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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:15 am 
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Hello Everybody,
So I have been on here before as I am a struggling opioid addict and started taking subs again. I will explain my situation more in a bit but wanted to pose the real question of the forum. So I was listening to my favorite person in the world Duncan Trussell from the DTFH podcasts. He had one with Dr Drew on it and he said that more people are being killed by hands of his peers (other drs) then by street drug dealers via pill mills. He straight up said don't take suboxone for more then a week as a way to ween yourself off that's it, no pain management. After that 6 months minimum of intense therapy sessions. He said there is a real problem of drs not understanding addiction and the addict. was Dr Drew ever an addict? I'll look it up don't bother answering. So is it wrong of me to be taking subs to stay straight and get through work to provide for my family and newborn, or am I supposed to quit and get help somewhere? Question is where because the only recovery place in my town is the ones handing me out subs and Xanax for years now. I don't know what to do if I shouldn't be on meds I feel like I would be a worse person for the initial time at least and then how am I to stay focused as an addict? I also take it instead of craving H and also keeps my constant migraines at bay. My family thinks I am not clean if I am on suboxone, but I don't feel high like I do when the real was in me. I did quit subs for about a year but relapsed and here I am again. Please help I don't know if he is right, or if he is paid to say these things and as a backlash of success. Should I stop now or down the road when I am ready? thanks in advance to anybody who wishes to reply.

This is the link to the podcast episode 133 on Duncan Trussell Family Hour skip to last 14minutes for his statement on opioids and 4 mins left for suboxone statement:

http://duncantrussell.com/dr-drew/#/van ... ssion_id=0


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:55 am 
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Marky,
Welcome to the forum. .i wish i had more time to address this. Im at work, but know this: YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING TAKING SUB.. You are CLEAN in my ehes. SUB IS SAVING YOUR LIFE. I ll with hold my comments on DR EGO. (drew).....razor


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:31 pm 
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I look at Suboxone as a treatment for a medical condition.
I see opiate addiction as a disease.
We know now that there are many ways to recover. Some see it as a total abstinence or nothing kknd of deal.
Buprenorphine treatment takes away the Obsession and Compulsion to use other types of opiates. To help Ourselves into recovery.

Some do not see it this way. It can be family, it can be a non addict on tv or radio, it can e other addicts themselves.
This is your recovery Marky, and I feel you have made the right choise to seek treatment again. Suboxone saves us from relapse and saves our lives in the process.
Think where you would be if you hadnt started treatment. .
Im sure others will come aloug and give there take, this is mine..

Hang in there..Razor


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Razor I really appreciate your reply and opinion, it really helps me out to hear that. I am planning on researching good places to find help that aren't a 12 step or group in the Midwest so probably Hazelden. I need them to focus on my situation with me individually which is hard to find for some reason. I can afford to take off time from my business because my wife has a dr degree with government job but I need to know its worth it. I don't know if Dr drew is right with 6 months therapy because Ive always believed that someone who wants to get clean doesn't need rehab, and somebody who doesn't want to get clean rehab wont work, so its a cult business IMO. Like you said you think addiction is a disease, I believe its a mental decision/ psychological issue. got to give yourself some accountability but I do know its harder for some to resist then others due to genetic factors etc. But that's my two cents, I have a hard time believing anybody coming from a brainwashed religion family. From an early age I was made to believe santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy were all real as well as Jesus the bloody savior so its a good setup to make somebody ask real deep questions about society's history. that's my rant have a good Christmas everybody, and if your bored google amanita muscaria Christmas and you will have a whole new history of Christmas;-) peace and much Love


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:25 am 
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MFB - FYI: Hazeldon is 12 step focused, also they are considering using Suboxone long term. The most recent information I got from them may be a bit dated but all the treatment tracks were medication free at 12 months
. My opinion, Dr. Drew is a quack, a wealthy quack, but still a quack.
PAX


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:52 am 
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Edited due to Suboxone bashing which is against the forum rules. Opinions are not facts.

Rule62


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:48 am 
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I WOULD BET DR. DREW IS NO ALCOHOLIC OR DRUG ADDICT! SEEMS TO ME LIKE YOU HAVE ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION. THE FACT THAT YOU ON BUP LETS YOU FUNCTION NORMALLY AND OFF OF IT YOU RELAPSE AND GET OUT OF CONTROL JUST ABOUT SUMS IT UP. MANY OF OUR FAMILIES THINK IF WE ARE ON ANY KIND OF DRUG THIS IS WRONG...BUT YOUR FAMILY IS NOT THE ONE WITH THE ADDICTION PROBLEM.

YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU. ALL THE 12 STEP PROGRAMS IN THE WORLD COULD NOT STOP MY ADDICTION. THE BUP IS THE ONLY THING I EVER DID THAT ABSOLUTELY STOPPED MY CRAVINGS FOR HYDROCODONE AND METHADONE.

I SUGGEST YOU STAY ON THE BUP. YOU HAVE A FAMILY AND A LOT TO LIVE FOR.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND MERRY CHRISTMAS!

