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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Hi all!
Ill keep this as short as possible. For the past 2 weeks I'm taking 4mg film strips a day total under tongue - Between 1 3/4 strips to 2 1/2 film strips per day - Each film is 2mg. I have been pretty stable for the most part. I have to take them 2 or 3 times a day they dont last the entire 24 hrs.

I 've also just recently been drinking 1/2 to 1 glass of wine at night before bed , but decided to quit last night. BTW, Only drank wine for the past one month...nice bottle was a gift. NOT a drinker at all!
I decided to quite the wine last night & for the 1st time I started to go into bad WD...Dry mouth. SEVERE ANXIETY almost paranoid, heart racing, burning stomach, restless etc...
WOULD QUITTING THE WINE DO THIS? its the only thing that has changed.

Also is the severe PANIC & anxiety normal? almost to paranoia? I never had this level of anxiety before the sub. I had quite 3 times during the last 5 years and never had this panic before. My sub DR has a bad bedside manner & acts like I'm making too much out of the panic. Its terrifying! - she doesn't charge me for the sub or huge office visits so I give her that but she is not the nicest.

LAST QUESTION: I only see tapering for pills or water, is there any links to film strip taper? or is film not the best?
I am searching but cant find it yet.

I take nothing else. This is my 1st addiction in my life ( aside from teenage smoking). I had 3 kidney stones 5 yrs ago and couldn't stop taking the vicodin. I was taking 7.5 or 10/325 norcos gradually got up to about 25 or more a day (I know stupid) The DR just kept giving them to me. He is in jail now. Same story nothing new. I'm 34 YO woman. I had a physical and was told my liver is normal - thank god- Healthy except for this problem. Although I suspect the opiates are giving me anemia.

I'm desperate to get off SUB I have read so many horror stories about it that I could be permanently damaged by it... Is that why I get panic? I really want not be a slave to sub too. I'm alone with no friends who know about this issue, Im too ashamed I let this happen to myself, so I cant tell or ask them. Im scared.

I need to find an out patient group or something for support. I am in Los Angeles if anyone knows.

I really appreciate any newbie advice! :)


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:48 pm 
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I don't know about any of the alcohol questions but wanted to reply to one thing. Are the suboxone horror stories you see comments on YouTube? The reason I'm curious is I too would go on videos of people's withdrawal and see all these comments from people talking about suboxone permanently damaging your brain and you'll be depressed for 10 years and paws hits you hard after 6 months and nobody makes it off alive. After doing research I found out these commenters are all the same people on the same IP address and they change their stories and facts to match whichever video they're on. People quit suboxone all the time and are happy and healthy and whole. People here have quit suboxone and stuck around for 4 years after helping people out. I don't know your reasons to get off but if you need to just understand it is very doable.. The biggest problem for most people isn't that they have lifelong brain damage it's the cravings that send us back. Good luck to you, I hope someone will come by and answer your other questions.


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:10 pm 
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Hi, Thanks for taking the time to tell me that. It puts my mind at ease. YES many of them were on youtube. Some were on the forums or various websites but I decided to search out success stories too just now, and it has helped balance out my fear.
I want off because it is a strong expensive drug. and the longer you are on it the harder it is to get off just like with Norcos or any opiate. I want to be free from all drugs like I have been most of my life. I want that back! I had no idea what I was in for with opiates and I wish I never met those little evil pills!

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:32 pm 
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Freddie, that too is not true - the longer you are on Bup the harder it is to get off. NOT TRUE! Did you get that from YouTube, or similar as well? There is no good evidence to show its any harder to stop Bup after 6 years than after 6 months. In fact in some ways it may be easier.

Second, I can totally appreciate you wanting to be off all drugs, just as others here I am sure can. The problem is, that might not be possible. It's not impossible either. However getting off of and clear of Bup and opiates is the easy part. It really is! It's staying clean that is the hard part.

What is your plan to stay sober after stopping Bup? Do you have a plan? If not, the stats are huge for relapse. It can be done but you have to have a plan for recovery. Stopping Bup is not the end, it's the start.

As far as using strips to taper, you most certainly can. In fact there is a film cutting guide you can get to show you how to cut the strips. Get it here: http://www.rxfilmcuttingguide.com


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:48 pm 
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I dont like that that guy is charging money for that guide. It seems sleazy to me. everyone wants to profit off addicts!
I will try to find a free version.

No i have no plan. I am looking for an outpatient place or some groups or something. I know about relapsing I have done it a few times. I have had the hell scared out of me by this panic attack so I doubt I will fall back again. I feel different now. I need to be healthy again.


