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 Post subject: In a bit of a pickle.
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 11:48 pm 
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Hey there folks....Long time, no post. I hope everyone is doing well.

I just want to give a little update on myself...My time on the patience assistant program ended which sucked but luckily thanks to Obamacare, I now have healthcare for the first time in four years. Problem is, my insurance is dicking me over about the Suboxone. First, I had to have my doctor send in approval for me being on the medication....Even though he is the one writing the scripts so that made no sense and that took over a month so that was all out of pocket costs. Also, we reached our premium or something so now we have to pay out of pocket costs for medicines till it is met. My Mom's and Brother's medications are partly covered but for whatever reason they aren't covering a dime of my Suboxone. I'm still clean, still on 16MG once daily and doing alright for the most part. After I got on the insurance, I got a massive amount of blood work done just to see what's going on with me and it turns out I have a very low vitamin D count and testosterone levels. My doctor said that this happens frequently in males who abuse opiates for a long time then coming off of them. So, I started taking some vitamin D tablets and if there isn't any positive results we will start a injection based testosterone treatment since Vitamin D levels and testosterone are closely linked.

Now though, I've ran into a little predicament. I was cleaning out my closet and I found an old bottle of 22 10MG oxycodone...and this is what brought me here. I haven't taken any yet, but I've just been staring at them. I know that with the levels of bupe that are currently in my system I wont feel a thing but it still is tempting the hell out of me. I guess I came here for...I don't know, just to talk to someone about it. I've been opiate free nearly two years but it still doesn't change the fact I want to swallow this whole bottle. It's gone through my head to stop taking my meds for a few days just so I can get a little high off of the oxy. I thought I would be stronger than this but I guess I'm not.

Another thing that has really, really been angering me is that I'm feeling pressure from some people I know to stop taking my Suboxone and start tapering.....Even more so now since I have health care and I can attend a rehab program. It's really, really pissing me off since I honestly intend on staying on Suboxone for.....Well, maybe forever. Just like anyone takes a high blood pressure pill, their insulin, or anti depressants. They have improved my depression dramatically and really just made me a better person but it doesn't matter, people just view it as substituting one drug for another even though I try to explain to them that I haven't gotten a high feeling from Suboxone since the first month I was on it. Has anyone else felt this sort of resentment from people they know?

I'm glad this place is still here.....I'm starting to feel a little better already just getting all of this off of my chest.

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:07 am 
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Mayun! It's SO good to "see" you again, although I'm sorry for the some of the circumstances that brought you back to us. About the oxy...I think if you really wanted to take it you would have and would not have come here and said one word to us. You are reaching out and asking for help because you don't want to take them. That's HUGE! That said, boy do I understand the temptation. I haven't been in your shoes, but I imagine I would feel the same way as you do right now and to be honest I don't know how I would handle it. But I think we both know how we SHOULD handle it, right?? And that is to get rid of that bottle and RIGHT THE HELL NOW!!! Don't risk the two years of hard work you've put into turning your life around. Because you know it won't just be that one incident...it will turn into the same old vicious cycle it always does. Your life will become a mess of out of control chaos again quicker than you think and before you know it, it will be like you were never on suboxone and in remission. Do you want that? I didn't think so. Flush those pills!

I'm going to let the men who've had testosterone issues address that, but I will say that it's my understanding that gels like Androgel are sufficient for low testosterone levels. My husband uses it and has never had to take shots. Also, I personally have low Vitamin D levels (linked to my fibromyalgia). Once those go back up to normal you'll likely have more energy and less fatigue. You may not even realize you had any fatigue until you feel better.

I hear you about people being on your ass about you going off suboxone. But that's your decision and yours alone. It's your quality of life, not theirs. If the people in your life are judging you, are they really good friends? I don't blame you for feeling such resentment towards them. It seems only natural for you to feel that way. What business is it of theirs anyway? I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but you're right, they wouldn't be saying these things to you if it were for some other medical condition. And that does piss me off, too. I guess if these people are important to you you'll have to find some way to come to some sort of understanding on the subject. You may just have to insist that the subject remain off limits. I mean do you even discuss their medications at all? Most people simply don't ever discuss such things.

Again, it's really good to hear from you. Now please, go flush those pills and don't skip any sub doses, OK? And keep us posted on things. I'm really glad you came back and reached out to us. GOOD ON YOU!

