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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:04 pm 
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I've been off Suboxone for six days now and I'm feeling alot better today then I felt from day 3 to 5. I was on it for the last 4 years and could not take the way I felt on it anymore!!! I did my taper down to 2mg and jumped last Sunday. The first 2 days were not bad at all but days 3 4 5 were really bad with hot and cold RSL but I did get sleep those nights about 5 hours each night with the help of Advil pm. The only thing that is bad for me is the no energy!!! I can take the rest but dragging ass all day really sucks seeing I work 7 days a week. Has anyone ever used 5 hour energy and dose it work?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:50 pm 
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anyone who can help me


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:21 am 
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Im glad your feeling better, thats great :wink:


Ive never tapered/stopped for more than 8 days.......due to cost/insurance type stuff, but I saw that nobody had posted. Im sorry.

BUT,,, I do know MANY, MANY people here say vitamin B12 helps a TON with energy. you can get it at GNC or any place like that. Thats probably better than an energy drink, since thats just mostly caffiene.(and sugar)

heres an inspiring story too

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5965

I hope I helped, sorry I didnt have more info for you

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:04 am 
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Thanks for the reply Amber. I'm going to check out some vitamins today at GNC. I just can't take being this tired all the time. Anyway thank you


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Sounds like pretty good news for you on day 6. You asked about the energy drink -- in my opinion that is a bad thing to drink right now. It is full of things you do not need - and it will be a false jittery energy - probably more like anxiety than good energy.

Can you share how many mg you were taking and how the taper went if you were tapering?

Best,

S


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Try eating healthy, drinking water...lots of water, taking vitamins, L-tyrosine (fairly expensive supplement from GNC but it helped me) and stay away from the energy shots. As Scruffy says, it will most likely do more harm than good. You must push thru the lows...there guna be there this early after jumping,unfortunately theres no way around them. A positive mindset will go far against the lows. Whenever a low hits you, just remember all the reasons YOU have decided to get clean. Things will start getting better now, slowly, but they will get better. Keep your chin up and DONT STOP FIGHTING!! YOU CAN DO THIS!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:54 pm 
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I used to drink about four energy drinks a day but as soon as I started my taper what I've noticed (I haven't jumped yet) the energy drinks gave me horrible anxiety and smoking did as well. I had to cut back on my caff. until my body actually got used to the dose I was tapering to. So I would say IMO stay away from them and use the vitamins and drink the water. I was so aggravated at myself because I was making it worse on myself after starting to drink them. It set me back a bit and I had a hard time. Congrats on coming off the subs! I am looking forward to when I can post about mine! Good luck and keep up the good work!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Thanks Scruffy,95,Seeking, I tryed 5 hour engery and what a big mistake. Day 7 was the worst for me yet!!!! I think the 5 hour kicked the RSL in so bad that day that I got no sleep at all that night!! I should have knew!!!! I thought I was going to feel hardly any of the WDs the way I was going but we all know that we have to pay for our actions in the long run lol !!!! It's day 8 for me now and today was another day of dragging ass!!!! I went to the store today after work and picked up this stuff called Restful Legs for the RSL and I got some B12 to try. I thank you people for all your replys and help. I don't have to many friends that I can talk to that know what it is to go through WDs. I try telling them and they will never understand how hard it really is!!! I just hope day 9 is a little bit better for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Hey ksr131313,

A couple of things I found to really help wd are to keep your mind busy and keep your body busy. Have you noticed that when you get immersed into something, your wd seems to dissipate greatly? I know it's not possible to keep yourself busy ALL the time, especially when you're trying to sleep!!

Clonidine, a blood pressure medication, is prescribed "off label" for opiate wd. It calms the Sympathetic Nervous System and helped ease my wd....it has a sedative effect too!! Clonidine (not Klonipn....those are two entirely different meds), is non habit forming too, I took it for months and months and quit taking it with no problems at all. You have to go to your doctor and get your BP checked first.

That "dragging ass" feeling you're having is likely to hang around for a bit. During your time on opiates, you basically taught your brain to stop producing its own natural opiates and you taught your brain to rely completely on external opiates. Now that you're not feeding it external opiates anymore, it doesn't know what the hell to do. It has to fire up its natural opiate production machine AND balance it with the rest of your brain.....it takes a little while.

I've found exercise (which releases natural opiates) helps a lot with wd. You may only be able to do light exercise, but I think the key is to push yourself a little bit.

I hope you get to feeling better soon, opiate wd SUCKS!!! :(

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:58 am 
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Romeo,

That last post is filled with good information - especially when one does not know what is coming. But many of us do know
the intolerable W/D of some full agonists like Oxy-C. In your experience with Sub W/D did anything like W/D from a full agonist ever rear its ugly head? Or not.

Would be nice to know that could or would not happen-- if that is the case.

