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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Holy crap! Is this too good to be true? I've posted on here a bunch about the fact that my best friend was also on Sub (since 2006) and has also been tapering and all that. She got sick of tapering and she jumped a week ago from 1 mg, which I thought was too high to jump from, but that's what she wanted to do so she did it.

She IS very tough, so that's something to keep in mind, but we've been talking a few times a day and she's been updating me as to how she feels and she felt downright horrible from Day 2 through yesterday, which was the sixth day out. The girl sounded like she was dieing; she could barely talk. She could not even sit up. Then, today, she called me and OMG! She feels good! WTF?! She feels nearly totally normal, and this is only Day 7. Has she just not hit the really rough part yet or do you guys think that this could be how it goes sometimes if you taper to 1 mg? I'm just absolutely shocked that she sounds and feels so good. She had a gigantic hoard of Sub and she even flushed it all! That's how confident she is. I'm trying to figure out how this could be possible!! I mean, the Sub isn't even out of her system yet, right? I'm so happy for her, and then there's a part of me that feels like now I'm alone on Sub, because we've been in this together this whole time. For the most part, though, I'm just hoping this is a trend that continues, because i want her to keep feeling good and also, it makes me way less afraid of the big jump, KWIM? Basically, she spent the last week in bed all the time, unable to drive or do anything at all. Then, today she is okay and running errands and she's kinda waiting for the other shoe to drop because she doesn't think this can be possible either. She also doesn't know if she can really say that she feels totally fine, because like me, she's used to being achy and at least slightly uncomfortable alll the time. And she does feel like the w/d is kinda looming and about to pounce so she's afraid to say that she really is feeling alright. So, it may be a bit relative, but seriously, if jumping from a mg means one week in hell and then you start to improve...well, that's just not so bad AT ALL!!!!!!! Oh, and I should mention that she's been taking Xanax for the past six days, but she doesn't normally take it. Today she didn't need any. She's also taking Neurontin, which she says works really well, and she is still taking that, but that's it. No Clonidine even.

Tell me what you think.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:10 pm 
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Is this actually your "best" friend? The reason I ask is, why would she flush her Sub when knowing that you could use them - and the value/cost of them to you. I'm just sayin.

As to what is going on with her, I think it is too soon to tell. The thing I have seen over and over again is people have good days and bad days after the initial acute withdrawal passes. That could very well be going on with her. She very well may just be having a better day. If she is like most, she will continue to have ups and downs as she moves along.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:40 pm 
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donh wrote:
Is this actually your "best" friend? The reason I ask is, why would she flush her Sub when knowing that you could use them - and the value/cost of them to you. I'm just sayin.

As to what is going on with her, I think it is too soon to tell. The thing I have seen over and over again is people have good days and bad days after the initial acute withdrawal passes. That could very well be going on with her. She very well may just be having a better day. If she is like most, she will continue to have ups and downs as she moves along.


Um, yes, she is my very best friend in the world...probably the closest friend I've ever had in my life. About 'sharing' Sub, we have done that in the past. Not proud of it, but we've both been through our husbands being unexpectedly laid off and then being seriously broke. So, we've helped each other out when desperate, but it's one of those things that you just do not want to do in a friendship IMO if you don't HAVE to. I moved away, so now instead of seeing her everyday almost, I have to settle for talking to her and seeing her now and then, but she's still my best friend. Is she supposed to mail Subs to me? I think that's a prison sentence. Plus, she's been on tabs and I'm on films. I don't need anymore films. I've got enough to get me through the rest of my taper and I did that on purpose so I could use that discount card thing.

So, then do you think she's through the acute w/d and will now just go onto the PAWS thing or do you think a person can get a break in their acute and then go back into it?

