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 Post subject: blue (R.I.P)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:55 am 
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Hi everybody,
While going through my sons address book, I found info that he was a member of this forum last year. I thought I'd sign in to tell you that Kevin "blue" died earlier this year from an overdose of percocet/valium/vicodin. He was 38 yrs old. He was on Suboxone for 4-5 months last year. He quit the program because it became a "burden" and expensive. We later found out that Suboxone just wasn't killing the physical and emotional pain he was trying to escape from.
This is very personal to me, but maybe I can save someone's life on here by telling you this story. Don't give up, and don't leave the program early for losing faith. While Kevin was very open with not caring whether he lived or died, I bet he would change his mind if he knew how many wonderful more years he could've had, and how many friends and family he left behind that are heartbroken.
Good luck & God bless.
Katherine


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:46 am 
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Katherine -

I'm so, so sorry for your loss! I cannot imagine what you must be going through right now. Yet during this horrible time you decided to come here and share this sad news with the hopes that it would helps someone else.

I remember blue and am deeply saddened by this news. Like you, I hope this will help someone else.

I'm sorry I don't have more of the "right" words to offer. But please know you have my very deepest sympathies.

Please take care of yourself.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:18 am 
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Katherine,

I am so sorry for your loss. Even though you don't know me I empathize with what you are going through...and what your son went through. Thank you for having the courage to come to the forum and tell us. In your pain you are reaching out to help others...that's an amazing gift you have.

As a therapist and also on Sub I believe that we need more than just suboxone. Suboxone helps stop the cravings, helps our brains heal from the daily up and down of active using. Sub isn't perfect, but it is a tool. One tool out of many that we need I believe.

Except for pain patients, most of us used to stop feeling. Escape from uncomfortable emotions. Many of us have had childhood abuse and have not grown up with healthy ways to deal with life. So we need help. Good therapy with someone who understands addiction and Sub is vital for us I think. We can go to AA or NA, SMART recovery...those are free and I believe those things work, too. There is no ONE way to recover. We all decide individually what works for us. But it does call for action.

I believe Sub shouldn't be used alone. I believe we need more. You said your son was tormented by his emotions....I think most of us relate to that. I still suffer from thinking too much at times, or not having the behavior I am trying to change. I've felt like giving up at times. And if it wasn't for my recovery program, which happens to be AA, I wouldn't be willing to look at my behavior...I'd probably be an angry, tormented, unhappy individual.

Opiate addiction is deadly. It has a low recovery rate. We need to reach out and get all the help we can in order to get out from under this disease and to change how we cope. Our best thinking got us on Sub. so what makes us think that just being on Sub will make everything better? It doesn't. I think at the very least we need someone safe, and healthy that we talk to daily, get advice from, bounce our thinking off of....someone to give us reality checks...but I also believe that in order to change our behavior we need to change our behavior...and doing that means changing how we think. It's pretty hard to do that alone.

Thank you, again, for coming to the forum, Katherine.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:57 am 
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I remember blue, too. I just looked up his thread, and I wish I hadn't because it's heartbreaking to know that he died of a relapse. His induction was on 10-21-10. His last words on the thread were, "you have hearts of gold", meaning his supporters here on the forum. He sounded like a real, genuine person who was just trying to make good. I pray he is at peace now.

I just wrote a really negative post about how I want to get off Sub, and sometimes I forget that people die of this disease. What a tragic reminder.


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 Post subject: So sorry
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:53 am 
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Hi Katherine

I am Queenie. I am 68 years old and on Suboxone treatment for addiction to opiates due to many surgeries, amputations and emotional pain.

I am so, so sorry about Blue. I am a mother and grandmother of 2 boys 16 & 21. I can't begin to imagine your pain. However, I can sympathize with Blue's pain. Addiction is very difficult to fight, especially if there are emotional issues.

The pain is over for Blue now. I hope other's read this thread and find courage to fight this horrible disease so there will be less tears. Please be strong and help as many people as you can. I'm sure Blue would want that.

Thank you for writing to those of us who are still struggling.

May God bless you.

Queenie


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Iam so sorry my thoughts are with you and your family.


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 Post subject: My Condolances
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Katherine,

Thank You so much for coming here and letting us all know what happened. That act alone must have caused you more pain than normal. Grief takes so long to be comfortable again.

But know that by posting the news of Blue you gave us all a splash of water to wake us up from the day to day things we take for granted.

Addiction is a deadly disease. I too lost an older brother to an accidental overdose. Even on the day of his funeral, I still excused myself to go take my usual dose of Vicodin. Such irony. Even losing my brother didn't stop my behavior.

Thanks Again for posting. May he rest in peace.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Katherine,

I am so sorry for your loss. I know I am just a stranger on the internet, but my thoughts will be with you.