SLIPPER

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"For evil to flourish, all that is needed is for good people to do nothing." >> Edmund Burke


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:39 pm 
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Diditformykids,you better be glad I don't wanna jack this thread because your post is INSULTING to say the least..


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:03 pm 
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Thanks everybody! I can see both sides and everybody has their opinion. I do remember quitting and I didn't have a lot of the side effects I have now like no appetite and sex drive but that varies from person to person so the poison you feel could be associated with those feelings. But the fact that it has helped me from probably loosing my job, wife, and quite possibly the way I would use my life so all points are valid and taken with consideration. I'm going to ride this out on my own for awhile and keep you posted with any breakthroughs on research that I might discover. Later


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:04 am 
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Hi Marky,

After reading your initial post I listened to the last 14 mins of the podcast and read Dr. Drew's profile on Wikipedia. He is not and never was an addict (anywhere that I could find reading online and from watching his shows). I'm so surprised to hear he would make a blanket statement like that-seven days max on Sub. To me- bullshit. Had I only stayed on Sub seven days I'd be long gone from a heroin overdose. I've been on Sub almost seven years and have been able to straightened out my life, regain some sense of normalcy, finished multiple degrees, started businesses, repaired relationships with my family and friends.

I watched a couple of seasons of Celebrity Rehab, the one with Mindy McCready, Mike Starr, Joey Kovar (all of whom have passed away), and the year before that with Rodney King, Jeff Conaway (also now deceased) and I'm just shocked that he would say that. I know no doctor can "save" everybody but I wonder who of the opiate addicts would still be here today if they had stayed on some type of maintenance opiate (especially Mike Starr from Alice in Chains). Also, he deals with celebrities, who probably have easy access to doctors that will prescribe them whatever they want, whenever they want so he's kind of in a different world with his clientele. It's a different situation for most of us normal folk. It might be a different story for many of us if we were famous and had easy access to doctors prescribing our drug(s) of choice whenever we wanted.

Dr. Drew has been widely criticized many times for his approaches, for saying how he would treat certain celebs struggling with addiction and for many various statements he has made. What a careless statement to make. That pisses me off. He sounded quite cocky too, swearing every two minutes, talking about other doctors who don't get it. He's the one that doesn't get it as far as Suboxone goes.

It sounds like you have a WHOLE LOT to live for, good things happening in your life and if you're just coming back from a relapse from heroin, I think you know what the best thing is for you- getting back on Sub and staying on it for a while and thank God you didn't die from this slip. (Just be super careful if you're still taking Xanax or any benzo while on Sub.) Many people I know have to drive hours to see their Sub doc so find one that works for you and don't let distance deter you. Where there's a will, there's a way my friend.

I get slack from some family and friends saying I'm not really clean on Sub. Been dealing with that bs for years. They don't get it. I've given up trying to explain to them. I tried using an analogy about one friend who has to take heart medications. If he stopped taking them, he might die. Same for me and this medication. Still didn't get it. I give up trying to explain to people my reasoning for staying on it as long as I have and wish I had kept my mouth shut about it (was on Sub for almost seven years, I just jumped after a long taper, and am doing okay, but if I start getting cravings again, I'm going right back on Sub in a heartbeat). Just buried my best friend in October from a heroin overdose. I believe she came off Sub too soon and would still be here today if she had stayed on it. She leaves behind a beautiful baby girl too. So so freaking sad (and possibly could have been prevented).

Have a good day Marky! Hope this post helps! Keep posting!

Sage


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:18 am 
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Sage.
I am grateful you took the time to both listen to the portion of the podcast and take time to reply. I have a Dr here in my town at the recovery place and he seems to take an alternative approach to me. I am on a list of meds and not sure if I should be taking all of these I feel overloaded sometimes. So all the suboxone I could ever want even though I take 2mg or less a day after heavy deadly IV doses of the nations purest H in the twin cities. Then for sleep I have Seroquel. For anxiety I have Xanax 1.5mgs. For blood pressure clonidine and the stand up comedian drug to calm down propanol. Then for RLS I have gabapentin. I am not sure its safe to take all those at once but I am cutting myself down and trying to stop Xanax first but not too quick to avoid seizures. Sage I am sorry for your losses due to the opioid epidemic. I just thought maybe Dr Drew knew more then most with addiction because of his shows but I guess I really have to find the right path for myself and you guys helped me find it. Thanks again and much love to everybody


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:28 am 
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Hi Marky,

I'm sorry, I'm not clear on what's exactly going on (prob my fuzzy head). You slipped on heroin before but are now back on under 2mg of Sub? No more slips on heroin or are you going back and forth between that and Sub? (If you don't feel comfortable answering these questions then please don't, I'm just trying to get a better understanding of where you're at.)

Did one doctor prescribe all of these meds to you? I know it's a lot of meds but if it's all under one doctor's care and consent, and the bulk of the meds you mentioned are withdrawal meds and are temporary right?

