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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:17 pm 
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donewithitall, I'm so sorry to hear you're having such a hard time. I'm shaking my head at the thoughtlessness of your doctor for putting you on that much suboxone when your tolerance was clearly so low. I believe you're on too high of a dose, but dropping it down all the way to 1/6th of a strip isn't the answer either, I don't think. You're going from one extreme to the other. Now, this is just my non-medical opinion, keep that in mind, but I wouldn't shock your system by pulling it all away like that. Maybe I'm totally off base on this one, but it seems to me that it would be "kinder" and less stress on your already stressed-out body if you just reduced your dose significantly but made sure you had enough, maybe something like ~4 mg, around the ceiling. (I'm thinking you might have dropped TOO much and are now having w/d perhaps?) Then drop from there depending on how that dose makes you feel. And slowly continue your taper until you're down to nothing. Right now you're afraid and a bit freaked out. But this situation is doable. But it will go much smoother if you can try to remain calm and patient.

You haven't been on it that long, not long enough to totally mess with your tolerance, I don't think (?). You would basically still be using suboxone as a detox tool to taper off the meds you were on.

Be aware that the people who expect the worst withdrawals usually get exactly what they expect. If I were you, I'd try to drop my dosage little by little (we'll help you when we can as much as we can), and just live my life the rest of the time. Work on how you got hooked on the meds in the first place. Just because your habit itself wasn't very large doesn't mean your addiction doesn't need to be addressed. And once the sub is out of your system, those opiate cravings could come screaming back and it's good to be prepared ahead of time for that by learning how to address your own unique triggers and cravings; learn new coping skills, etc.

I hope even just some of this hits something for you and gives you some kind of relief or hope. This is not an impossible situation and you will get through this. You just need to keep taper down, SLOWLY.

Good luck and we'll help you as much as we can. :) Oh and welcome to the forum.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Thank you for the info hatmaker
I only started at abour 6mg/day to start and used used about 3mg at 2 times per day..About day 1 I started having anxiety attacks at work and come close to flipping out, I know its from the other being out of my system, and thats the price I have to pay to get off the pills and continue toward soberiety.
I know some people may need a large doasge , it all depends on what you were taking, each persons chemical makeup in their body. But I never took 3 per day, hell I didn't take an entire 8mg film since I quit, I put my mind to stopping but this stuff is stronger than anything I have ever take in my life....Not a bad thing, me , I just can't handle the aniexty that goes along with taking it .
I take 1/16th in the morning and 1/16th in the evening. so I may just be hitting partial wd's due to me changing my intake from 3 mg to 1/8th in 3 weeks, but I just can't handel the stress that it puts me on. I am new at this, so I am not for sure what I need to slow my thinking and anxiety attacks down, that would allow me to continue taking it, I need to just to get the pills completely out over a timeframe instead of just stopping sub as well. I do that, I know more than not , I may go back to the POS pills that I was on and I damn sure don't want that.
I go to my Dr monday, I am going to work Monday as well, I maybe stressed but I have to go in but this anxiety attacks is getting to me pretty bad. I don't want to be around anyone, can't eat, just stressed completely out from it all.
Is there any suggestions as to if i can take someone or ask my Dr about taking for the anxiety / stress, that would fix about 90% of my issues . But you maybe right, I think I am hitting wd's from the dosage change that quick but if I take the other 2mg's or so of the film, I will get sick as crap from taking anymore and start freaking out.
Thanks for your input, like I stated, I am new at this but want off everything and Sub is the first step to getting that accomplished but I just feel weird and stressed and can't figure out why after 2 weeks it hit me ?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Sorry for the typo... It was about day 15 that anxiety and panic hit me like a ton of bricks, which I was still at the 3mg at 2 per day that I had taken since induction. So that's when I decided to lower my doasge, I called the Dr and he wroks only every other week so the nurse called me back. She said just to play around with my dosage and figure out what makes it work ..WTH ? Just play around with my dose of this powerful drug, I have since started looking for another Sub Dr, I didn't want to hear just play around with what you need but that's what I got from them.
Like I said , I see the Dr Monday and therapist too, so I am going to go over all this stuff going on with me.
But I am still looking for someone else that prescribes subs, I really want to do this right and this is the way from people I know that have used it but I want a Dr that doesn't just come in the door, tells you this is what you need 3 8mg films each day , and walk out, I like a Dr to actually talk with me and find out what's going on with me. So I have my mind set to find another Dr
But I am gonna to continue to take Sub for now, I just need to understand is it the naloxone causing it, do I need subtex from what I seen on another topic, I am not for sure.
I took 1/16th this morning which has been 6 hrs and feel fine so I am not certain it is wd's or wouldn't I still feel bad ? I have never ran out because I never took what the opiate Dr prescribed anyway so this is my first time at getting off and what wd's are.
The main thing is anxiety but I do feel like I have the flu with taking this or it could be sinus issues ? I do have issues with sinus but now I can't take anything for that from being on Sub, so I am stuck at feeling like garbage..
Anyway, thanks for anything you may feel or believe is my issue and let me know what I need to ask my Dr Monday since he just wants me at 3 8mg films per day which I cannot take even 1 8mg muchless 3 per day..
Thank you very much for commenting to me about this, I am new at sub and going thru this