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:38 am 
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Oh, Hat. I knew you'd be the first one to respond to my post, you always are. Thanks a lot for your kind words, they eased a bit of the tension but I'm still literally sweating....It's like, I don't want to take them but my body is going into crave mode...Something I haven't experienced for a while. My pupils are dilated, i'm salivating a bit, and feel sick to my stomach.

All of that being said, I'm going to flush them....Well...Try too at least. It's like flushing gold down to the toilet.

Also, I forgot to mention in my first post that I had to give my Mom my Suboxone....I'm currently living with her since I can't afford anything else. Anyways, being unemployed so long with nothing to do, and not knowing anyone I began abusing my Suboxone and was taking up to 32MG's at a time. I was running out early, 72 hours plus before my Doctor's appointment and it was absolutely horrible. I started off fine on the Suboxone...Even taking less than prescribed but over time I began "experimenting", which turned into straight out abuse. That stopped back in December though and I've been stable since now she is the one who gives me my daily dose.

Another thing that is agitating me is what reckitt benckiser is doing with the films. Now, my doctor will basically only give me the films and the insurance covers much more of the film versus the tablets. Now, since they've switched everyone from Subutext and Suboxone tablets onto the films it's always low in stock at my pharmacy, I often can only get two at a time before having to come back the next day to pick up my script. Last weekend, I had to go Saturday and Sunday without my subs since the pharmacy didn't have any and they don't get medications refilled on the weekend. The lead pharmacist has asked them many, many times for a larger quantity but they will only give him a certain amount, which is driving up the prices. Anyone else having this problem?

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:22 am 
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You are obviously trying really really hard, what with having your mom hold your films and all. I'm really proud of you! There's something else I must say before I go on. And that is that you have been greatly missed around here - just so you know that! Have you considered coming back and posting a bit more often? Maybe that will serve to tighten up your recovery some....just a thought I had. It's something for you to think about. We'd love to have you back.

It sucks that you're having problems with the pharmacy and the films. Personally, I'm still on the tablets. I never liked the films and my doctor allowed me to return to the tablets. My insurance company didn't seem to mind either - my copay is the same with both.

You said you were having trouble with taking too much suboxone. You know that's a common problem, right? You're certainly not the first, nor the last, to do that. Please don't feel so bad about it. And giving them to your mom was the perfect solution. How long ago was that? Are you feeling pretty stable taking your normal dose? Since you've been around here for a long time, you probably know that many of us tend to take a bit less than our prescribed dose here and there so that we can save up a bit of a back stock, just in case something like what you described happening at the pharmacy were to come to fruition. Is that something that you could do? Maybe take 12 mg every other day or so and keep the 1/2 films in plastic baggies for emergencies when the pharmacies have run out? I know for me I have a good deal of extra sub saved up and I never have to worry about going into the doctor or pharmacy at the exact time every month/3 months. It gives me a lot of extra flexibility. I think if you dropped down to 12 mg once or twice a week (if you decide to do that), you shouldn't feel a thing and it would allow you to build up that back stock. Again, it's just a thought I had.

Hang in there, my friend. I really do hope to see you hanging around here for a good while to come. Your contributions to this forum have always been very valuable. Take care. :)

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 7:47 am 
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Hi and congratulations on 2 years....

You know I've talked to so many people...addicts/alcoholics...some with a year or two sobriety, some with 15+ years...and everyone says the same....we/they see someone drinking out of a frosty, beautifullly shaped martini glass, see a bottle of pills (no matter what they are) and our heads turn...we are drawn to thinking..."what are they drinking? What is in that bottle?" It's just the way it is...nonaddicts don't think this way, but no matter how much time we have in recovery we can be tempted or at least curious.

Get rid of that bottle of pills! ASAP. Or, give them to someone to hide them from you, out of your house. They will become bigger than the house itself if you allow your brain to keep thinking about them. Why make things more difficult for yourself? You are doing well on Sub....maybe you will be someone who needs it for life...why throw away all this work for a pill that will NOT do you any good in any way...you won't get high, you won't feel them....but what you will do is beat yourself up if you take them....then your addict brain wins and starts thinking...well fuck it...i've blown it now might as well go for it.... that is how our brains work and when I talk about shutting all the doors to our addiction I'm including all of that thinking that can push into a relapse or relapse mode.