Thank you so very much for taking the time to let us know what happened to blue. I am sure that your story will touch many people and save more than one.

I am going to change your post to a "sticky" post so that more people will see it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:12 pm 
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Katherine,

I am so very sorry for your loss, you have my deepest sympathies.

How brave and considerate of you to share an extremely personal story like you just did, thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing Katherine.

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Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:10 pm 
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Thank you everybody for your kind words. I will say that I did not know much about the Suboxone treatment. "Blue" was taking prescribed percocets for 7 or so years due to an illness. He was in severe pain that only my father (his grandfather) endured with migraine headaches. When he was on the Suboxone program, he would constantly complain about driving sometimes close to 2 hrs to get to the clinic every week. When he was in pain, he did not want to go. He would also complain about the cost of the Suboxone itself even though his insurance helped a great deal. Still, $15-25 dollars every week is expensive when you're on social security.
I'm in NO way sticking up for Kevin's decision to quit the program. I'm trying to drive home with a point here. Kevin's doctor prescribed him several hundred percocets a month, AND would write him 2 post dated scripts to bring home. And each script would cost him $2. If they made Suboxone as easy to get as percocet, Kevin may be alive today.
Thank you all again


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:51 am 
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Thank you for telling us what happened to Blue. I was wondering why he stopped posting. I'm so sorry to hear that he died. He is missed.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:52 am 
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I remember this person and I remember that he seemed very sad. Still, this news is a shocking reminder to all of us that this disease kills people indiscriminately. It doesn't care whether you're a boy or a girl, white, black, Hispanic or Asian, and it doesn't care how much money you have or don't have or what side of the train tracks you come from. It kills anyone it can get its hooks into.

Let this be a reminder to all of us who have been given the gift of remission with suboxone that we must remain ever vigilant and never, ever, become complacent in our recovery efforts, for complacency will surely put us on the same path that our friend and compatriot found himself upon.

My deepest sorrow and condolences to you, Kathrine.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:39 pm 
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I didn't know Blue, and i never got to read his posts, but from what I read from his parent, I know exactly what he went through and can empathize with his pain.
I can also understand his parents frustration about the restrictions that go along with this medication as opposed to the ease at which opiates are obtained.
Hopefully they will take that frustration and speak out, don't let blue's death go in vain. Tell his story and help become an advocate for this medication and hopefully save someone else from that trouble.


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 Post subject: new here
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:19 pm 
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Hi- I'm Jeremy, and I'm new here. I have experienced recovery in emotional and in substance abuse areas, but I have no personal experience of chronic dependence. I guess I'm here as a listener- someone broadly interested in recovery, who would like to learn more about addiction, opiate addiction withdrawal and recovery, and particularly suboxone experiences.


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 Post subject: Re. Katherine
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:39 pm 
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I am new here also...was VERY touched and inspired buy Katherines Empathy for the REST of us by posting as she did. Very Touched !
As far as SUBOXONE.....OMG ....I am on day three (3).... of 4mg. in the morning and 4Mg. in the evening..(self dosed..the doc wanted me on 16mg). ....I HAVE NOT FELT THIS MUCH "ME" in YEARS...!!! Do I hurt...Hell YES...but CRAVE that crap(OXY) HELL NO....!!!!!
The expense is absurd(the cost) compared to cost of our DEVEL(hydro/oxy) !
Is it patent rights that are elevating the prices !

And Why in the world are our physicians "Limited" to only 100 patients ?????

SORRY to be off topic, but, it seems this medication is SOOO UNKNOWN. Ive been in rehab twice in the past 16 years and all I ever heard of was Methadone(and NO WAY did I want that route).

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If you do nothing, NOTHING happens !!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:19 am 
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Okla - I'm pasting the following below from Dr. Junig's blog. Instead of me speculating on the ridiculous reasons for the patient cap, I'd rather Dr. Junig do it the very unique way he has.

Quote:
The Cap
by SuboxDoc on July 17, 2011

Each physician who prescribes buprenorphine for opioid dependence can treat only 30 patients at a time during the first year as a certified prescriber. After a year, physicians can apply to have the limit increased to 100 patients. I have been at the 100-patient limit for some time, in part because of the shortage of providers willing to undergo training and go through the paperwork to get certified.

At the same time, there are no limits at all on the number of patients who can be treated by doctors with high-potency opioids, and no limits or regulations on the types of conditions that can be treated using narcotics. It is no surprise that I receive several calls per day from people who ask for help, who I am forced to turn away.