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:17 pm 
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Hey LT.....that is so great about your friend...I know you've said she's been sooooo sick and that has scared me. I kinda worry, based only on what I've been reading now getting ready for my own taper..that it seems too early to be "out of the woods"...that so many people seem to go up and down for quite a while...and I just don't know enough about issues like how long someone is one Sub vs short term sub use and tapering....does short term make it easier? I've heard both ways....and what I think I remember you saying is she's been on it for a while....so flushing her sub!! Wow. I kinda think that was a very optimistic move....LOL....and I hope it works...Our brains really make or break this sometimes...and if she's feeling that optimistic maybe she will do just fine. I've told this story before of people I've known in the past saying that when they were in jail for drugs and the KNEW they could not get any they didn't have w/d, but if they ran out at home and knew drugs were available to them but maybe couldn't afford them or whatever that they had w/d....so mind over matter...it is a huge part of it. So I'd just encourage her good feelings, not bring up anything negative.. (not that you would) and pray for the best for her. I hope she does well.

I just tried a jump from 8mg to 6mg today.. I was super busy, not thinking about it, not at all worried about that jump and by 4pm felt like shit...hot flashes, well, had hot flashes all morning off and on, starting getting a headache again, and just feeling crappy, and needing to work out but had to take a rest which is NOT like me...I ended up being a wuss and took the piece I broke off today (it was not an exact measurememt today) and sure enough I feel fine again after abot 45 min. I'm pissed that I didn't push through it but maybe I should just go down 1mg instead. I really didn't think jumping 2 mg would make a difference...it could be just the day, or who knows. I was NOT focused on my physical symptoms...waiting to feol bad, you know? But I'll try again tomorrow. Man, I really wish I could have not taken the other 2mg...but part of me wanted to see if that was indeed the issue today.

So, tomorrow's another day! let us know how your friend is doing tomorrow....I hope she is over the hell of w/d. It's such a horrible thing we suffer through. I've only been on sub now for 4months. Wow...that long! I can't believe it. But let me tell you this....being on sub is a hell of a lot better than being on methadone for me. one thing I have noticed is I'm having some edema...anyone else have this? (swelling in my feet, slight)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:37 am 
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I think its really hard to compare one wd to another, a bunch of variables go into it so honestly nobody is going to know for sure if she has made it through the worst......Maybe she has, I sure hope so I love ready positive stories. It gives me hope


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:21 am 
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wow good for her!! Good to hear uplifting stories :) its very encouraging


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:53 am 
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How 'bout an update on your BFF.


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 Post subject: Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:21 am 
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donh, I hate to say it, but you were right. Here's the update: And BTW, she needs to get on here, and she keeps saying she will, but she doesn't, so....

She felt good for two days after feeling like crap for about a week. Then, her symptoms came back. It's been very up and down. It's weird because she'll feel good one day and the very next day, she feels yucky again. It's following an upward trend, but the slope is gradual and it changes so much from day to day. She's had diarrhea this whole time and finally just took Immodium after I told her enough was enough, and she said it erased nearly all her symptoms. She didn't want to take it because she thought if her body was doing that, she needed to let it get it out or something. She does have her old belly laugh back. I don't think she tells me the full extent of it when she feels bad, because she's always afraid she's going to scare me. I want to hear it because I'd rather be prepared than shocked when I get there....

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Re: Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:50 pm 
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laddertipper wrote:
donh, I hate to say it, but you were right. Here's the update: And BTW, she needs to get on here, and she keeps saying she will, but she doesn't, so....

She felt good for two days after feeling like crap for about a week. Then, her symptoms came back. It's been very up and down. It's weird because she'll feel good one day and the very next day, she feels yucky again. It's following an upward trend, but the slope is gradual and it changes so much from day to day. She's had diarrhea this whole time and finally just took Immodium after I told her enough was enough, and she said it erased nearly all her symptoms. She didn't want to take it because she thought if her body was doing that, she needed to let it get it out or something. She does have her old belly laugh back. I don't think she tells me the full extent of it when she feels bad, because she's always afraid she's going to scare me. I want to hear it because I'd rather be prepared than shocked when I get there....

laddertipper


When i stopped i felt abit like there was a cycle going on - like 5-6 days with the same symptoms and then some improvement - then 5-6 days before any noticable improvement again. Going from say, 100% wd to 75% can probally feels like " hey im doing great!". But then you start getting really annoyed and impatient with those 75%.
The diarhea sticked very long time with me( not litterally), i think more than a month or maybe even 1 1/2.