I had oral surgery a couple of months ago and I posted about it...it might have seem weird to post so much about a tooth exraction but I know how my brain works. I know I need to tell people what I'm thinking, be accountable, talk things through and not just think about them...its awesome you posted about this because that means you really don't want those pills at all. You are being accountable by talking about it...you know the saying 'we're as sick as our secrets' ? It's true. If you hadn't posted about it that would have given your addict brain another little in. Opening the door a crack to allow that secret to fester and grow.

So don't torture yourself with having those pills in close proximity. If you don't want to flush them give them to someone who can lock them up, someone you can trust. Tell them to NOT give them to you under any circumstances and then you can let go and move on from thinking about them.

I remember my 2nd treatment, I'd just finished detox and was attending outpatient and we had to do an intervention on my ex (dentist) father-in-law. He was addicted to vicodin, valium, etoh. My now exhusband didn't want to do a formal intervention, he wanted to do it himself...and he wanted me to come along to support him and to talk to his father about addiction and recovery....(they knew I was in recovery and knew I had relapsed). So I gathered all my NA and AA literature and books and headed out. I called my sponsor every 30 minutes I think...I was pretty scared to do this for many reasons, the biggest being my OWN sanity and recovery. We got to their house at about 11pm on a Friday night and they were both passed out. She is an alcoholic and addicted to xanax...Well, the point is we got to their house, they were passed out so my ex searched the house for pills and we found a bottle of 1000 vicodin in his dresser. I couldn't stop thinking about them and I literally ran out of their room...and told my ex to get rid of them, throw them out because I was only 2 weeks out of detox at that point. And not on Sub or Naloxone or anything. But to see that many pills was conflicting. I didn't want them, I did want them. Being a dentist, at that time, he could get that may for "patient"' use.

My ex father-in-law admitted to using. We ended up having to take him to detox because he had been on etoh and benzos and was looking pretty bad....I was fearful he would seize...but he did admit it....but soon relapsed on etoh about 3 months later. I think it was impossible to live with his wife and not drink as everything they did revolved around a party atmosphere. It was a very challenging place to visit for me...and I finally quit going. Talk about Monster-in-law...geesh.

I just know how finding a bottle of pills might feel...and how quickly we can have them in our pocket. It doesn't matter if we think about them, it just is. What is more important is NOT taking them...having a solid recovery program so when these things happen it doesn't sabotoge us.



Thanks for posting about it. It helps to realize, too, that its not just you who thinks that way. I used to think I was the only one who craved opiates like I did...I didn't really understand how powerful and how baffling this disease is.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:40 am 
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Well, the good news is I didn't end up taking any pills. I flushed them down the toilet and it felt better than I thought it would. One side of my brain was happy for my accomplishment, the other side was ready to jump down into the sewer and retrieve my treasure.

I gave my mother the strips back in late December and since I see my doctor monthly and it's usually always a few days before, I have at least an extra week's to ten day's worth of Suboxone left over. I really want to switch Doctor's but I'm afraid that I'm going to get a new doctor who wants to try and lower my dose or ween me off. I'm now very comfortable and stable at my dose and I have intention of jeopardizing that. It's just very annoying having to see my doctor every month. Lately, I've had too since I got on insurance and I've been running a bunch of tests. I got put on Testim Gel (Testosterone) and it hasn't really work like I expected and I'm fairly certain I'm growing moobs (man boobs) so I don't know how much longer I want to stay on it despite the fact my testosterone levels were very,very low.My doctor and I think I may have chronic fatigue syndrome. Weirdly enough, I've read about it online and a lot of the people who have it say the best medication to take to help with the fatigue is a low dose of Adderoll.

I want to know is how often do you people see your doctor? I've heard of people on here who say over three to six months which I would much rather prefer. The Insurance covered my last batch of medication but it's just a crapshoot every time. Either it's all covered or not covered at all. If, I can get my doctor to prescribe me three months worth I can get my meds through the mail it will cost only 150 dollars for a three months supply worth of medication which is a fantastic deal.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:42 am 
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I'm so glad you didn't take them. :)

My suboxone doctor happens to also be my primary care doctor, so I only see him every three months, however, it's my understanding that's pretty rare. Most people, I believe, do see their doctors once a month. Have you tried explaining your situation to your doctor?

I've never heard of people taking Adderall for Chronic Fatigue. I have it, and I take a combination of vitamins and supplements for it - Vitamin B-100, Vitamin D, and Carnitor (AKA L-Carnitine). The Carnitor works the best for helping with my fatigue. I get it via a prescription, but I think it can be obtained over the counter as well.

