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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:17 pm 
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Hi! I am new here and just posted under introductions. I hope it is ok if I go ahead and comment on this even though I haven't been around long. I don't have anything extremely unique to say but I definitely agree with the majority on here. Selling as an addict to me is different than selling as a "job" or to make "easy money". I agree with setmefree that people should try to better themselves and get a "job" a real job and be a productive member of society. Selling drugs isn't positively contributing to anything or anyone in my opinion. I also believe we are all accountable for the society in which we live and condoning such behavior or even dismissing it is somewhat disrespectful to ourselves, or yourself. What kind of world do you want to live in? One where we promote doing the right thing for everyone or one where we do what is "right" for ourselves? I know there may be little reality to my fantasy, but it is my responsibility to try and create the world I want to live in and my family to live in after I am gone.

I also believe in rehabilitation but believe we need to further research what works and avoid sentences geared toward punishment and vengeance alone in favor of protection of society and the individual short and long term. We have a very long way to go as a society in my opinion.

Meg


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:48 pm 
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Did anyone read what I said time after time. I don't necessarily agree with any of what I was saying, I was merely playing Devil's Advocate. Just like a debate team when you are assigned one side of the issue. I'm not sticking up for drug dealers or saying they are girl scouts so lets stop painting me out as the bad guy.

Of course the dude with nine DUI's needs to be in prison but while their he needs to be forced to attend a recovery program. When in Prison you are not held to do anything, all of those self-help programs are voluntary. They can look good on your "prison jacket" if you show you are making the right steps but none of them are mandatory. The guy is not learning a job skill, learning his triggers, he is simply waiting it out till his next drink.

Also, if a doctor is stealing meds from the supply cabinet chances are he/she is going to start treating patients while under the influence which is directly putting the life's of his patients in harms way as well as his/her own.

If someone is selling to fuel their addiction it's understandable but if someone is selling just for the money it's not? I'm sorry, I just can't rationalize this. We don't want to be judged/viewed in the wrong light for the choices we made during our addictions yet you get a free pass for doing illegal activity since you're under the influence? If you are using and dealing then you should know BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE that you are not only contributing to your own addiction but you are also contributing to others. That's the SAME END RESULT as the guy who is just in it for the money. You are still doing it for profit, but instead of money you're doing it for your next fix which is an addicts currency. I just don't see any difference there, similar intentions, same end result.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:40 am 
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mayunholdup,

I think some of the confusion on your stance might be that you say you are playing devil's advocate and then you will go on to state what is an argument for your position. It is hard to tell where the devil's advocate ends and your opinion begins. I am not trying to be critical of you here at all and hope you don't take any of my posts as being contentious. Either way, you have made some good arguments and you may be right that the end result is all the same. For me it still goes back to the intent behind the act and the intent between the two groups is very different. This is why there is a difference between manslaughter and murder. The end result for both is still the same as someone still died. But the law takes into account the intent behind the act. Intent doesn't matter to all people.

The intent for the addict is to stay alive. They need the drug in order to live. It is like food, water, and air as far as the body is concerned. We all need to have those dopamines in our body or the body wouldn't generate them on its' own. Since by taking opiates, we have robbed our bodies of the ability to make their own we have to get it elsewhere. That drives the behaviors.

The person who isn't addicted has far more choice as to which behaviors they choose. Their intent behind the act isn't the same.

Then it gets down to the chicken or the egg question. Is it the drug dealer creating the demand by getting people hooked and then continuing to provide a "product" to the consumer, or are the consumers turning themselves into addicts and creating the demand and the drug dealer is just providing a "product" to the consumer?

I don't know if this matters really. It was just a thought.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:57 pm 
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That is ridiculous, :shock: we did not start becoming addicts to stay alive...we were addicts because we liked to be high,to not feel.Dealers did not make us addicts we did!!!!most the time I sought out the dealers to get my pills... when are people going to accept responsibility for there own actions and not blame others?I say at the end of my addiction I needed the pills to function not to stay alive.We addicts and the dealers are all wrong,some need prison most do not..bottom line accept responsibility.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:00 am 
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what's up

in my opinion, a person who is dealing any type of potentially-lethal substance is a criminal because they are willingly engaging in something that could kill other people. as such, this should be punished with not only prison but, much more importantly, education. prison should be kept to a minimum for a few relatively simple reasons: for one, yes, a dealer has the potential to kill many people with the action that they are doing, but I think a murderer, rapist, or other violent offender is more deserving of such a punishment because these are people who have actually already killed/raped/whatever someone/people. we need prison space for these people more than we do for drug dealers. (i'm not even going to go into the efficacy of the way our current prison systems are run; in my view, prison itself should be centered around and stressed upon education for the duration of a prisoner's stay, not just a metal sandbox for people with issues to be locked inside.)

