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 Post subject: My Belief
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Hatred and anger? Are you serious? Nobody has more compassion for addicts than I do. I AM an addict. How could I not. I just love them enough to tell them the truth, not just something to make them and myself feel better. If you're waiting around for the perfect time, the perfect taper method, etc. or until I "get my life together," you'll be on Sub for the REST of your life. I read this stuff every day, and so do you.

Look, if you feel you need to be on Suboxone maintenance for 1, 5, 10 years, that's your business. This poster was interested in a way to taper OFF Sub. That's why this thread is called "Stopping Suboxone." If he's really serious, I would recommend he get his advise from someone who has tapered and stayed off for more than 1 year. Not from someone who is still taking it. No offense, I just think actual experience is more valuable than an opinion.

I never said your life has no value. I simply know that my life today is significantly better than a year ago when I had to get up every day and take a drug in order to function. My life is better in every way, I'm grateful for that, and I have both the right AND the responsibility to share that experience with others. You, in turn, have the right to your own beliefs. But frankly, I fail to understand why you keep sharing them in a section for people who want to stop Suboxone.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Sounds right.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Did you hit "new topic" instead of "post reply" in this thread http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6990 ?

Also when I complete my taper and jump I hope I am more at peace with my time on sub. It allowed me to fix my life, not a sorry excuse for living, that's why I got on sub in the first place. I was a sorry excuse for living when i was abusing drugs, destroying everything in my life- suboxone is much different.


-Glen


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Yes, I did glen bee. Wooops. Who says drugs don't cause permanent mental impairment. lol I was responding to goinstrong on the "Trying To Taper With This Method" thread. Oh well.

By the way, I'm glad that Sub helped you. I'm not on an anti-Sub crusade. However my taper, especially towards the end and for a while after, was excrutiating. I hope your experience is better. But if it's like mine was, you may feel a little different about the drug afterwards. I was a lot more grateful before that. Best of luck to you.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:28 pm 
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I hear you but if it was easy, what incentive would we have to not start using drugs again?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:28 pm 
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Golden1-to answer your question, I reply to posts in the "stopping suboxone" thread, because I like to offer my support to everybody. Regardless of their choice to be on suboxone or not.

To everyone-I think that I have a difficult time understanding how someone, and I do mean anyone, goes from feeling like suboxone had a huge part in saving their life, to feeling completely different about it, all because of a difficult withdrawal experience. When and if I do decide to taper off of suboxone, I hope that I can remain just as grateful as I am today towards it. Suboxone has allowed me so many more opportunities with my life, then I had ever thought I would be allowed. I was given a second chance to be a great mother to my son. I was given the chance to be a good daughter, sister, aunt, and neice. I can make plans and keep them. Not cancel because I'm sick from withdrawals, or have to go get more pills. I have so much more money now. I have so much more TIME now. For the people and things that actually matter in life. I am a person who really does try hard to see both sides. I completely support everyone, no matter what their choice is regarding suboxone. It can't be easy to come off of, and I love to hear success stories. Romeo had posted at one time that he thinks it's part of the withdrawal process from suboxone. I think I agree, though I can't be sure since I myself have not come off of it truly wish everyone the best experience possible in their road to recovery.

I hope you all have a great night, I know I will!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:43 pm 
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I guess I am not so grateful to subs. It was better than an Oxy C W/D - but so is dying. I reviewed the materials new sub doctors are taught and the induction information which insures a high dose usage and enough time for addiction to a new drug. The option of low dose/short term is essentially not an option. So I am not too grateful about that not being an option. Of course people can always do their own thing -- essentially not following the doctor's orders - but when on is in W/D for some time it is hardly the time to be demanding something not offered. It is the time to follow orders and hope to get out of W/D asap. So all seems to be going as planned. One ends up with 16mg for 2 months and, as with many things, all is better now.
But that is not the best outcome for a lot of people and they later end up with a taper seeming way too hard. Way too hard.

Who loves this? Drug makers. Doctors who do not want to work too hard? Buprenorphine can be a big help. It needs to be used in the very best way--- tailored to the needs of the patient, not the needs of the doctor. I calculate the money at
$30,000 for 3-5 year use. $1,000 for short term detox. By the way-- the humble detox center in our town here finally had one tool to help --Suboxone. Some government people made a visit and stopped the use. Better have money and insurance or both to get help. Where again is "do no harm"? Money driven medicine is, sick.


