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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:42 am 
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A few months ago I went to my bi-monthly appointment, (Medicaid in my state will only cover a two week supply at a time), and was speaking with the doctor assigned to me for the appointment, (the office hires several outside doctors to come in and see patients so even though my prescription always says it's from one particular doctor I never actually see him but I do see a different doctor every time I'm there), and he was asking me how I was doing and of course I was, and am, doing pretty well with a good job, good relationships, etc. and, of course, I credit the Suboxone as being a big part of helping to make and keep everything going so well, along with the years of counseling I've had and support groups, learning, and other tools to help keep my life going how I want and need it to be going. Well, he tells me that if my life is going as great as I'm making it out to be then it's time to start thinking about tapering off the Suboxone; that right now it's doing me more harm than good by acting as a crutch and that I need to kick the crutch out and start walking without it. He said that the goal is to get people off of it completely because no one stays on it forever. I've been on it for about seven years now and before I had relapsed once after having been forced to taper and quit and another time I had to go back up to 4mgs after having been dropped to 2mgs due to cravings and withdrawal symptoms, but, since I've been on the 4mg a day, (2mg in the morning and 2mg in the late afternoons), I've felt like my life is right where I want it to be. I resent my lifesaving medication being referred to a 'crutch'. Do they call heart medication for someone with heart disease or insulin for a diabetic a 'crutch'? Of course not! Gggrrr!!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:45 am 
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There is a change in recovery today ,I believe. These old tried ways that for most if not many people with Substance Abuse disorders are being shown to be of little effect. Opiate abuse now has a effective medicaton. It will take years if not another decade for the world to catch up. Would we all be better off Drug free? For me the answer is no. Your other thead Skayda on trad 12 step recovery attiudes is painful for me to read. Ive seen many of these problems with my own eyes, heard the cries of many a newcomer ourside these meetings. Made to feel shameful Myself just for being on the med. It isnt a debatable subject with most of them, not the ones that really have worked the progam. Clean time is what its all about ,but a relapes can be forgiven too, as loug as your not on That Stuff. Reading here , and Dr.Junigs blog, the many members who are doing well and reinventing themselves to a better life , only goes to show just how great recovery can be, and taken correctly how well this treatment is. You ve done what we all must do, and that is to find the right people in your life who support you in Your recovery. I know today that i cant change my old friends minds at NA . Ive tried. ... The new recovery movement in this country has room for us. Check out the DR Will White papers blog. good stuff there too. crutch?...compared to what? Dieing......... razor57


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:20 pm 
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Skayda,

Print out some articles about it from the Talk Zone section. Make sure Dr. Junig's name is shown on the paper. If you have trouble finding one let me know and I'll start digging for you.

His opinion is crystal clear. If an addict stops Suboxone treatment before they are ready, a relapse is almost guaranteed. See if you can get your doctor to read it. If that fails, make him promise to leave your spot open in case you relapse. There is the possibility that you can succeed on the taper if forced. You know as well as I that's it's mostly mental, not the physical that makes us seek relief.

Sorry to hear that. My heart goes out to you.

r

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:40 pm 
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I haven't even fully read your post because I don't have a lot of time right now, but print this article out and give it to the naysayers!!

http://store.samhsa.gov/shin/content//S ... 6-4938.pdf

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:45 pm 
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razor55 wrote:
There is a change in recovery today ,I believe. These old tried ways that for most if not many people with Substance Abuse disorders are being shown to be of little effect. Opiate abuse now has a effective medicaton. It will take years if not another decade for the world to catch up. Would we all be better off Drug free? For me the answer is no. Your other thead Skayda on trad 12 step recovery attiudes is painful for me to read. Ive seen many of these problems with my own eyes, heard the cries of many a newcomer ourside these meetings. Made to feel shameful Myself just for being on the med. It isnt a debatable subject with most of them, not the ones that really have worked the progam. Clean time is what its all about ,but a relapes can be forgiven too, as loug as your not on That Stuff. Reading here , and Dr.Junigs blog, the many members who are doing well and reinventing themselves to a better life , only goes to show just how great recovery can be, and taken correctly how well this treatment is. You ve done what we all must do, and that is to find the right people in your life who support you in Your recovery. I know today that i cant change my old friends minds at NA . Ive tried. ... The new recovery movement in this country has room for us. Check out the DR Will White papers blog. good stuff there too. crutch?...compared to what? Dieing......... razor57


This article references William White!

http://store.samhsa.gov/shin/content//S ... 6-4938.pdf

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:09 pm 
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arrrggghhh... tell him to go f@#$ himself.

