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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:23 pm 
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I'm new here as a poster, but lurked for many years and trust the information on this site more then most/all the others out there which promote use/harm reduction or whatever they want to call it, but ultimately not quitting as the end result.

Anyway I can't seem to find much on this topic and and fairly knowledgeable in opiates, sub, detox, and the info out there or at least I believe so. So asides from the COWS and feeling what your body is telling you does anyone know for sure medically or have personal experience trying both methods in the past of either tapering your DOC for a day or 2 and then jumping on Sub or just using up all of your DOC as fast as possible and getting on Sub sooner and which has the easiest transition where the sweats and other issues aren't so bad and make work bearable if not fun or normal? I sit in an office all day and focus on them, but want to make the switch as smooth as possible for the 10th time probably, but have been told my many and notice the same with my body that tooting D the wd doesn't seem to kick in or make itself noticeable for a while and that even when it does its not the same as opana or other pills and tends to send them into percipatated.

Basically I'm need to feel normal enough by Wed night for a 5 day fam. vacation and want to be on sub for it and a few weeks or as long as I need to taper off to nothing instead of playing the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off game, but I have to interact with people and make sure stuff is working in the office up until this point and induce before then and normally I end up calling off that 1st day because of the stomach issues and also get hot/cold flashes all day and usually takes 3 days to get normal/happy etc on sub, but have had it happen in a day just not sure what I did different then.

Here it is Monday and I have maybe 10-15 norc and .2 of d which would make tue go by fine at work, but fear wed would be hell and thought maybe if I eat the v's tom and switch wed it'd be easier or if I should just switch tue which I have the will power to do, but I just don't want to switch/induce and feel crappy otherwise i may end up failing that day.

And have yet to really see or hear if its better to taper the DOC quickly over a day or 2 then induce or just get it over with and enjoy your last day and do your normal dose then switch and if it is smoother one way or the other or if it is pretty much the same as long as you rate properly on the COWS scale???

Just seems like w D I can't tell and had a 3 day weekend of it after tapering to 15 V's a day prior.

Sorry if this is long or goes in circles I've had to come back to it a few times and having a hard time explaining it and wanted to make sure I covered it all as I may not be able to respond for a while but don't have long to decide...

Thanks for any help or insight you can provide.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:33 pm 
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First of all I want to APOLOGIZE if Im 'way off here.

but you say you've done this "ten times probably" and that you want to be on "for a five day fam vacation and a few weeks then down to nothing"

So, do you just use sub when you tired of your drug of choice?? Is that what you mean by "two weeks on and two weeks off"

If so, it seems like "doing it ten times" has probably given you more experience than most people here.

Ive only inducted once.
And Ive been out of my suboxone twice, for a week but I didnt 'take' anything else.

I would suggest when your tired of the roller coaster, to look into some long term treatment. I mean obviosly your plan isnt working if your on your 11th try.

Im not trying to be mean. Im just being honest.

AND if Im way off, I do apologize. If you want to re-induct for try number 11 and really 'give it your all" than Im here for you dude!!!!!!!

Please let me know, becuz I dont want to look up links for you and give you an inspiring essay if your not really interested in being drug free.

In either situation, I do wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide
Peace be with you :wink:

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hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:46 pm 
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I honestly dont think it matters either way when it comes to getting on Sub as long as you're in enough withdrawals. Use the Cows scale to be sure if you're not.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:03 am 
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This one is finally for the long haul, years ago I would use it to jump off when I got sick of the hassle or needed to get things back on track and never wanted to let the addiction fully own me even though looking at it it does there is no denying that or I wouldn't have to even take sub or done to take a break. It all stemmed from a medical condition and surgeries, but they should be fine now and the rx's are just a crutch that I don't need for a shoulder that I don't play ball with or use for much where it gets that bad.

When I get back from vacation I'll be making an appointment to make it official in my head and have the Dr. place picked out, but prior to that there has been indecision hence the on off phases and trying to jump to quickly and cracking on Fridays since I don't drink due to allergic reactions that was my excuse to have some fun, but I notice it starting to affect friendships and work with getting sick, running late, missing events, etc... Once it gets there then enough is enough

Oddly I've been anticipating getting on sub as I remember how much better life gets and have been waiting for the right time and also to make sure I had enough to hold me over for till a Dr. appointment.