second, in my opinion, you will have an easier time educating someone who deals drugs on why that is a bad thing than you will a murderer on why killing someone is a bad thing. logic prevails here; violent people are extremely difficult to just control, much less educate, and if a person is otherwise non-violent but happens to sell drugs, i get the feeling that, at the very least, they've got a bit more moral grounding than the aforementioned felon.

it's actually my view that there should never be prison time, parole, probation or anything of the sort for people who solely consume drugs. I've only been reading this board for a few hours, but most of the folks here seem to me to realize that an addiction/substance abuse issue is a health problem, not a criminal one. sure, maybe impose a fine on someone caught possessing drugs, but the main focus should be on education and treatment, in whichever way is most effective for the individual. i can speak from personal experience when i say that prison and probation have had the opposite effect that the government has intended for me on the issue of mind-altering substances, and has certainly done zilch to "educate" me.

and on the DUI thing, correct me if i'm wrong, but in some places in Europe, if you actually do get caught driving under the influence, does your license not get permanently revoked? i'll look it up in a bit, but this actually makes a lot of sense to me. as commonplace and, for most folks, as necessary as driving might be in our society, i think it still should be treated as a privilege, not a right, and driving under the influence of any substance is an insane risk to the hundreds/thousands of other people you pass on the road while you're doing it. if you lack sufficient judgment/reasoning skills to see why this is so, you shouldn't be fucking driving.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:49 am 
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oh my lord so many posts and im too tired to read them all! Here is what i believe, a drug addict should never be punished for his/her using and should not be punished for crimes to feed their addictions unless those crimes harm other people or their property. In the case of a junky who breaks into cars and is a menace to society, some help needs to be forced onto them, education, some attempt at something. If they go on with their destructive ways towards others, they gotta be put away. If it's a junky who pan handles and gets caught shooting his dope, leave him alone. if anything take him to a place where he can get a good place to sleep for the night and have him sit in on a meeting or education seminar and say look "This is the life you could have if you wanted to pursue it! There are even medical options and you don't have to go thru withdrawal!" then let him loose and pray to your higher power you saved his soul and his life. As for the "War" on drugs, it's total bullshit, telling people what they can and can not put into their bodies is wrong and i believe that is a natural god given right. Telling me it's against the law to self-medicate my emotional pains away, telling me it's illegal to make myself fell better at the cost of my own life, it's just wrong. Yeah in the long run they end up crashing and burning, but they physically hurt NOBODY else but themselves! It's not like when i shootup dope, everyone within a 100mile radius gets stuck in the top of their hand with a needle and pumped full of dirty street purity black. if that were the case i would say it's very illegal because then your physically affecting other people. omg i'm rambling again! LOL i dunno i hope you guys understand my retardedness, goodnight!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:52 pm 
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yeah i feel you man. i'm not even into hard drugs, i think they destroy the body over time, but i am of the opinion that moderate marijuana usage, if controlled properly, induces no long-lasting harm to someone. i can name 3 things right off the bat that i feel are maiming & killing this country right now that are far, far, far more dangerous than pot. idk if that's kind of a taboo thing to say here, i apologize.

it's just, the only crime i have ever committed in my life is possessing weed. i was smoking it in my bedroom when the police knocked on my door and told me they had to enter to "check" and see if some random guy was there at my apt. turns out, they had the wrong door - it was another person in my complex who was wanted on some stupid charge or other. still, even though they made a mistake and had faulty information, they still chose to arrest me - my place of course smelled like it, they asked to search, i declined, they brought dogs. because of it i'm on a year of monthly probation & drug tests and had to spend a weekend in jail. for pot. just doesn't make any sense.

sorry to hijack the thread, i just kinda wanted to rant a little bit. continue


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