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:41 pm 
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donewithitall wrote:
Thank you for the info hatmaker
I only started at abour 6mg/day to start and used used about 3mg at 2 times per day..About day 1 I started having anxiety attacks at work and come close to flipping out, I know its from the other being out of my system, and thats the price I have to pay to get off the pills and continue toward soberiety.
I know some people may need a large doasge , it all depends on what you were taking, each persons chemical makeup in their body. But I never took 3 per day, hell I didn't take an entire 8mg film since I quit, I put my mind to stopping but this stuff is stronger than anything I have ever take in my life....Not a bad thing, me , I just can't handle the aniexty that goes along with taking it .
I take 1/16th in the morning and 1/16th in the evening. so I may just be hitting partial wd's due to me changing my intake from 3 mg to 1/8th in 3 weeks, but I just can't handel the stress that it puts me on. I am new at this, so I am not for sure what I need to slow my thinking and anxiety attacks down, that would allow me to continue taking it, I need to just to get the pills completely out over a timeframe instead of just stopping sub as well. I do that, I know more than not , I may go back to the POS pills that I was on and I damn sure don't want that.
I go to my Dr monday, I am going to work Monday as well, I maybe stressed but I have to go in but this anxiety attacks is getting to me pretty bad. I don't want to be around anyone, can't eat, just stressed completely out from it all.
Is there any suggestions as to if i can take someone or ask my Dr about taking for the anxiety / stress, that would fix about 90% of my issues . But you maybe right, I think I am hitting wd's from the dosage change that quick but if I take the other 2mg's or so of the film, I will get sick as crap from taking anymore and start freaking out.
Thanks for your input, like I stated, I am new at this but want off everything and Sub is the first step to getting that accomplished but I just feel weird and stressed and can't



figure out why after 2 weeks it hit me ?



I had anxiety b/c my does was too high. Doc prescrb visteral for anxiety and it works well. It is an antihistamine, so it's non addictive. Good luck


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:35 pm 
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What you are describing could be withdrawals, but as someone who's not a doctor to begin with, I can't really advise you with any certainty either way. What do your pupils look like?

Check your pupils and come back and describe them as objectively as you can without any prompting from us as to what to look for. And tell us more about your symptoms. Let's see if we can try to figure out if you need more or less sub. Just remember - we're not doctors and we're just trying to help you out - your doctor left you in a shitty position to just mess around with your dose with no guidance whatsoever. So please take any advise we give you for what it's worth - not medical advise, just support based on others' experience with some ideas thrown in that might help you out.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:56 am 
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Hatmaker, my pupils are one big solid circle, they seem to be larger than normal, so I don't know whatelse to say besides that.
I went ahead and took 2mg this am about 3 hrs ago and seem to feel better body wise but I'm just zoned out on this stuff. The hacking cough is from my sinuses, its allergy season and I've got them but I can't get anything for it because I'm on this sub, so I wish I could quit coughing, that would help me out somewhat.
With me being new at this, my Dr sucking at this, I can tell you guys know much more than me or him about sub, is the film more potent than the tablet? I was thinking about sking for the 2mg tablets, its very hard to control cutting the film to the exact dosage everytime, so the 2mg tablet, I can take and SLOWLY TAPER THEN OFF THE 2MG.
I still am a little anxious, I just don't want to be around people since I started taking this sub. It just makes me want to stay at home without anyone around me, I also don't have any energy whatsoever. I have tried being calm and been ok since yesterday morning but still feel out of it, just seems like a daze. I also started eating better since yesterday, so that has helped me. I've lost 22lbs so far from not being able to eat, so that doesn't help with my energy issue but so far since yesterday morning, I've been able to eat.
My big issue is the anxiety and wanting to be alone, I'm over a huge project at work in which I've got to present to our upper management and this sub has me flipped out, so coming and doing what I thought was right, going to sub and getting off the pills has me completely stressed out. The project and this has my nerves shot to hell.
Let me know what you think? I'm going back to the Dr Monday and any questions or issues you think I should ask him would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help, I'm just struggling with this