Sorry--- was that out of line?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:23 pm 
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suboxdoc wrote:
arrrggghhh... tell him to go f@#$ himself.

Sorry--- was that out of line?


Nope!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:55 pm 
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I second that Nope!!!! You rock doc. Good artical Amy, there is great info on SAMs site....


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:58 pm 
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My Dr is pretty much the same way and I know that eventually I will face the day that I'll have to switch doctors. My Dr says that I can't stay on sub forever and the end goal is to get completely off it. Sometimes u just can't change their minds and if u can't, find one that will. I know that's easier said than done but we have to do what's best for us and if my Dr tries to force me off, I'll have no choice but to go through the drawn out process of finding another. It sucks that more doctors aren't like Dr J. I get huge anxiety just thinking about my future at my clinic. This is a problem a lot of us are facing and it's a shame too.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:52 pm 
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Yes my doc tells me the same thing. " You don't want to be on this the rest of your life" -yada yada.
I get so tired of hearing this. but this one statement seems to work. I just tell him, after he suggests I drop to a lower dose, I tell him. That " I feel like I am going to relapse" . I usually go back to the amount I was taking and he usually doesn't ask me to drop until another 6 months. I know that this kinda sux and i should go find another doc. But this one is the cheapest I can find and least amount of red tape. However saying you might relapse seems to do the trick.

Just what has worked for me in the past.

I just don't see why they have to push us off a med that is working so well. Especially if you are on a relatively low dose.

Anyways... good luck.!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:30 pm 
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I write in another post about 'TIP 43' from SAMHSA about medication assisted treatment-- which discusses the need to see opioid dependence as a long-term condition that often deserves lifetime maintenance. Here is the link: http://store.samhsa.gov/shin/content//SMA12-4214/SMA12-4214.pdf


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:05 pm 
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I'm going through this right now. I've been on bup for about 6.5 years. When I was first put on it the doctor told me I should be on for the rest of my life. I thought he was nuts. Well actually he was but that's a whole other story. He has the right idea though and I've come to agree with him. While I really don't think I will be on for life, I'm not at all ruling it out. Sadly the doctor I have had since then, for about 6.4 years, again wants me to taper. A year ago he was fine with me staying at 2 mg. then about six months ago said I was like Lioness and his blanket - a reference to Charlie Brown where lioness has his suboxone er I mean his blanket wherever he goes. Two months ago he too said I'm using sub as a crutch and was again back to relying on drugs for how I feel. He said I'm only 10% blocked at 2 mg anyhow - yeah, right, NOT, Add in The fact I'm paying way more than I should be (nearly $500 every three months for my 15-25 min. Appointment) it's time I find a new Doc as well. Hopefully I have an awesome doc who has agreed to give me one of the next slots that open up. I have my fingers crossed.

Could I get off of bup? Yeah I guess I could try. The thing is, my risk will go up from where it currently is. I have not had even a close call in 6.5 years. I had Vicodin twice for wisdom teeth extraction with no problems. Still my risk of relapse will be higher off bup. Is it worth the risk? Not for me, no. My life. Is totally back to "normal" and everyone trusts me again. Why should I risk that? Add in that its very hard to relapse without breaking the law and its an easy decision. If I could try it and relapse without really bad things happening I'd likely try. There is just no safe way to relapse. So stop, relapse, risk arrest, lose my job (again) lose the trust of family and friends (again) perhaps lose my life?

No thanks, I'll stick with "the cruch"


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