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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:13 am 
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Well, after 2.5 years on Suboxone (the past 6 months or so of that, tapering off), I'm back. I was off Suboxone for a little over a year (I think). I'm not really good about keeping track.

Anyway... I haven't been very successful at staying off the oxy. I'm off it now and back on Sub (which I still have on-hand from my treatment days). I haven't gone back to a doctor because two of the three doctors in my area are a joke. There's one doctor whom I hear is good. But, last I heard, his program was full (as always). He's affiliated with the local rehab hospital and steers outpatient inquiries to the Methadone clinic -- No, thank you!

Ideally, I would like not to be on anything. But, I'm not willing to go to inpatient rehab. I'm not that bad. I don't want that stigma at my workplace. I'm very well functioning on the opiates. In fact, whenever I come clean with my family, they are shocked that I've been using. I end up coming clean because I can't keep up with my use. In less than 3 months, I was back to swallowing 150-200mg at a pop, 300+mg a day. That's just not something that I can maintain for long, not even on my father's wayyyy-too-generous prescription (which I was filling despite him not using most of it).

I've been attending NA, hoping that it, somehow, will help. But, my husband has no desire for me to become "friendly" with the people (or pretty much with anyone, actually). So, becoming a real part of the fellowship would be a significant strain on my marriage. Because it's not something that I'm gung-ho on doing, it's not worth the strain. I'm not sure exactly how I feel about the whole NA thing. The people are wonderful, some of the concepts are right-on. But, I have some fundamental problems with some of the tenets. So... why would I strain my marriage for it?

I know that I use the oxy to cope with emotional issues. But, they are issues that are so deeply rooted I can't see how they can be removed. Addressing them is not something that I feel comfortable doing. I used to be able to deal with me without the drug, not so much now.

So... here I am, stuck as usual.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:44 am 
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I could have a huge argument with some NA folks I'm sure..because I have to question the purpose...is it telling someone they aren't clean enough? What about the person on Suboxone who is otherwise mending their life, and they attend one NA meeting just to find out they aren't the right kind of clean...and that person goes out and OD's on heroin, thinking to themselves they will never be 'right' by someone's standards that aren't their own? What then is NA doing, aside from looking down on people that are in "DRUG replacement therapy" as they like to call it?

"Well, AA wouldn't allow ..blah blah blah"....and alcohol doesn't affect the same areas of the brain as opiates either..

If anything puts a strain on your marriage...then there are two questions you should ask yourself: Is it a strain for you as well, and rightfully so? Is it actually jealousy and being labeled in the wrong way?

I'm no marriage counselor, but jealousy has no place in marriage, especially if you're an opiate addict..later on, that jealous will turn to something else, like possible control issues...and can lead to a disastrous end..
I want to take a wild guess that you're a young married couple...this is usually where this is seen the most..

I would suggest finding a program (treatment with suboxone, not NA program) and setting a goal for yourself...like staying in it for a year...and see where you can get. The further away from active addiction that you can get, the better you'll be, and less likely to want to go back down that road again. Any time you can get away from chasing opiates...the better off you'll be...and hopefully you can stop for good. Once you get some time under your belt, then you can try to address the reasons why, the underlying issues leading to it to begin with.

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October 8, 2013

RIP little brother. Gone, but not forgotten.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:43 pm 
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I remember what it was like taking percs and knowing that I really needed to stop, but I knew that if I stopped I'd have to go through the pain from my mom's death and the anger issues I had with my dad. I just did not want to go there! I didn't want to have to cry and feel the bad feelings again. I was stuck too.

But it wasn't until I took on these subjects with my addiction counselor while being treated with sub, that I was able to move forward in my life. It's really scary knowing that you're stuck and looking over the edge of the cliff you have to jump off of in order to move forward with recovery. I have to tell you though, what a relief it was to be able to put down my burden and admit that I needed help from my close people and the addiction counselor that I found. My counselor not only heard my problems, but she gave me tools to help me get past them.

Christin, I know it's scary to approach the subjects that have hurt you and are deeply rooted, but I want you to know that you're worth it. You're worth it, and your recovery is worth it.

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:29 pm 
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If you'd like a good example of things that have to be dealt with sooner or later...I'll open up on my own personal life...and something I did while in active addiction...

Before I EVER thought about Suboxone, or even knew it existed...I went into my step-dad's home and would steal his pain killers...Keep in mind, I really don't have any family...at least, not in this area. The step-dad is ACTUALLY the guy who married my step-grandmother. But my step-grandmother adopted me when I was 3, so she was mom to me as far as I knew. The guy that married her after my granddad passed away...step-dad...the one I'm talking about stealing from. (OK...now that everyone is almost as confused as I am about my family tree).....