Hang in there and thanks for the update.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:55 am 
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http://www.chronicfatiguetreatments.com ... c1066.html

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:05 am 
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Ah, that link is from a forum where members are saying that Adderall helps. But I wouldn't suggest anyone with an addiction problem take a stimulant that is addictive in nature. For that matter I wouldn't suggest anyone without ADD/ADHD taking Adderall either. And for CFS, it's not addressing the cause of the fatigue, it's merely treating the symptoms, whereas the supplements actually treat the problem - low levels in the blood causing the fatigue.

I hope you don't mind my saying this. I mean no disrespect, I hope you know that.

Regardless, I hope you get to feeling better very soon.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:35 pm 
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I have no idea if that's the course of treatment i'll be put on, just putting it out there. As for stimulants which I dabbled around with in the past I have no addiction towards those, not even a little bit. The sweating, the senseless rambling, the restlessness, stomach pains, dehydration, insomnia...That's just not my cup of tea. Most of the time, I like reading testimonials of people who have dealt with something before rather than just some generic posting on a medical website.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:31 am 
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mayunholdup wrote:
I have no idea if that's the course of treatment i'll be put on, just putting it out there. As for stimulants which I dabbled around with in the past I have no addiction towards those, not even a little bit. The sweating, the senseless rambling, the restlessness, stomach pains, dehydration, insomnia...That's just not my cup of tea. Most of the time, I like reading testimonials of people who have dealt with something before rather than just some generic posting on a medical website.


I've heard of Adderall being used for both chronic fatigue and narcolepsy, as well as ADHD. I also know they give stimulants to people going through chemo and suffering the extreme exhaustion associated with that. I have taken Adderall in the past, as well as Dexedrine and Ritalin, since I do have ADHD, which I was diagnosed with as a child. I'm not on now, because I'm not working or in school, but I may start again in the future if I am struggling with the same stuff. Anyway, it is 'addictive', yet not everyone experiences this. I never took more of my meds than I was supposed to. It just didn't seem tempting and I always had plenty left over every month. Who wants to screw with their sleep cycle and be over amped? Not me. I'm already over amped, which is my problem! :D There's a little window where it helps you, and anything below or above that window isn't good. I never suffered from withdrawals from it either. I used to instantly quit taking it on winter break or summer vacation...just like that. It wasn't tough whatsoever. However, I know some people do struggle with this. If you have a doctor who is willing to script you a low dose of Adderall, then perhaps you should see if it works for CFS, which I know can really suck. You would have to be extremely careful, though, and very honest with yourself and your doctor. You don't want another addiction!!! I'd probably try the vitamin route first, just to see if it works.

Good luck!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:52 am 
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mmmmm pickles


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:51 pm 
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Hi Mayan, it's good to see you. Good job flushing those pills. From what you have said it sounds like you should give that T gel more time to work. I think the testosterone will build up in your system over time (maybe someone who is on it will have more info), and it should help with your energy levels. Also, for me the Sub itself makes me draggy. The only cure for it is to force yourself to get out and do something, or at least go for a walk. I know it's easier said than done. I'm not working steadily, and it's so easy for me just to lay around. I'm just suggesting you try these things. Then later if you do decide to go on other medication, at least you will be confident that you'll ruled other options out.
Good luck,
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:26 pm 
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So, I just took my first dose of adderall a few hours ago and I must say I feel much better. I'm a pretty big guy, and I'm only on 10mg's which is a very, very low dose. It's for sure given me an energy boost without making me feel jittery or loopy. I hope this isn't something I have to do for the long, long term because that would for sure mean dosage increases as my tolerance builds but for now I have to say it has really helped.

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 Post subject: aderal
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:19 am 
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i have said many times here that i have been having the same feelings mayonholup has. the rambling and bone pain also".
i ask my doctor for aderal, and A BIG NO is what i got. but like i said this has been going on for 4 months. i took 15mg 3 months ago, and felt much better. took it for about a week, then ran out and felt like hell. i wish i could get?????.
antidepr- don't help withdrawllike pain. mayonholdup". how did you ask your doc to prescribe you adderal? i wish i could find a doc like yours! i just need a little comfort for awile so i can visit some people with out falling apart . and also withstand the shit i get in this area ! ya just don't go on in life suffering for ever. they'rs got to be a break some time in it. i bet they'rs a lot of people that feel the same way that i do! but now i have to go replace my sparkplug coil" on my truck. and latter try and practice my piano and synthesizer in my music studio. oh how". the abilify use to help me with my (IMPROVISING) ". be for it turned on me. my doc herd my c.d. recordings on the abilify, and noticed no mistakes. but now i have yo do it the hard way! music is one of the hardest things in life to accomplish . or get any were with! adderal would help, but i worry that it would lessen my ability to concentrate .