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:23 pm 
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That "guy" is an addict himself and he came up with the guide to help himself. He worked hard on it, so why should he give it away for free? $10 is a damn good price for a tool that is so well thought out that you don't have to do any calculations for yourself. There aren't any available for free. His is the only one I've seen. He also tapered and stepped of sub with ease. Very few withdrawal symptoms and within days he felt great

It is always a good idea to have a recovery plan in place after you are off sub.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:43 pm 
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Ya I understand if he worked on it but it's too expensive I think for just a copy

I just went through weeks of trying to get help here in LA and found that not one suboxone DR will see me and help me unless I pay them $2000! Even if they accept my insurance they say OH NO WAIT, as soon as they hear the word SUBOXONE! Its a scam. Not to mention the meds themselves have no reason to be so expensive & not covered by insurance.
Its unethical for a DR to put us all over a barrel. Im very bitter about anyone trying to profit of us.
They don't care if we die , if we dont have a lot of money they dont want you to bother them!
Its really sad.


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:49 pm 
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donh...in reply to you asking me where I heard that the longer we are on sub the harder is to get off---I heard it here on these boards as well as Dr Drew said no one should be on it for more than 3 days.

I have heard it other places to online. It makes sense cause any opiate is harder and the WD are way worse the longer you are on it.

For some reason I have been on about 2mg for 2 weeks but all of a sudden that isn't working for me anymore. I have to take 3 or more to get stable.
Is this normal?
I dont want to take more. I am desperate to take less. I may just stick it out and see if I adjust after 5 days to the lower dose. Im hoping.

I have to move out of my house, it sold, in 30 or 45 days so I am really scared I cant get stable by then. I dont want to end up on the streets. I have to find an apt. Too much stress while trying to get healthy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:21 am 
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Hey Freddie,
Listen, Dr. Drew is full of shit! He is the host of a TV show, and he is just doing what he is told. Statistics show you are more likely to relapse if you are not on it for at least a year. Being clean is a lot harder than you think. It takes a lot of hard work. you can't just be on it for 3 days! IMO
About your trouble with finding a good Dr.? Why don't you call around to the Pharmacies and ask who gives the best deal. Where are you? In Los Angeles? Try getting out of the city and try more rural areas for help. You might have to drive a little farther but you might find it is a lot cheaper.


Last edited by happyg1961 on Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:16 am 
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Thank you.
My biggest problem right now though is I cant figure out why I cant get stable. I was taking 4 mg a day and all of a sudden Its not enough. why would I have heart racing, anxiety, and WD on 4mg when it was find before for the past 2 weeks
Please im scared.

im having bad problems right now.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:01 am 
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I take it you are getting these off of the street? Were the packages open? What does the date say on them? I am totally stumped on this one! I know you are freaking out right now about the price of a Dr.. You aren't taking any other opiates. Right? I will do some research and see what I can come up with that would cause this. Sorry about my comment about Dr. Drew but I don't trust any TV personality. There is always a hidden agenda behind them!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:07 pm 
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I was about to say that if you were stable on 2 or 4 mg of Bup per day for two weeks, there is absolutely no reason that you would all if a sudden go into withdrawls. That just would not happen. It would have to be due to something else. However Happy made a very astute observation here - did you obtain these on the street? If so and if not strips are not in a sealed package I'm betting they are fake. It would be top on my list of considerations.

As for the film cutting strip being too expensive or should be free, I'm like, are you kidding me? Is this what Obamah's increasing entitlement culture has brought us to? It's not enough that the government has to hand out free this, free that, free everything - now private individuals are supposed to as well? Really? Ten flipping bucks for something that can easily save someone hundreds is too much and should be free. Do you work for free? Do you provide services for free? If so, I have a lawn that needs mowing, a house that needs cleaning and some office work that needs filing.

Free? Wow!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Hey guys I'm really sorry and I really respect you all but this forum is supposed to be here to help people and I feel like lately we are belittling people more. If I were this person and read these comments back after I asked a question i would be off this forum in a heartbeat. Its obvious this person is very uninformed about suboxone and probably addiction in general and I think we should be offering our best advice and not throwing out political rants and digging in at them. Again I respect you all and I'm sorry I just couldn't not say anything..