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Quote:
my pupils are one big solid circle


YOU ARE IN WITHDRAWALS!!! That's a classic sign of it.

I honestly didn't even read the rest of your post. You need to get above the ceiling and you'll feel better. (AGAIN, this is my NON-medical opinion, so please, base your actions not on my advice only. Do other research - a quick Google search on the signs of opiate withdrawals will help you.)

4mg is approximately the generally accepted ceiling dose. If I were you I'd take at lease 1/2 a tablet if not a whole one. You should feel better pretty damn quickly.

I'm in a rush now, so I'll read the rest of your post later and get back to you. Please check in when you feel better and let us know how you're doing. Take care!

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Hat, thanks for the help first off, support and info as well. I decided to take the 2mg and not the 1/16th that I had been taking for the last 3 days, the 2mg done the trick, I feel good and not anxious or sick from it. I am going to take it again around 5 pm. I've been taking 1/8th of the strip, so you're right, I think it was wd's from going from a high dosage to low that fast.
So I'm going to try the 2mg twice per day, I feel good right now from the dosage I took nearly 6 hrs ago.
I am gonna ask my Dr about the vistral per anxioussn, as long as I feel good and don't have panic attacks I'll be OK. I can't handle the panic attacks, those freak me out bad.
Thanks for the detail, advice and support. I'm going to go with the 2mg per since I finally feel good and no serious issues as of now. I also am still going to look for another Dr since this one is mainly about money rather than focusing on each patient.
Thanks again and I'll keep you posted as to how the 2mg works, so far so good!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:54 pm 
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YAY YOU! I'm SOOOO glad you found what works - for the moment anyway - for you. I'll check back with you later - headed to a funeral.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:41 pm 
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DoneWithItAll,

Hey there...I have been reading your posts. I just wanted to mention that maybe the withdrawal you are feeling (and I totally agree that is what is sounds like) is from your opiates and not from the subs. I think you said you had only been on subs since the first of April? I think this is most likely still from your original drug of choice and not the subs at all. I'm glad you seem to do good with 2mg. How's your anxiety today? I felt that same anxiety when I was playing with my dose the first week or two...It turns out my doctor had me on the right dose after all at 8mg once per day. I was still having cravings the first couple weeks and experimented with taking as much as 16mg for a few days. I had the same super high energy/anxiety and felt like I could have crawled out of my skin for a couple days...lots of muscle twitches and things like that. Is that what you are feeling? I found that once I went down to 8mg and allowed myself to stabelize on that dose I was fine. I feel great now. I think the first couple weeks are hard because your body is just going through so much. First of all you don't have that drug you are used to, then switching to something different and figuring out what dose is right for your body...everyone is different. I don't think there is a one size fits all dosing with this medicine. It should be based on what works for YOU. Sounds to me like they just started you WAY too high. I hope you keep feeling better! If you can just try to stay on a moderate dose like hat was suggesting at about 4mg per day for at least a week. Maybe then your body will adjust to it and you won't be going through all of the highs and lows like you seem to be getting now.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Well, its been 10 hrs since I took my dosage of 2mg and still feel good without any issues. Hopefully, I finally found my dosage. Still feel it, so i had increased from my. 5mg per dose, which was total of 1mg per day to 2mg. It seems to have fixed my issues from the last 4 days. I take it, I put myself into wd's from changing it too much. But I'm ok for now which helps me out with my feelings and that in return seems to have helped my anxiety.
I had been thinking maybe I needed more the first two weeks due to quiting the pills, after thosee got out of my system, the sub in return knocked the hell outta me at 4mg dosage. I'm no expert just a pill taker, well, let me rephrase that, "Was a pill taker". I've been off for 28 days now, its been good and bad but damn sure worth it IMO.
I'm going to make it until the morning and take 2mg when I get up since I still feel great from the 2mg this morning. I'll let you all know how it goes. But I think your insight into it has made me realize I had set myself into wd's thru the last 3 to 4 days with the. 5mg twice a day. Hell, that sux knowing I didn't have to feel like that but like I stated, I'm fairly new at this, so I know now not to lower my dosage too much.
I'm staying on 2mg but should I ask my doc for 2mg tablets? This cutting isn't too precise so I could cause it again with my bad cutting, accidentally taking 3 while wanting it to be 2mg. Do you think that would be best?
Thanks again for your input, I put myself through wd's but not anymore thanks to you guys info
Thanks again!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Hi donewithitall - That's great that you found out that you just needed another mg to make you feel better! As far as asking for the 2mg strips...you could, but from what I've heard, they are about the same price as the 8mg strips. You could call your pharmacy to confirm this, but if that's the case, you would be getting a lot more sub for the same price if you stuck with the 8mg ones, and it shouldn't be too hard to cut them since you only have to cut them into fourths, and not tiny pieces.

