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 Post subject: Back at it again
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Well I originally started posting here about a year ago when I was in the process of getting off subs. Which I did, pretty painlessly also. I managed to get down to .25mg for months then slowly went down to around .125mg, after a few weeks on that dose jumped. It was easy peasy.

Sometimes I wish I did feel some wd from that jump though just to remind me what I wanted to avoid. Well months go by and im actually doing pretty good, had some serious cravings, messed up couple times. But overall was doing good. I didn't have any numbers or connects. But then an old friend gets ahold of me, they needed a ride to get something and asked if I wanted to go along, so I did, get myself some H (my doc) but also got taxed by her just for using her dealer. This went on for a few weeks, about every 5 days we would go. I would do mine, and not feel a single wd symptom, was feeling on top of the world.

Then one day we meet up and she needed to use my phone to call her dealer since something happen to her phone. That's when it all went downhill, I had this number now, I could cut my "friend" out of the picture, get more for my money.

Fast forward 6 months and I have become a full blown addict again. I ended up getting a promotion at my job making twice as much money. Well, you know where that extra money went, right up my nose! Takes me 10-12 bags now just to catch a nod, maybe. 5-6 bags just to be well throughout the day. Cant afford this shit anymore, don't even have a bank account anymore cause i fucked up and took money out i didn't have.

God, how did i do this to myself, again!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:17 pm 
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We've all asked ourselves that question; don't beat yourself up. Get some help-- we all wish you well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:25 pm 
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I'm glad you came back to the forum to talk about this. Like Dr. J said in a recent post, we talk a lot about getting off Sub but we don't talk much about what life is like out there after we wean off successfully. You spent a lot of money and gave up your sobriety, but you still have a lot going for you. Most importantly you still have your life and health. If you need to get back on Sub for a while then so be it. You know you can get off of it if you decide that is best at some point in the future. Anyway, good on you for coming back and posting this. Please let us know what you decide to do from here.
Wishing you the best, Lilly


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:06 pm 
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OK, the good news is that you still have a job and therefore insurance? You know that suboxone can work for you, so you know what you have to do.

I understand that you are completely frustrated and feel helpless, but by reaching out, your are starting the path back to recovery. You don't have to worry right now about whether or not you will stay on sub indefinitely. Those decisions can be made later. Can you still get in to see your old sub doctor?

Let us know what you decide to do and how we can help you! We've all been through the desperation. You're not alone!

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:03 pm 
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I have insurance, but last time I was on suboxone, it didn't help cover it at all. The doctor visits were $125/month and he didn't take insurance for suboxone. And the prescription wasn't covered at the pharmacy either, cost about $8 for each 8mg tablet. He was prescribing me 16 each month, I was on 2mg daily. So it cost around $250 month, I could blow 250 on dope in 2 days easily so I guess it wasn't to bad.

Im pretty sure I could get back in with him, he seemed more interested in the money then anything. I told him 2mg daily works for me, I was actually stable on subs before I even got in with him. But he wanted me to take 8mg twice daily. I would of went with it and stocked up on extras if insurance covered it.

I managed to grab a couple sub strips from a friend. But today was payday and I just couldn't fight the urge, the devil won, again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Well don't give up! You can still be looking for a new sub doc or get back in contact with your old one, and start making a plan. Just because the "devil" won that round doesn't mean he's going to win every time!

So you admit that it's cheaper to pay for your appointment and medication than to constantly use. You just have to make the leap and get in contact with a sub doctor. I know it's not ideal to have a doctor that's just in it for the money, but it's better than having your addiction be out of control. You can also be searching for a new sub doctor in your area too, maybe one who takes insurance and actually cares about his patients. They do exist!

There are steps you can take to make your life better. Are you going to take them? The people of this forum will be in your corner and do whatever we can to help.

Amy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:53 am 
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You CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know you can..........

Im guessing your probably gonna need more than 2mg/day at least for a little while.......... maybe not?
here's hoping!!!!


yes, just becuase you lost the battle today, doesn't mean you won't beat the HELL out of it, tomorow!!!!

hang in there.....

is there ANYONE you can reach out to, to stay with or something? to kinda "ration" your H out, and help you
thru induction?
that might not be a good option for you, Im just trying to help.........

