
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See I would be happy if he would at least leave me on it until I'm done breastfeeding because that would give me plenty of time to at least taper down very low so I can be off it and not ever have to take suboxone again. I cannot continue to live with the side effects that I am getting since switched, it makes my quality of life low and that in turn affects my baby and that's not okay with me :(


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