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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:04 pm 
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Ok so ive been taking subs since sat night (2-3 8mg strips a day) its now monday. I took 1 1/2 8mg strips today abd then around 6 fucked up abd got high. Only two bags ( i usually do 7-14 a day give it take depending on cash) if i take my sub tomo will i get sick and go into precipitated withdrawal? ! Im so mad at myself abd so scared idk what to do! PLEASE IF YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS OUR KNOW THE ANSWER PLEASE RESPOND ASAP!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:41 am 
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Stop taking the heroin. You need to delete the phone number of your dealer, move away, go into detox, tell him you're a cop, whatever it takes to get you to stop obtaining the H. In patient detox may be the only solution. Try to find one that uses Suboxone as an aid.

No one here has an answer to someone who keeps using heroin and then takes Suboxone. We are not chemists. You say you are ready to get into recovery but your behavior doesn't show it. I'm not trying to be harsh but you keep asking for help while you have bags of H in your pocket. It's time to make a stand and pick one or the other.

Maybe even commit yourself for the 72 hours to get the H out of your system and then be able to induce properly. Time for drastic measures.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:19 pm 
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I agree with rule 100%. If u wanna get urself together and just take suboxone, ur gonna have to stop using anything else. Ur basically just shooting urself in the foot over and over again by taking sub, then another opiate. In order to get the full benefits of sub, ur gonna have to give it a true real chance to work. I've said time and time again that it took me a good month or so for the sub to adjust for me. Ur gonna have to be willing to stop using anything else. Using both isn't gonna produce any positive effects for u at all.

As for ur question about the pw because of using the heroin, I think you'll be ok to proceed with ur next dose of sub. Now that's just my opinion, others could answer that better but I think you'll be ok. Once I started sub, I have never used anything else again, so I have zero experience with that question. But since u took the sub first before the heroin, I'm assuming it'll be ok.

I hope u finally get to the point of just letting sub do it's job, so that u can see the world more clearly. Sub has truly been the most awesome blessing in my life that's gave me peace from active addiction. It's so wonderful to not worry about using anymore. That can happen to u also, trust me it's so worth it.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:46 am 
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I think PW depends on the person and the situation. Yes, the other posters are right, you have to pick a road and get on it. It's good you are here, that you are thinking about cleaning yourself up. i had many many MANY times where I tried and failed to stop....I'm sure most of the people here have been through the same. If it were easy to walk away from opiates, none of us would be here. God, I still wish I could spend the rest of my days high...We all know how great it feels..but, the party has to stop some time.

As for PWs, I think it depends on how long you've used, what you are using, and your metabolism. I was in week two of methadone WD, week TWO (that's a long fucking wait) and things got pretty bad when I tried to take subs. More I took, the worse I felt. I was too much of a wimp to ride it out, I lasted maybe 24 hours before I gobbled up every opiate I had on hand. Then, I had to go on a shorter acting opiate for a few weeks before I could induct again. When I did induct, I only waited 24 hrs and was absolutely fine, no PW. Funny, but I instinctively knew it would be ok...did my induction at work, that's how sure I was. So I didn't go by the COWS scale....BUT I believe most people do and should go by the scale. You should wait as long as possible, put up with the discomfort for as long as you can. Say you have the flu, take a few days off from work, park your butt on the sofa, watch Walking Dead reruns, whatever...I watched drug movies, I think I watched Requiem for a Dream 5 times...but I don't recommend that.

I think for you its just a matter of making up your mind whether or not it's really time to get off the roller coaster. A lot of people say subs is a blessing..I don't really feel that way myself, but it's the better alternative at this point. If I had continued to stay on heroin, I'd be dead now for sure, but I used subs to get off methadone, so my frame of mind was a little different. Either way, you have to give up being high, that's the hard part. Good luck to you!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:17 am 
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Hi Bored2Much.