Please be very very careful if your tapering off Xanax. That sounds like a lot to do at once- come back from a slip and taper off Xanax?? The benzos are a different animal with sort of similar/sort of different withdrawal effects with opiates but they can linger for weeks and months as well. I never had seizures before in my life expect withdrawing from Xanax. And they can come four or five days after the last dose of Xanax so please be super careful and go slow slow slow with the taper. I know a lot of people who ran out or decided to stop, went into detox, would come home a few days later and then start having seizures. Get your dose down to .25mg for at least a few days before stopping completely (or whatever your doctor advises you to do of course).

I was on five prescription meds at the beginning of this year- an ADD med, anti-depressant, anti-anxiety (Clonopin), Sub and Propranalol to help with the physical symptoms of anxiety. These meds helped a lot for a period of time, but then I started feeling worse and worse and with the ADD med it was like everything was in my face and I'd hyper focus on stupid shit. It was also totally burning out my adrenal glands, causing extreme fatigue, making me more stressed out and ultimately I couldn't do more than a few hours of something at a time without having to go lie down, if I was able to get out of bed and do anything to begin with (quite a contrast to the boundless energy and focus it brought the first year or two on it, if I could do it over again, I never would have touched any ADD med).

Made it a goal to get off one med at a time, do it slow and steady and take the year to get off at least the bulk of the meds and that's what I did. I started with the anti-depressant, fairly easy overall, then the Propranalol (I still have it and will take if needed, but I ended up in the ER panicking one day last year, covered in hives, feeling weak and confused and it was because I forgot to take the Propranalol [I was on 60mg ER per day] that morning. The're like- well if you don't take your blood pressure medicine it's going to cause it to spike. I was never on it for BP, but being on it most days, it caused a rebound effect by not taking it, even for one day. My doctor told me 60mg is a small dose and I was on 10mg per day initially and then 20mg, then up to the 60mg ER. I was taking it only as needed for so long, but as time went on, my body became dependent on it. So, lesson learned and I slowly tapered off it making sure not to skip a dose.) Next was the ADD med. This was tough because the first week of not taking it I'd be in bed, no energy. So, I'd just take it every few days, because I did still have to function, and as time went by, I'd space the days out more and more until I really didn't need it anymore (with many days in bed in between with no or minimal energy). When my own energy started to come back a little, then a little more, it was such a nice feeling. Then a break for a while, and I truly felt better being off three of the five meds (funny how that works sometimes, especially feeling happier after coming OFF an anti-depressant) then start tapering with the Sub. I guess my point is, if you know the bulk these meds are temporary, then create a plan with your doctor for which one(s) to start tapering first and maybe it's not a specific date that you do start tapering, just having the plan and beginning when you internally feel you're ready.

Hope this helps. Have a good day and keep posting!

Sage.
xoxo


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:28 am 
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Just want to chime in here...I would probably be dead by now if not on sub. Not from heroin OD but from a car accident or accidential over dose from all the crap i was taking. 360 mg of oxy, xanax, lyrcia, etc - all from one doctor who didn't write down what he gave me and had no idea what the mix of meds was doing to my mind and body.

I told No One i was on sub. The reason in my head is that it's a medication and i don't volunteer I am talking Blood pressure medication.

7 days on sub would have done nothing for me. I wouldn't have had a chance to feel more alive or awake, repair relationships etc. I feel bad for people that beleive Dr Drew and think they need off. To many deaths as Sage pointed out.

I am older, have chronic pain and will probably be on sub the rest of my life for the pain. I wish there was a medication for smoking that worked like sub worked for my cravings.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:24 pm 
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@Tiki- Yea I totally agree that a week is not enough time to get things back on track both mentally and physically. Thanks

@Sage- Ill answer any question just about to my fellow friends I find it easier to be honest with myself. So yes this is all one Dr that prescribed all the medications and it was kind of left up to me what pace I wanted to take it. I did come off subs a year ago and then I quit Xanax, which I agree was about as bad of withdrawals. I should of done them at the same time not separately because I really suffered due to the quick taper I did but had no seizures. But then When I was clean out on my own I never got past the anhedonia phase so I was always bored and craving plus had lots of migraines that put me into the ER. So after 6 months of being clean I ended up breaking down and relapsing and using subs in-between but now just taking the subs without any other use of drugs. I just really need help staying on track once Im clean because I know that's the right track so theres no question of what to do in my mind what I want/need to do. I want to be not dependent on any medication so I am planning on working towards the direction of weening but not too soon. I just feel like its a crutch for me I was okay off it after a bit and wasn't feeling so weird. Kind of like what you described of being happy off your ssri's? I know I have add, and have days of crushing depression but I just don't want to be on anything more you know? I know my Dr gives me the benefit of the doubt but I earned it with lots of proof. I know that all the meds were prescribed initially for temporary terms, but it has turned out to be longer due to my slip ups. Thanks for the advice you guys are all I really have to relate to and have common understandings. much love


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