Since you are at 2mg now, and since the subs have such a long half life, I don't think it will make too much difference if your strips that you cut are not exactly the same size. At least you know for sure that you will still be getting exactly 8mg every 4 days if you use 1 strip for 4 days, even if your pieces that you cut are not exactly the same size each day...just try to get them as close as possible and don't worry too much about it.

But if you think the 2mg strips would work better, and if you have insurance to pay for it anyway, it's up to you. I just wanted to warn you about the price before your next appt Monday, so you are not surprised. Hope you still feel good later and tomorrow!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Taurus, thanks for the info, you make a valid point, I can eaisly cut into fourths. The other was rough, with the 16th but it also sent me into withdrawls. I felt horrible the last 4 days and I'm 100% sure it was due to the drastic decrease in Sub i did, not on purpose but now I know.
I had struggled with why was I taking something that made me feel this bad, I was about to stop which would've been stupid. But at least I figured out why I was all over the spectrum with moods, body and everything else.
I want to greatfully thank all of you again, I was flipping out, I'm new, so bare with me but I think my dosage is straight now.
I'll keep you all posted on my progress but 11hrs and holding off the 2mg but I think I may have made the 2mg work because of the 4 complete days at 1mg and withdrawls.
I feel so much better about this situation now than the last 96 hrs on the roller coaster. Just had no idea I caused it til I woke up this morning in utter pain and thought it was withdrawls and hatmaker knew it was
Thanks for your knowledge and support


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:30 pm 
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I do have 1 question for you all since I'm new at this :
Is there anything I can take for a hacking cough? I can wait and ask my Dr on Monday but this has been 2 weeks, I believe its from sinuses and not the Sub's since I've got it every year at this time of the year. I am just wondering, this cough is getting old but I can wait and see what he says.
I know you can't just start taking stuff while on sub but I would love to get rid of this coughing / sinus issues. I haven't taken anything since starting this med, too scared and know many things can and will cause serious issues while on suboxone.
Thanks again :D


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:31 pm 
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You're welcome! Once you get down to such a low dose, I think you can really feel each drop. I've tapered down quite a bit since I got on subs, and never really felt much difference, even dropping it a whole mg or two at a time. But once I got below the 3mg mark, I could feel even a .25mg decrease. So I raised my dose back up to what my body was comfortable with.