Im pretty sure you wont be shocked by the w/d`s when you stop - its abit like jumping into a lake and realise that, yea, its cold, but i can swim. The worst thing for me was defenately the anxiety and the time slowing down - and i didnt had any clonidine.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:28 pm 
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I 150% agree with Filur11 to a "T"!!

Im here on day 38 after stopping at .5 and after the first 2 or so weeks the improvements are spaced out and drag ass. Over a week ago, I woke up one morning and honestly felt nearly 100%. I had energy, focus, motivation...life was GREAT. The next morning I woke up and was back at 85%. This back and forth stuff has been going on for the past few weeks. But i will say this, I've kept a journal of how I've felt, and the "backstepping" has gotten steadily better...meaning, at week 3 I was steadily at 75%, with good days at 85%, now Im at 85% with good days in the 100's. If I hadnt kept a journal though I would think that nothing was getting better and I was just having "good" and "bad" days.

Im pretty confident that your friend will look back a few weeks from now and be both proud and amazed at her progress.

As addicts, we are all "instant gratification"/"immediate fixes" type people, so its that much more frustrating dealing with this S L O W drawn out process of PAWS and feeling better.

One last thing, I can not tell you enough how glad I am that i jumped.. I have ZERO regrets, the benefits out weigh the W/D stuff and the lingering PAWS a million times over. Im back to myself in almost all ways....something I never thought would be possible.

Congrats to your friend for committing and not looking back! And congrats to you too Ladder, you getting your dose down to where you're at couldnt have been easy, you're doing great!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Hey filur, how ya doing man? I'm glad you cleared up the thing about the diarrhea sticking to you! :lol:

wickd, day 38!! I'm glad to hear that you're making your way through, good for you!! Stay strong!

I completely agree with all of what you guys said. The up and down of sub wd is worst at the beginning and it eventually levels off. I remember somewhere in week 1 I felt great for several, several hours, but then I got taken down hard again. Looking back, I call that a 'dead cat bounce.' That's a stock market term, but it sure fit with what I felt like that day. Ladder, this sure sounds like what happened to your friend.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:14 am 
laddertipper wrote:
Holy crap! Is this too good to be true? I've posted on here a bunch about the fact that my best friend was also on Sub (since 2006) and has also been tapering and all that. She got sick of tapering and she jumped a week ago from 1 mg, which I thought was too high to jump from, but that's what she wanted to do so she did it.

She IS very tough, so that's something to keep in mind, but we've been talking a few times a day and she's been updating me as to how she feels and she felt downright horrible from Day 2 through yesterday, which was the sixth day out. The girl sounded like she was dieing; she could barely talk. She could not even sit up. Then, today, she called me and OMG! She feels good! WTF?! She feels nearly totally normal, and this is only Day 7. Has she just not hit the really rough part yet or do you guys think that this could be how it goes sometimes if you taper to 1 mg? I'm just absolutely shocked that she sounds and feels so good. She had a gigantic hoard of Sub and she even flushed it all! That's how confident she is. I'm trying to figure out how this could be possible!! I mean, the Sub isn't even out of her system yet, right? I'm so happy for her, and then there's a part of me that feels like now I'm alone on Sub, because we've been in this together this whole time. For the most part, though, I'm just hoping this is a trend that continues, because i want her to keep feeling good and also, it makes me way less afraid of the big jump, KWIM? Basically, she spent the last week in bed all the time, unable to drive or do anything at all. Then, today she is okay and running errands and she's kinda waiting for the other shoe to drop because she doesn't think this can be possible either. She also doesn't know if she can really say that she feels totally fine, because like me, she's used to being achy and at least slightly uncomfortable alll the time. And she does feel like the w/d is kinda looming and about to pounce so she's afraid to say that she really is feeling alright. So, it may be a bit relative, but seriously, if jumping from a mg means one week in hell and then you start to improve...well, that's just not so bad AT ALL!!!!!!! Oh, and I should mention that she's been taking Xanax for the past six days, but she doesn't normally take it. Today she didn't need any. She's also taking Neurontin, which she says works really well, and she is still taking that, but that's it. No Clonidine even.