I understand your concern and not wanting to waste time as most of us in the cycle of addiction don't listen and do what we want anyway, but I've been waiting and planning to do it during summer so I can force myself out of the house more and if I can't do a short taper then I guess a 1-2 year with a long taper if needed is still better then the circle of hell and I can accept that now and realize it has to be easier to do a long taper when life is on track and loose ends tied up.


Now back to my question/curiosity, I've always had mixed results when inducing mainly with hot/cold and then feeling cold all day, stomach issues (which i found out only happens if I try to stay to 1-2mg a day, more covers it), and other random w/d feelings when inducing and other times I've felt like normal or like superman that same hour/day. And have been curios if it make a difference tapering quickly for a day or 2 off the DOC (30% min a day) then inducing or just doing ur last dose before bed as normal and inducing in the AM when it feels time? Have yet to find anything about this and hard to search for since most things turn up sub tapers.

In response the the COWS chart it has helped/worked in the past, but seems like it needs a handicap for those on adderall for adhd due to many of the side effects being the same as items on the rating scale...

I have learned to lower my dose on induction days or side effects are worse after switching.

Thanks for reading or any research/knowledge you can provide on the topic.

As of now I'm holding out and hopefully will induce shortly at work if I can get an hour with the door closed if not maybe a 20% dose to get the servers back online and try it tonight, thinking I'm gonna to figure out that hour even if its in the bathroom just to make sure I don't get PW and just get it going before an excuse pops up to wait till after vacation.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:41 am 
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I guess I'm not sure I'm understanding. There's no getting around the withdrawals one needs to be in before inducing onto suboxone. You just have to grin and bear it before the induction and like sodone said, use the COWS.

Do you plan on staying on sub or am I understanding that you want to taper off of it right away as well? Maybe you could clarify further. I'm on my way out soon, so maybe I'm just rushing and am misunderstanding you.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:16 am 
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Im glad to hear your 'in it to win it' so to say.

From what I can tell you want to be on suboxone this time "long term" I think you stated a year or two and taper from there?

obviously , thats a better laid plan than the 'back and forth' stuff. lol


and I know you already know this, but as far as I can tell as long as your in some moderate w/d you should be okay as far as precipitated w/d goes.

heres a few links that have inductions AND precipitated w/d ,,,, so maybe you can learn from these stories what not to do, or at least how to deal with it, IF it does happen

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5 ... +withdrawl


http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3 ... ated+w%2Fd


I wasnt able to taper until the very end. And even then Im not sure you could call it a 'taper'
that is of course the reason I needed to be on sub. I could never 'save' ANYTHING !!!! LOL

So I'd say do whatever works for you, make sure and tell yourself this is" it"
thats the ONE thing that helped me the last few days of abusing pain meds. I remember taking the last few like it was yesterday, even though its been almost 14 months. I looked at them in my hand, and told them they weren't going to ruin my life or steal my son's mommy any more. I was gonna be done with it.

I know I probably havent been that much help. But I do hope you can get thru this, and that you can find a good doctor and find whatever 'recovery' plan works for YOU. We are all very different just like our addictions, so if you find what works for you, stick with it my friend.

Good luck
let us know how your doing :)

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:54 am 
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Thanks for the encouragement hopefully this is it, I think I've come further since this is the 1st time I was able to induce while still have a few pain killers in my pocket and not take them and prolong it further, out of the other 10 times I stated 8\9 were just "breaks" and planned as that, the 1st time was a real attempt and made it 9 months then changes happened in life and decided to intentionally let the monkey back on the shoulder for shooot 3 years now...

I've been against the idea of long term, but the more and more I read and know of myself it seems like a long term taper does work well and should be my plan or it'll be a mess of a weekend reward and back in full swing in no time otherwise. Thanks and I'm sure I'll be around after my mini trip. Induction went fine minus being at work and a huge wave of something making me pretty much sleep under my desk and close the office door for a bit or I was going to pass maybe nod out.

Guess I did get my tolerance nice and low, but subs will increase it but for the better hopefully.


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