I would like to answer your question with my opinion which is that buprenorphine should not be taken until 24 hours after your last use of heroin (short acting opiate.) If it's laced with a longer acting opiate like methadone, then you would need to go closer to 36 hours to avoid having precipitated withdrawal.

You need to go by the COWS scale and be in mild heroin withdrawal before you take Suboxone or Subutex again now. I wondered how buprenorphine would factor in too when I did something very similar to what you just did a week or so ago. I waited 24 hours and resumed my Subutex and did not go into precipitated withdrawal. Here is a link to the COWS scale:
http://www.naabt.org/documents/COWS_induction_flow_sheet.pdf

To be on the safe side, I have read that no matter what you do, you should always do a 'test dose' first. I always take about 1mg at first. Wait and see what happens. If you go into precipitated withdrawal it would be better to only have 1mg in your system as opposed to a full 8mg pill or something. If all goes well with the 1mg, then begin your induction process again and get back on the wagon.

I have not been on Subutex long term yet. Only short term for detox. About 8 times in just six months though! Today marks the 13th day that I have been on it and I am REALLY struggling with committing to stay on it even though I know how unlikely it makes a relapse to be. It has many benefits for sure but I am still terrified to allow myself to become physically dependent upon it. I could go the abstinence route starting right now. I just detoxed off heroin with Subutex. I went 12 years without heroin until I relapsed 6 months ago. Why can't I just do THAT? Why do I relapse every single damn time I get clean with Subutex? Why is my mind and my willpower not enough? Believe me, I struggle. I know you do too.

I truly hope this helps you right now.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:36 pm 
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It's not enough because addiction changes your brain. The changes make it easier for you to remember triggers and then relapse. The inhibitory part of your brain, the part that says NO, is also changed to make it harder for you to access it. The changes to your brain are permanent. That is why you will always be susceptible to relapse. You can choose to blame your "lack of will power" or acknowledge that certain parts of your addiction are not in your control. Once you acknowledge that your addiction involves more than just your attempts to quit you are more likely to see the sense and benefit of a maintenance medication. Taking suboxone is not going to make you somehow more of an addict!

Taking suboxone is going to put your addiction in remission. Don't have the destructive view that if you're not struggling you're not fighting your addiction. It is OK to rely on this medication in order to gain stability and improve your life! You can find the lowest amount that stops your cravings, but also doesn't cause you too many annoying side effects. There are many people who can take a relatively low daily dose like 1.5 mg that is completely effective for them. However, if you need more it's not the end of the world! There is always time to taper down as well as taper off if you are at a point in your life where you don't need sub any more.

What do you think?

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:12 pm 
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Just reading not much to add but Amys post helped me. Struggling with if I gonna stay on or wean. Only just been on subs a week.

Freaking brain. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:35 pm 
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Im actually surprised the heroin worked..kind of concerns me as I have a few heroin addicts I met in rehab that r newly on suboxone..Im in agreement with everyones reply, the withdrawal should really be the least concern..I've known many who took suboxone within 12 hrs of heroin use, they felt slightly uncomfortable but not even close to wds we all know well, then they were fine after second dose, if u can stand to wait, wait as long as u can. Im curious as to what triggered the relapse? Relapse is something most of us face at some point, the importance lies in the choice u make following, the sooner u go back to clean the better ur chances of staying that way. We have to continuously remind ourselves why we want to stay clean..I love drugs and alcohol but I did not love my life when I used them..

I have known people who will go back and forth between opiates and sub, just taking the sub when out of their drugs..but usually people dont do that for long as they find they require much higher doses of opiates than before. This defeats the purpose of sub anyway..it is a miraculous drug for addiction if u let it be. My advice would be to eliminate all people associated with heroin..true friends will understand and not bring u around it..stay on the sub..stay connected with recovering addicts, I find my "higher power" lies in those around me who struggle with sobriety as well, we support eachother and in turn u will support urself..good luck, we are all here for u:)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:27 am 
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This was a very old post, from August I believe.


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