S


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:07 pm 
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ALL medicines, are money driven.......
why do you think ALL those ads are on tv????

its NOT cheap to advertise like that, you know. ALL pharma companies, are in it for the money. Ever watch that movie "extreme measures" about the guy who tries to develop new drugs to cure his kids' illness????
its BASED on a true story. but I bet you at least one part that is true, is when the pharma co flew in on there $500,000 PrIVATE jet, to 'see' what they were up too. then right away, bought the patent.

thats how it goes. NO matter WHAT the drug is.
my 74 yr old grandmother is on a whole host of meds. I bet half of them she doesnt even need. shes relatively healthy.
excersises at the pool four days a week for two hours.

And, this will never end. these are the same people who pay millions of dollars to convince voters we dont need socialized healthcare. I dont know WHAT the answer is there. I do know ONE THING>
its not fair that my grandmother's neighbors DOG has health coverage, yet I DO NOT.
or my husband.
and we both work, our asses off.

didnt mean to get on my soap box. but that last line really stood out to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Why are we the only industrialized country not to have a health care system? We maintain about the worst piece of shit system possible so a few people can make a fortune. What you say about your grandmother is probably true -- my Mom is i a nursing home now, and her sister. She is 96-- and doing pretty well - after we got rid of half the medications some
"doctor" there had prescribed.

We hired and independent doctor to examine the drugs taken. He eliminated over half from the daily medications they both were given. My aunt woke up during the day and plans to send her to their "dementia unit" were scrapped, and in a few weeks she was able to travel. My Mom is much much better and walks outside every day and no particular medical problems.

There is money to be made in just doping these poor people up. The government pays the doctors and drug companies for this "service" and mostly it makes people sleepy and quiet so the understaffed money making joint can continue to function. The more they are "for profit"--expect the care to be worse. I worked for the state of MD for some years checking on these places so I do know first hand.

France is a nice place to practice medicine. You can be quite comfortable, and work reasonable hours. But you will not be a millionaire -- but why should you be. Medicine is one very poor way to get rich- but it is done ---here in the land of idiots with no socialized medicine. But they are all "free" - free to be sick and die.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:39 pm 
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I'm pretty tolerant of how many ex-Subbers have a healthy dislike Suboxone. I guess I've been there myself in the past. But not just that. It's pretty fucking normal for people who quit a drug of addiction / dependence to make themselves dislike the drug they were taking.

It's kinda like reformed smokers. Nobody hates cigarettes more than reformed smokers. It's not so much that we hate cigarettes, all they stand for and those that smoke them. It's more that choosing to hate the act of smoking greatly assists one to stay off cigarettes. It's a hugely motivating factor to stop someone falling back into taking the drug. I often walk past smokers and think how disgusting a habit it was. I wouldn't think that if I never smoked myself. It's just thinking that helps prevent allowing myself to fall back into that life.

Same goes for crack, heroin, meth ... People who've managed to kick it consciously choose to forget the benefits of taking the drug and focus on the negatives. It's almost necessary to prevent relapse.

I think getting off Sub is no different. Once a person kicks a drug, their number one priority is to prevent themselves returning back into that life. And if it means focusing on the drugs negatives and neglecting its benefits, then I can understand that completely.

Where it gets a bit disrespectful is when people choose to rub in their beliefs to others who have chosen to remain on their drug. It doesn't respect the reality that other people's addiction history is different. There are those people whose addictions were so bad and so prolonged, that their brain circuitry has changed to the point it's literally impossible to live without a crutch like Suboxone. There's those who have (as they say in AA) "grave mental and emotional disorders" that are resistant to treatment, who lose insight completely in an episode of depression or psychosis to the point where relapse into addiction is near inevitable. Then there's those who require buprenorphine for pain management and addiction dual-diagnoses. For these people, life-long maintenance is really the only option. Do they really need a constant reminder that their need for Suboxone resigns themselves to some B-grade life?

I guess it's about tolerance. Golden does however have a point that I think suboxforum moderators and members should have some understanding of anti-Sub beliefs on a forum dedicated to "Stopping Suboxone". Such attitudes are almost required to help motivate people to continue their taper, push through the withdrawals and prevent relapse.


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