Tell me what you think.

laddertipper


How is it even possible? really? Go watch someone face down in chemo, then tell me sub detox is so hard you have to ask why its possible someone could get clean when they make it there number one priority. It sounds like you really doubted her.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:02 am 
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Onniegrapples wrote:
laddertipper wrote:
Holy crap! Is this too good to be true? I've posted on here a bunch about the fact that my best friend was also on Sub (since 2006) and has also been tapering and all that. She got sick of tapering and she jumped a week ago from 1 mg, which I thought was too high to jump from, but that's what she wanted to do so she did it.

She IS very tough, so that's something to keep in mind, but we've been talking a few times a day and she's been updating me as to how she feels and she felt downright horrible from Day 2 through yesterday, which was the sixth day out. The girl sounded like she was dieing; she could barely talk. She could not even sit up. Then, today, she called me and OMG! She feels good! WTF?! She feels nearly totally normal, and this is only Day 7. Has she just not hit the really rough part yet or do you guys think that this could be how it goes sometimes if you taper to 1 mg? I'm just absolutely shocked that she sounds and feels so good. She had a gigantic hoard of Sub and she even flushed it all! That's how confident she is. I'm trying to figure out how this could be possible!! I mean, the Sub isn't even out of her system yet, right? I'm so happy for her, and then there's a part of me that feels like now I'm alone on Sub, because we've been in this together this whole time. For the most part, though, I'm just hoping this is a trend that continues, because i want her to keep feeling good and also, it makes me way less afraid of the big jump, KWIM? Basically, she spent the last week in bed all the time, unable to drive or do anything at all. Then, today she is okay and running errands and she's kinda waiting for the other shoe to drop because she doesn't think this can be possible either. She also doesn't know if she can really say that she feels totally fine, because like me, she's used to being achy and at least slightly uncomfortable alll the time. And she does feel like the w/d is kinda looming and about to pounce so she's afraid to say that she really is feeling alright. So, it may be a bit relative, but seriously, if jumping from a mg means one week in hell and then you start to improve...well, that's just not so bad AT ALL!!!!!!! Oh, and I should mention that she's been taking Xanax for the past six days, but she doesn't normally take it. Today she didn't need any. She's also taking Neurontin, which she says works really well, and she is still taking that, but that's it. No Clonidine even.

Tell me what you think.

laddertipper


How is it even possible? really? Go watch someone face down in chemo, then tell me sub detox is so hard you have to ask why its possible someone could get clean when they make it there number one priority. It sounds like you really doubted her.


So, all the people on here on Sub are not 'clean'? And if they would only make it 'their number one priority' in life, it would be possible for them to get 'clean' by stopping Suboxone? And if I go watch someone laying face down getting chemo, I'll no longer tell you sub detox is so hard? Onniegrapples, that was both rude and ridiculous. I cannot say I'm offended, though, because even if your opinion carried enough weight to offend me, it would first have to make sense. I hope you get a handle on your anger or at least learn to not spread it around.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:27 am 
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@Onniegrapples

I am in 100% agreement with laddertipper. I felt the post by Onniegrapples was not only mostly ignorant but downright rude! So basically what he or her is saying is the just because coming off the subs for us (and MOST EVERYBODY) is difficult the way you presented is almost like saying "Well you've only got Cancer, I've got full blown AIDS...it's not that bad what your going through." This is at least how I took the post and just wanted to let laddertipper know I felt the same way she did with the post from Onniegrapples. Remember Onniegrapples: Just because you might not agree with someone or something somebody's post there is a little thing called tact!


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