I pay outta pocket for my perscription and Dr. appointments, too.
So, I feel your PAIN, there.... but YOU ARE RIGHT,,, it's much better than using....

~~I could blow 250 on dope in 2 days easily so I guess it wasn't to bad~~
(as you said)


Keep FIGHTING.... ..... you are totally worth it.......

the links for suboxone dr.s just IN CASE you need them....

http://www.suboxone.com/patients/opioid ... octor.aspx


http://www.treatmentmatch.org/patients.cfm

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:37 pm 
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I've been talking to a friend about my whole situation, and she's been trying to provide me with some support. But its hard when she really has no idea what I am going threw, she never touched a drug in her life.

I was talking to this girl for a few weeks and once she found out about my habit she stopped talking to me real quick. I don't blame her one bit though. Stuff like that makes me really want to stop this crap, but at same time makes me want to use.

I'm currently living at my sisters with her husband, I moved in with them like 3 years ago when I first got on suboxone just so I could get away from the area with all my old using buddies and what not. If I told any of my family about this they would probably force me to go to rehab or something. Since they all believe I've been clean from everything for awhile now, but that's far from the truth.

amber4.14.11: When you say ration the H out to help get through induction, do you mean just taper off the H before getting on sub or is there a way I could use both? Because that is the hardest part for me, getting my body used to the sub. It takes at least 3 days of feeling like crap before the sub seems like its even doing anything. And that makes me usually use again cause I just cant take it.

And I just want to say thanks for everyone taking time to listen and try to help me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:01 pm 
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Hey there, NICE to hear from ya, again :wink:

So, I myself, would TRY ,, really try to lesson the H use, before induction,,,,, and I KNOW it's way easier said than done!!!

but, you bring up a good point........ there HAVE been people that failed sooo many times, trying to get back ON suboxone, from
heroin, they DID in fact take SMALL ,,, very small amounts the first week, while still using.....

Read this.... the posts about taking suboxone and heroin don't start until the second page, but go through
it and ya know,,, I think
WHATEVER WORKS MAN!!!!! whatever works, to get ya off the junk, !!!!!!

Be careful, whatever you do, and obviously the "safe bet" would be to taper down, or even take some short-acting opiate
before going back on suboxone............. It's up to YOU......

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7 ... sc&start=0


Good luck,,,,
I know you can do this!!!! If you do in fact take the "sub and H" route, please post how you did it.........

that's all I got for now!!!

hang in there :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:05 pm 
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I just read the whole thread, and there is only a few posts describing what to do.....
THIS seems to be the "short version"
on page two, half way down....

Homer wrote:::

(Quote)TeeJay wrote:
If anyone's goin to try this ... I'd start ..really.. low. Low low low like even less than 0.1mg Sub. Assess if you're feeling any precipitated withdrawal. If not, then maybe a lil bit more. Go really low and slow.

I'm not condoning this method of induction ... I'm just tryin to say. Proceed with caution. Precipitated withdrawal is no tea party.


Excellent advice.

I was easily able to take 1mg to start with though, but that was while doing a lot of gear. No harm in taking it slower though. Up dose as you feel. Have lopermide and benzos in stock for when you have got the bupe levels high enough to start feeling it. Then u stop taking the gear. You will instinctively know when cos it will no longer do anything.