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:43 am 
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i do have a studio. and playing piano for 30 years. but i can't make f'n scents". i guess all these drugs are helping? but taking away my cents$. is anybody feeling like there loosing more concentration? i did'nt even no there was a topic review :oops: :?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:11 am 
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Johnboy you're a fellow synth / keys / studio nut? It's been a hobby of mine for a while as well. Unfortunately some great equipment has been sold over the years because of my addiction :(

I found amphetamines + music didn't work out in the end. At first they were a godsend. I was SO productive, and I was pumping out 3 or 4 tunes a week. After a while I think my brain was getting scrambled though and I found myself getting into these weird loops where I'd tweak a single synth patch for hours on end trying to get it perfect. Eventually I was so unproductive I gave up. Then came the hard realisation any time I tried to write music without it, I just couldn't do it. The motivation and inspiration was gone. It took about 4 years before I could do a tune again.

Just like any drug, really, I guess. Promises the world ... but

And I hear ya about the concentration. Esp some of the psych meds messed with it. The thing that's messed up most of all though is my memory - name memory, and organisational skills (I'm always double booking and forgetting things now). I think the amphetamines had a lot to do with this though. Whenever I used to relapse on opiates, I'd forget any new names of people I'd met recently. Just names though, not faces or conversations.

Funny you mention improvising. Some of my most emotional improv sessions were alone when I was in mild wd's from opiates!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:49 pm 
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but the medication," made me think i was kicking ass in my music. until i really listen'd to it 2 months latter
ya" you hit the nail on the hammer!! on improv sessions alone 12 A.M to 4 A.M were my best. did you like a song at first,then dislike it later . and then the other way around ? i'm not to sure bout the w/d :? oh"' slight hang'o'. but anyway i got to do something soon. i can't rrrrreeemmmeeemmmbbbbeeerrrr things. and it's been getting worse. my doc will forget if i tell him?
i am also waking upat 6 a.m. and then i look at the clock and it's 6 p.m . i'm starting to get quit scared. it seems like i may be having "greyouts". can you identify with this? thanks tear3jerker i becha talented . oh and i'm taking only my 16mg s a day.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:33 am 
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tear3jerker". it's your fellow synth again! did you say your name was memory? "oop's. i'm also going into the unproductive department with practice in the past 4 months. i 'm trying to think of what i was going to say,uuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmm
oh well skip it! the abilify was a Godsend at the first couple of months too." i thought that i was in heaven! i for get names but not faces. it's common i think? what kind of equipment did you get rid of? i lost a ( yamaha xw740- digital piano) gambling :( i am a heavy gambler '. and it sucks."'" lost uncounted amounts in the past years,but did not do the crazy stuff like other people did, like steeling and so on. but on the other hand (emotions)' suboxone takes away the drugs.and some of the drinking perhaps .but funny thing"". i haven't been gambling ever snt's i been on the subs.!! i guess of what it doe's to your emotions.
but one thing? suboxone took about 80% of my gambling away!! ( Hat-'" maybe new topic)
strange too' couse what other can it take from??? its good that sub took it but this should go to the emotions topic beboy.
.i'm geeeting slllllleeeepppyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.snooooooozzz.sorry dosed off


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:04 am 
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Sounds like you need your sleep man.

Things I've sold? Korg Karma, Takamine G Series gittar, Behringer Truths (don't miss them really), Presonus Firestudio, $400 worth of acoustic foam.. sure there's other stuff. :| And I often got ripped off massively by the pawn shops (assh0les).

Interestin you said about the suboxone helping the gambling. I got massively addicted to women in my clean stretch, sounds fun / normal but it really isn't when you chase them like a drug. This time I'm on suboxone and that obsession is gone - or at least at a normal level. I think Suboxone just gives our addictive brain it's daily "feed" so it doesn't seek out other vices.

I was on Abilify once. It's got a funny name. Gives you the ABILIFY to do anything!

Anyway. Massive thread hijack.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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