S


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:10 am 
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I jumped from a decently high dose of Suboxone, so my wd was comparable to that of a full agonist. It wasn't nearly as intense as wd from a full agonist, but Suboxone wd was a hell of a lot longer.

Comparing jumping off a high dose of Suboxone to quitting a full agonist is kinda like asking someone if they'd rather get hit by a Mack truck doing 80mph or to get hit by a Pinto doing 55mph.......either way, it's gonna fucking hurt!!!!

You're best bet, if you can do it, is to taper off of Suboxone. Tapering pretty much guarantees you'll have an easier wd. Jumping off at the end of a taper is like getting your toe ran over by someone on a mo-ped.

As far as the wd symptoms of Suboxone vs. a full agonist.....the symptoms are all pretty much the same, just not quite as intense during Suboxone wd, and if you taper, the symptoms seem to be very mild.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:21 pm 
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I have been off of subs for around 50 days, opiates for 15. I would not go without my B-vitamin complex and adrenal support. I have energy and plenty of it. Exercise is key for me.

Supplements - GABA, Melatonin, Magnesium, Good Multi.

Pharmaceuticals - Lunesta and Klonopin as needed. Careful and sparingly.

By the way, I was on subs for 3.5 years and jumped at .5mg. I switched to poppy pods for 35 days to shorten the duration of w/d. The w/d was intense for 2 days and then it wasn't a bad ride. Just anxiety.

Good Luck.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:30 pm 
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That makes a pretty good case for tapering. But I have seen that defined as stopping and jumping at either"

4mg.

2mg

less than 1mg.

Some small fraction of one mg.

I would think it would matter how one feels during the taper. If it is a constant form of W/D then the highest possible
taper point would be used. But if one feels fairly good as the taper continues down, then it would make sense to
go to some micro-dose. Some fraction of one mg - that is documented in many posts on the subject. But if 2mg seems to wok as a low enough dose - that would be easier to get to than a fraction of a mg. I believe in a recent tape made by
Dr. Junig the jump point recommended is 4mg---possible 2mg, I forget.

And the other key factor when designing a program most likely to work is the time frame-- the time between steps
lowering doses. I have seen long tapers like one mg down per month. This is a full year from 12 mg to 1mg. On the other hand I have seen very brief periods suggested between step-downs, such as 5 days or a week.

Knowing where you are going and how long it will take are pretty basic for any trip - and should be known before starting.

Romeo, or anyone, is there any evidence or strong opinion on what seems to be working the best in terms of the destination (jump number) -- and the rate of speed to get there? I am inclined toward moderate speed because of the
difficulty of long long tapers. But---if haste tends to correlated with lack of success -- that would be very good to know.

I know we are all different, but that does not help in deciding on a plan with no information on how you will do.

Some best guesses and what seems to be best -- that is what I, and others I think, would like to hear.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Good information BB. But what is a poppy pod? And, you mention GABA as a supplement. It is available OTC, but

I have always wondered about taking the thing itself you want to start up in your own system. If the building blocks of the

desired neuro chemical are taken that can be good. But would not GABA production in the body not slow down in response

to a supply from the outside. This happens a lot-- like with testosterone -- but if GABA acts differently, then it might be

a good thing to take. I have avoided taking it as a supplement for this reason. But maybe it works differently than I think.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:16 pm 
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If you take GABA for a short period of time (as in couple days at a time) it could help get you back on track slightly faster. You're right that taking it consistently, like every day, would just be worse for you in the long run.

Overall though I'd say recovery is 95% being active (which includes eating healthy), and 5% about the supplements you take. If you don't take the GABA, it won't drag out your PAWS much longer, but you will notice the difference if you do take it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:30 pm 
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I took Gaba (got it at GNC) for about 3 weeks after the jump. Im not quite on day 60 off subs and feel pretty damn good. Ive noticed that my energy level at work is near the same as before the jump. I think the roller coaster (ups and downs throughout the day) went away for me around day 30. My energy level didnt return until recently, so I guess around day 45.

This is the list of what I took during the jump- Imodium(walgreens brand), Passion flower extract(taste like liquid dirt,(GNC)
Milk thistle (walgreens), Valerian root (smells like cat shit! (walgreens), Melatonin(walgreens), Magnesium(walgreens), Gaba(GNC), plus different over the counter PM and leg cramp meds, which did NOT A THING!!

I still take a multi-vitamin (Mens energy heath from walgreens), L-tyrosine(GNC), B-12 liquid sublingual(walgreens), B complex vitamin (walgreens).

I dont know if any or all helped, but since I feel like I do at near 60 days off, Im glad I took them.
Good Luck and keep fighting!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:17 pm 
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I completely forgot to list chlonidine in the jump list. I got mine on day 17 and MAN did it help with sleep and RLS. I took it nights when I had to work the next day. I stopped after about 2 weeks as I started falling asleep on my own plus, I havent had any problems with RLS since then either.


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