The 100-patient cap, combined with the shortage of doctors, results in one of the few areas of true health care rationing, and it is only appropriate that the rationing hit drug addicts– those viewed as society’s least deserving. I realize that some people see ‘inability to pay’ as a form of rationing, and I understand the point. But inability to pay has at least a theoretical solution—if not an actual solution if enough hoops are jumped through. For opioid dependence, the patient cap is an absolute restriction, with no grievance or appeal process for those left out.

I feel for the patients who call asking for help, and for the parents who sometimes call in place of the child-addict. If I am the first person called, the callers are surprised and angry at being turned away. Here they finally got up the nerve to ask for help, and the person on the end of the line won’t DO anything?! More often, though, my name was found halfway down a long list of telephone numbers from poorly-updated web directories of Suboxone doctors, and disappointment can be heard in the voice of the caller before the entire question is asked: are YOU accepting any new people?

The good part of the cap, I suppose, is that it reduces the opportunity for unscrupulous practices to become ‘Suboxone mills’, turning out addict after addict with easy prescriptions but without adequate education, follow-up, and counseling. I buy into this argument, but at the same time, I wonder why the concern over unscrupulous practices focuses so intensely over those who treat addiction? Should there not be equal concern over the number of patients that a neurosurgeon can care for?

Now that we have urgent care centers in supermarkets, is there no limit to the capacity for the doctor in the meat department to provide adequate care and follow-up for the patients who stop by? Or is it OK if a general practice doctor decides to schedule 20 patients per hour, so that each patient receives a bare minimum of focused care with no time for preventative medicine?

But we think differently about THOSE doctors—those who work in the clean world of treating asthma and ulcers and hemorrhoids—than we do about the docs who work with drug addicts. With the former, there is an assumption that the doctors are good people who will know their own limits and do the right thing—even as any trip to the doctor points out the folly of that assumption. And the latter group of doctors—those who stoop to treating addiction—are assumed to be incapable of determining, by themselves, the appropriate number of patients who can be safely seen in their practices. The expectation of bad practice comes from negative attitudes toward those with addictions, with doctors guilty by association. In short, the medical specialty of addiction treatment suffers the same negative stigma as do the addicts themselves.

Given these attitudes, I do not expect the shortage of buprenorphine prescribers to end anytime soon.


This is from: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/2011/07/17/the-cap/

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:34 pm 
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Hi Katherine, I am so sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing! I posted my opinion on the cap in the misc. forum. It is something I have been thinking a lot about. I would love to hear all of your opinions, but did not want to hijack this thread out of respect.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:21 am 
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I am extremely sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine what families go through when dealing with drug addiction. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Sincerely,

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:39 pm 
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All sympathies go out to you and your family.

You are an extremely strong woman that is doing a great service by posting here, and I'm sure that by doing so you are helping to save lives of people in similar situations.

I can't offer any more words, as I never knew blue, but you are an amazingly strong and courageous person Katherine and you and your family will be in my prayers, as well as everyone else that's here.

I hope you and you're family the best and hope you gain strength from God (or whatever Spiritual nature you believe or live) in times of tragedy, and again am deeply saddened by your story.

"To not be afraid. Do not be discouraged. For the Lord your God is with you wherever you may go"

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I have hit a block; long taper, got to 1mg daily and depression/anxiety kicked in. Back to 2-3mg a day, I feel like I relapsed... wtf!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:50 pm 
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[quote="Katherine"]Thank you everybody for your kind words. I will say that I did not know much about the Suboxone treatment. "Blue" was taking prescribed percocets for 7 or so years due to an illness. He was in severe pain that only my father (his grandfather) endured with migraine headaches. When he was on the Suboxone program, he would constantly complain about driving sometimes close to 2 hrs to get to the clinic every week. When he was in pain, he did not want to go. He would also complain about the cost of the Suboxone itself even though his insurance helped a great deal. Still, $15-25 dollars every week is expensive when you're on social security.
I'm in NO way sticking up for Kevin's decision to quit the program. I'm trying to drive home with a point here. Kevin's doctor prescribed him several hundred percocets a month, AND would write him 2 post dated scripts to bring home. And each script would cost him $2. If they made Suboxone as easy to get as percocet, Kevin may be alive today.
Thank you all again[/quote]

Such a good point... I know these are older post. But I am just now reading them and they are helping me. You are so right. They hand out the pain killers such as vic's perk's ect like it was candy.. But try and find a Dr to treat you with Sub's to get off the stuff. And because it is a new medication not a lot of insurance is covering it and the cost is very high. I pay $350 a month for the Dr visit and the Rx not to mention the gas to get to my Dr. I drive 1 hr there and an hr back. I am not complaning though because you would not belive the disstance I would travle to get my drugs. It is well worth it. Sub's has save my life and my relationships with my family.


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