If/when you do taper, you should probably try it the way Dr. Junig and most people here recommend...long and slow. That way you won't go through having those withdrawals again! Hopefully you found the dose that works for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:13 am 
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Its day 2 at 2mg, so far so good. I didn't sleep good last night but still got a couple of hrs, think it was from increase since I've been able to sleep so far while on Sub. I'm starting to feel much better about the place I'm at right now. I'm going to gradually taper off as soon as I get STABLE FIRST..Think being stable is best before doing anything. I might add, I've had many surgeries over my life and had to take meds, I can honestly say this is the strongest thing I've ever taken by far.
One thing it does to me but isn't an huge issue, as soon as the film dissolves, my stomach goes growling, aching a little, could that be from the naloxone or whatever is with the sub?
I greatly appreciate all of your knowledge about sub, I'll be letting you all know and ask about the best taper schedule since I am clueless about sub. But like I stated, STABILIZE FIRST, then prepare for the future. Btw, I know my Dr is going to tell me I need the 3 8mg subs, which I don't want to get pissed off from but how do I go about telling him I want off, he made the statement I'll need that much due to my previous addiction. But looking, this is way more than the other I was even taking and 10x stronger.
This will be appt #3, I've got insurance and it paid for it but I've still paid out of pocket $280 and they said it will be used for future viisits, so he is gonna want me to stay on it due to money. I told them last time, my insurance sent you a check from the induction, why am I still paying for the visit when I should have a $175 toward upcoming visits which I pay a $25 copay. It got their attention because they were talking about before I even got out of the office, I could still hear them, DA's
but thanks for your support!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:24 am 
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Donewithitall - I'm so happy to hear you're doing so much better than a few days ago. I know it's easy to just say that, but I really mean it. You must have come here feeling so helpless and now you have control over things so you must feel SO MUCH BETTER NOW, in a few ways.

I think your plan to stabilize first then do a taper plan is a solid one. Ensure that you give yourself plenty of time to do a slow taper. Even though you're only on 2 mg, remember that you're going to taper down into the micrograms before stopping altogether (because as you said, it is VERY strong), so give yourself plenty of time to wean off. If you push yourself to go too fast, it will only serve to increase your suffering.

As for your doctor and his pushing 24 mg on you....it's hard to say how to handle that; it's really up to you. You can be honest with him and try to get him to accept that you only need 2 mg (sounds easier said than done with him) or just take what he gives you and save the extras. That would give you plenty of extra sub to use to taper off. Or to last you in between doctors. It's always good to have a back stock in case of emergencies. (At least most of us do that.)

You obviously know your doctor and I don't. Use your best judgment and advocate for your needs with him. Good luck and let us know how it turns out. Again, I'm so glad that you found the right dose for you. Happy happy, joy joy.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:02 am 
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Hatmaker, thank you for realizing I was in withdrawl, I swear I was about to lose it. But it was me juming from 6mg (3mg twice a day) to 1mg (16th twice a day) . I realize that now but I'm stable at 2mg once a day so far, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed!
Anyway, I'll let the dr give me what he wants, I know I'll have to do this on my own anyway, the Dr is in the business of keeping patients, at least this one is. The whole 96 hr rollercoaster ride was all due to the harsh dropoff on my part, so I know more now about sub than i did a month ago, that's for sure.
I'll keep what he gives me and lockup for my taper. I've got to ask you for your opinion, I'm off all week for July 4th, is that too soon to taper down in your mind? There is no wrong answer, I just have to have time to go thru most wd's and not miss work. Or I'm off the entire Xmas week.
The reason I'm asking, you guys know more about this but either week is when I need to go thru most of the wd symptons and eack time, I've got 11 days off of work.
I know its way early thinking about stopping but I can't miss work and want off sub, so that's my 2 options so I can be home to go thru the wd symptons, or at least start and hopefully not too bad with PAWS.
THANKS AGAIIN!


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 Post subject: med for cough
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:56 pm 
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donewithitall wrote:
I do have 1 question for you all since I'm new at this :
Is there anything I can take for a hacking cough? I can wait and ask my Dr on Monday but this has been 2 weeks, I believe its from sinuses and not the Sub's since I've got it every year at this time of the year. I am just wondering, this cough is getting old but I can wait and see what he says.
I know you can't just start taking stuff while on sub but I would love to get rid of this coughing / sinus issues. I haven't taken anything since starting this med, too scared and know many things can and will cause serious issues while on suboxone.
Thanks again :D


donewithitall, the best thing to do is to ask the pharmacist that you bought the sub from b/c they will know what might react with your subs and other meds you are on. Make sure they know you are on subs. You don't want anything sedating for sure b/c of respiratory depression. Delsym cough suppresssant contains no alcohol and is made ironically by Reckitt Benckiser, the makers of suboxone. It might be a good choice, but ask the pharmacist first. Hope this helps.

Sherry


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