I have done it a few times now and the most recent time I didn't even need the benzos. The big drawback with this method is it is too easy, so will always be tempting to go on another binge, knowing you can get back on the subs easy enough. Hence why I've been gone for a while . I am now on 7.6 mg daily and am tapering down to 6mg where I will stay until I figure out wether absolute abstinence is achievable or if long term maintenance is more realistic for me...

~~~~~ Second Important Post~~~~~~ (I bolded my favorite part) 8)
ROMEO WROTE........

Hey Mike,

I don't think Homer is trying to be cagey about his method for no reason, in his very first post he stated, "the main downside is , once you know it, it mkes it easy to relapse, knowing u can painlessly go straight back on subs."

I can kinda see where he's coming from. He doesn't want to enable a bunch of addicts to be able to jump from opiates to Suboxone with no issue's at all because he's worried that will hurt them in the long run. Homer is apparently suffering from a moral dilema as to whether or not he should post his method. I know one of the things that kept me from bouncing back and forth between pain pills and Suboxone was knowing I'd have to go through wd each time.

Anyhoo, after reading through his posts, I have a pretty good idea of what he's doing and while I don't feel completely comfortable posting all of this, I'm gonna go ahead and do it. Here are excerpts from his posts on this thread:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"basics are start taking small doses of sub while u still using ger and slowly build up..1mg to start with, build up over days, upping dose slowly, 2 mg second day..still using gear...bupe needs to build up in your system"

"dont anybody start doing it till ive finished whoe schedule , but u will never throw yourself into wd just taking 2mg or under, not if you are a heavy user, always take the sub just after the hit too"

"honestly u dont need to wait for wds, take small doses of sub while still using...build up the bupe levels. thats the basics of it"

"I was easily able to take 1mg to start with though, but that was while doing a lot of gear. No harm in taking it slower though. Up dose as you feel. Have lopermide and benzos in stock for when you have got the bupe levels high enough to start feeling it. Then u stop taking the gear. You will instinctively know when cos it will no longer do anything."

"In my experience 1mg of bupe has no chance of kicking a substantial amount of methadone off your receptors. Maybe if you are already 48 hrs since your last dose, then 1 mg bupe might precipitate wds"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, it appears that he's taking a small enough dose of Suboxone (1mg to start) right after taking a hit of Heroin. By doing that, he's making sure he has enough H in his system where the small amount of Suboxone won't be able to knock all or even most of the H off the opiate receptor. He seems to do this for a couple of few days to gradually build up the amount of Suboxone in his system, then he ups his Suboxone to 2mg and again builds up Suboxone in his system. As the Suboxone is building up and slowly occupying more and more receptors, the H he's using is becoming less and less effective, not as many opiate receptors left to bind to.

Eventually, as the Suboxone levels get high enough, it will occupy all of the opiate receptors rendering the H useless and at this time, you transition over to Suboxone completely. I'm guessing the Loperamide (Imodium) and the Benzo's help smooth out the transition if things get bumpy.

Basically, what he seems to be doing is using the Suboxone to effectively lower his tolerance or the amount of H getting to his opiate receptors. I guess it makes sense? Since you can't decrease the amount of Roxie's you're doing on your own, you could use Suboxone in small amounts to "tie up" more and more opiate receptors over time and that's basically lowering your tolerance.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

well at least this way you don't have to read the entire thread, but You still CAN!!!
Just trying to make things a bit easier............

Hope this helps

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:33 pm 
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I only did a couple bags per day for two days just so I wasn't in wd. Then yesterday and today have been on suboxone only, the transition wasn't that bad. Ive only taken about 2mg total so far.

Im really trying to convince myself this is the right thing to do but its such a struggle. I mean I know this is the right thing to do, I just cant do it!

The one thing I hate about subs is I cant get any sleep. Im up allllllll night, before I know it the sun is coming up and I have to get ready for work, its horrible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:41 pm 
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"this too, shall pass"


I know it sucks right now, but it'll get better.... Id be willing to BET you could get some sleep
if you take more than 2mg......

but that's your decision, NOT MINE......

hang in there, you ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:45 pm 
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When I jumped off my very high mg Roxy habit I started with 8mg for the first two doses and cut it in half from there. It made me feel, well happy. I didn't have to spend hundreds of dollars a day go maintain. It helped majorly till I felt comfortable being off Roxys. The first few days were the worst, but I felt like a normal part of society again. I didn't have to deal with the life sucking dealers as much.

You can quit the H demon. I found the pill form of subs really helped at first since my preferred method was snorting. It allowed my brain to think I was still using, which helped me till I could differentiate that Roxys weren't worth it.

You CAN quit, if you want too! Subs are an amazing tool to do so.

WTBF


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 Post subject: WD and sleeping trouble
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:32 pm 
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When i quit doing roxys i also had serious trouble sleeping. I was taking a minimal amount of subs at this point in time and also Alprazalam as needed and at night. The Alprazalam i had been prescribed helped me a lot with being able to get to sleep... you may be groggy in the morning but that tradeoff was well worth it to me. Something to consider.


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