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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:19 am 
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Wow first off I've gotta say that I just can't make myself believe that the film is in any way "safer" or will be diverted less. Diary mentioned much earlier in the thread that if someone is dumb enough to sell the entire packet of strips with the numbers still on them then they really do deserve to get caught. As for diversion of the tablets or strips I have seen literally no diversion whatsoever here in central Indiana but I suppose I don't spend any time around anyone (anymore) that would be willing to buy or sell their medications.

I'm still not really even convinced that diversion of Suboxone/Subutex is all that bad of a thing, well other than the legal consequences of being caught with or actually being the one responsible for the diversion of the drug. Please don't get me wrong I'm in no way endorsing illegal behavior nor have I engaged in anything illegal since I started on Suboxone/Subutex (I really value my freedom now :) but given the ceiling effect on respitory depression it's nearly impossible for anyone to overdose on bupe (yes even those with a low tolerance to opiates) as long as they aren't taking other CNS depressants with the bupe. Also if an opiate addict that is still using illicit opiates gets ahold of bupe they basically ensure that they won't be overdosing over the next couple of days if they take enough to get themselves above the ceiling effect and if they try using another illicit opiate for the next day or two they might as well be throwing their money away. Finally for those still using addicts that take bupe to get a break from the hellishness of active addiction that's a couple days that they aren't having to steal to support their habit, also that's a couple of days they aren't likely running into situations where people are sharing needles and as such they are less likely to run into things like HIV, hep, etc., finally it is also a couple days that they aren't totally pre occupied with finding a way to stave off withdrawals and as such they could even contribute to the rest of society by being able to actually work.

Anywho I need to be getting to sleep here soon. Take care you guys :)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:58 am 
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"Also if an opiate addict that is still using illicit opiates gets ahold of bupe they basically ensure that they won't be overdosing over the next couple of days if they take enough to get themselves above the ceiling effect and if they try using another illicit opiate for the next day or two they might as well be throwing their money away"


If someone is on bupe or has been in the past few days yes they can take a lot more of a full agonist before they feel it. Isn't this a big risk of death by overdose though??


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:51 pm 
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Matt2 wrote:
Wow first off I've gotta say that I just can't make myself believe that the film is in any way "safer" or will be diverted less. Diary mentioned much earlier in the thread that if someone is dumb enough to sell the entire packet of strips with the numbers still on them then they really do deserve to get caught. As for diversion of the tablets or strips I have seen literally no diversion whatsoever here in central Indiana but I suppose I don't spend any time around anyone (anymore) that would be willing to buy or sell their medications.

I'm still not really even convinced that diversion of Suboxone/Subutex is all that bad of a thing, well other than the legal consequences of being caught with or actually being the one responsible for the diversion of the drug. Please don't get me wrong I'm in no way endorsing illegal behavior nor have I engaged in anything illegal since I started on Suboxone/Subutex (I really value my freedom now :) but given the ceiling effect on respitory depression it's nearly impossible for anyone to overdose on bupe (yes even those with a low tolerance to opiates) as long as they aren't taking other CNS depressants with the bupe. Also if an opiate addict that is still using illicit opiates gets ahold of bupe they basically ensure that they won't be overdosing over the next couple of days if they take enough to get themselves above the ceiling effect and if they try using another illicit opiate for the next day or two they might as well be throwing their money away. Finally for those still using addicts that take bupe to get a break from the hellishness of active addiction that's a couple days that they aren't having to steal to support their habit, also that's a couple of days they aren't likely running into situations where people are sharing needles and as such they are less likely to run into things like HIV, hep, etc., finally it is also a couple days that they aren't totally pre occupied with finding a way to stave off withdrawals and as such they could even contribute to the rest of society by being able to actually work.

Anywho I need to be getting to sleep here soon. Take care you guys :)


Wow thats a different way to look at things. i never really thought about some of the stuff youve just posted. Its like a addict gets a hold of suboxone they are at least safe for a couple days from all the hell but at the same time i cant support anyone selling there script. So i dont know what to say to this. its like good and bad all mixed intot one big problem.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:01 am 
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I totally agree Bboy. I'm afraid that I maybe didn't make myself too clear with that last post. I think the main point I was trying to communicate is that I'm not sure why people don't seem to be more upset about the diversion of oxycodone, hydrocodone, and other full opiate agonists instead of bupe/Subutex/Suboxone. To further clarify, I don't recall ever hearing of a specific limit on the number of patients Dr.s can treat with full agonist medications and yet Dr.s who can prescribe bupe/Suboxone can only have 30 patients their first year and only 100 after the end of that first year. Heck I'm disturbed that no doctors are given specialized training in prescribing regular full opiate agonists. I think my main point of my previous post was that while some diversion of bupe/Suboxone occurs, there is an incredibly higher number of more abusable opiates being diverted. I really just wanted others to perhaps realize that while diversion of partial agonists like bup/Suboxone/Subutex occurs, it is still a better thing than full agonists being diverted. I have found myself in the midst of another chance at life because of Sub. I'm hoping if bup really is being diverted in large quantities, at least it's not oxy, morphine ,of heroin

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Matt2 wrote:
I totally agree Bboy. I'm afraid that I maybe didn't make myself too clear with that last post. I think the main point I was trying to communicate is that I'm not sure why people don't seem to be more upset about the diversion of oxycodone, hydrocodone, and other full opiate agonists instead of bupe/Subutex/Suboxone. To further clarify, I don't recall ever hearing of a specific limit on the number of patients Dr.s can treat with full agonist medications and yet Dr.s who can prescribe bupe/Suboxone can only have 30 patients their first year and only 100 after the end of that first year. Heck I'm disturbed that no doctors are given specialized training in prescribing regular full opiate agonists. I think my main point of my previous post was that while some diversion of bupe/Suboxone occurs, there is an incredibly higher number of more abusable opiates being diverted. I really just wanted others to perhaps realize that while diversion of partial agonists like bup/Suboxone/Subutex occurs, it is still a better thing than full agonists being diverted. I have found myself in the midst of another chance at life because of Sub. I'm hoping if bup really is being diverted in large quantities, at least it's not oxy, morphine ,of heroin


oh no i knew 100% what your post meant. And i agree i rather have kids buying suboxone off the streets then oxy if it came down to it. and thats one thing i agree on 100% how come sub drs could only see 30 the first year while pain mang drs prolly have no limit. i would think it would be the other way around so the dr with 30 paitents on painkillers he could watch closley and keep and eye on instead they give out so many scripts a day they have no idea whos doing what with what.


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