OP- please do more research for getting on suboxone legally and stabilizing and really working on your recovery before trying to get off. Trust me I was where you are now. I was getting them off the streets for 4 years before I quit. I knew nothing about it, addiction or recovery. I was able to stay off for 6 months and I was working out, eating better, and I was extremely happy and energetic and motivated. I didn't do any research not did I work a recovery plan and here I am, now only a month off suboxone, doing it again. Please stick around and read through post and get advice that will help you eventually get off if that's what you want.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:11 pm 
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Quiet,
If you had read my last comment, you would have seen that I apologized for my comment about Dr. Drew, but my opinion about him still stands. And what he stands for!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:35 pm 
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Hey Little Freddie, I'm sorry that you're struggling right now feeling like you're not stable on your dose of 4 mg. One thing you might want to try is increasing the absorption of the suboxone. Have you been consistent with how you're taking your sub? One thing that some of our members have done is to swish listerine around in their mouths, swallow any spit that they can and then place the strip under the tongue. Dr. Junig suggests putting the sub strip on the tip of your tongue and then painting the inside of your mouth, cheeks, lips until the strip is completely dissolved. Then you can leave it in your mouth for 10 to 20 minutes to absorb. Does that method make sense to you? Try it and tell us how it goes!

I'm sorry if I was snippy about our member who made the RX Film Cutting Guide. He just happened to put a lot of work into it and it can be an extremely helpful tool to those who are trying to taper from sub. I've seen him lower the price when contacted and asked nicely too.

I'm of the opinion that you should find a suboxone doctor and stay on the drug for a while too. I don't think anyone was trying to be rude to you. They're just trying to keep you from going down a wrong path that will keep you in a cycle of relapse. I wish you good luck and feel free to ask more questions. :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:19 pm 
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Quiet, I'll agree with part of your point but just because someone is struggling does not mean they get to say anything they want to without having to stand behind it. Yes, addiction is a really crappy disease, but so is cancer, diabetes and heart disease. Just because someone suffers from any of these does not mean they should be given treatment, medication, or anything else for free. Doctors go through years and years of school and often graduate with huge, huge debt. Drug companies have to expend millions perhaps a billion or more getting a drug through the FDA and to market. I think it's beyond awesome that dr. j donates his time and funds this board. He is beyond great for doing that. However it's wrong to EXPECT him or anyone else to do so. That is his gift and should not be expected because he is a doctor. The same goes for a guy who took the time and has the talent to create the film cutting guide. To expect him to just give that away for free is wrong. It's his choice.

Someone asked a question about being able to use suboxone strips to taper. Not only did I answer but I provided a helpful resource to go along with it. Rather than saying "thank you" we are told it's not good enough - it should be free too. Really? Is that what today's entitlement society has come to? Either way, we are all responsible for our statements - suffering from addiction does not absolve us from that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:30 am 
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How are you looking for these dr? Internet searches? Cause the way those work are based off who pays the most, LA is a large city and I can't imagine there isn't an afford dr/ group recovery center. Usually the high priced ones are scams. There is always NA/aa which are free. Opiates also don't permanently damage your body, it's the Tylenol in opiate based pills or stuff they are cut with. Your brain and everything can fully heal. I just remembered this, the way I found my dr was I called the insurance company.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:09 pm 
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I'm not trying to be all contrary to you jjinda, but I want to talk a little bit about opiate addiction and the brain.

I think what you're referring to in terms of healing is that after stopping all opiates the extra opiate receptors created to keep up with your addiction eventually die off so that you can feel your own endorphins normally again. However, becoming addicted to opiates does change your brain in significant ways that any opiate addict will have to deal with for the rest of his/her life. Once the pleasure/reward pathway for opiates has been created by addiction, it is set for your lifetime. That is why even recovered addicts who have been off opiates for years and years are still susceptible to relapse.

For people who can logistically, financially and physically swing it, staying on your maintenance medication is a really good way of keeping yourself in recovery. If you don't, you just have to be vigilant about knowing what triggers you and you have to have ways to keep yourself accountable.

I think one of the saddest things I have to tell people who come to this forum is that there is just no going back to who you were before addiction. I see so many people say, "Things will be great once I get off bupe and my brain is functioning like it used to." It's kind of a pie-in-the-sky ideal though, unfortunately.

Back to this thread's original programming! :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:22 pm 
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Very well put Amy!
That reminds me, I better begin dosing for the day! lol
I am so glad I can come and talk about Suboxone to everyone without feeling the need to dose every 5 minutes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:23 pm 
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I agree with Amy that we don't magically go back to our old selves after we stop opiates. However, that doesn't mean you won't be just as happy if not happy as before. Also, just as energetic or whatever else. You can become happy/healthy/whole again but you absolutely will have to be vigilant and have some type of recovery thing going on always. Personally for me I believe the person I was before opiates was great, but the person I'm going to become now is going to be even better. He's gonna be happier, he's gonna love more, he's gonna be more energetic and most importantly he's gonna have his priorities together. My life before was all about me me me and that's what lead me to addiction. I was only thinking of me when I wanted to get high. This new guy will not be this way and he's also going to realize how short life is and enjoy every second of it. Amy's right though, don't sit around waiting for the old you, they're dead and gone and that's probably a good thing, look where they lead you.


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