So...at first, he lived up the road a bit, about 10 miles away. I had already gotten good at breaking in to places...not something I'm proud of ...but it's true. I would wait until late at night, then I'd go hit his pill bottle up for 10-15 of his lortab 10s...Then he moved right next door to me, on some land that he acquired and had always owned...but needed a trailer before he could move next to me. I inherited my home from the death of my "mom"...(step-grandmother)...

And when he moved down here beside me...I was really in heaven. Just go right next door and help myself...no driving necessary...anytime I thought I needed a fix. I would see him out in his garden...hit that bottle. Leaving for church...same.
I decided that I needed some credit (why the fuck???), so I stole his identity as well. What in the hell was I thinking?? I ask myself that every single day...NOW. But, back then...I didn't care. I needed money, and this was a way to get it.

I got clean, and I quit all that stupid shit...apologized repeatedly to him after I confessed to what I had been doing...but the only thing I left out of it all was that i had run up a couple of credit cards...in his name. Not over $1800 or so..but still, enough to matter. I thought I could take care of it..and nobody would be the wiser. I was wrong.

When the man found out...he was PISSED. And he went from being related to me, to being someone who despised me. He was no longer family...and treated me as such. Which I probably deserved..but can you imagine how depressing it is when you're 2 years into treatment...and you get hit with a lawsuit from someone who wants you to call him "dad"???
That's right folks...felony conviction...right here. Identity theft, 1 count.
Thank GOD for a friend that's an investigator with the Sheriff's dept here...when he questioned me, I of course didn't deny it..and he got it where instead of having 4 separate charges, I only had 1 charge of ID theft.

And when I said it was barely $1800....that means, the restitution I paid, which was lawyer fees, court costs, and the balances I owed ...added up to $1760. The man did that to me for $1700...
which...I probably would've done the same thing...but for God's sake, I had been clean for 2 years and he knew I hadn't stolen a fucking thing from him since I got into treatment.
He actually wanted me to go to prison..and tried to get the DA to go along with that....
But, to my face, he told me we would discuss it when we got to court, and see if I could get it bumped down to a misdemeanor. That was exactly what he told me the evening before court...
But when we got in there, my attorney came and said "he wants you to get ID theft, nothing less than that. He doesn't want you to have a misdemeanor."
I cried. A grown man, 2 1/2 years in treatment, and had been clean the whole time...I stood in a fucking courthouse and cried....this fucker wanted me to go to prison. I wanted to KILL him...
He lied...ball-faced lied. But he would run and teach Sunday School at church every Sunday and tell everyone how I screwed him over SOOOO bad....
But when it came time to do what he said he would do to me...nope...
that was probably the hardest thing I had to deal with in my entire 5 years of being clean. I never faced anything that stressed me so much, and made me want to turn back to getting high to escape the reality of it.
And I never discuss it with people too often..I'm VERY un-proud of that...it's something I did and I already paid all my fines+costs...and now I'm left with a permanent scar on my record that keeps me from having a gun...and voting.
But, we all do some pretty stupid shit...while in active addiction. This is by far the worst thing I did.

so there's my example. Not easy to tell everyone that..but I'm an honest person NOW. The dope I was doing made me a VERY dishonest person, and someone even I couldn't stand. I think that's why I wanted to end it all before I found suboxone....I HATED myself..literally. And what I had become.
But...it's NEVER that bad ...that you can't deal with it, and confront it head-on. It'll all work out.

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DOB: July 1, 1985
October 8, 2013

RIP little brother. Gone, but not forgotten.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:15 am 
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Hello christin
I just noticed u said u use to cope with emotional issues which I think might be the same for a lot of us and then we add to the list of emotional problems while using. I am thinking that u need to talk about these things if u want to get clean, or at least find a way to resolve the issues or forgive yourself or others. I was a hot mess while using and I worked on all of that before I resolved to quit, I honestly believe that is want is helping me now.
Why is there a problem with na and hubby, maybe he needs to understand why it might be beneficial to u and him if u attend or seek some sort of guidance. Which would he prefer u using or going to na. Well I wish u the best of luck this time around try and remain positive, u can do this!
Strawberry


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:15 am 
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Christin...

Why not just stay on the sub??? What is so bad about a drug that keeps you sober and not chasing the pill?? I see
so many people who get on sub and in 6mos to a year want to taper off..like they are cured..or just do not want to
be on anything..well I don't either, but I am an addict...and I know me...and I have stuff in the past as well..and
I would be right back out there...taking my hydros...and doing all kinds of terrible things...AA and NA are good programs,
and many people get sober there..but I did not..and I really tried in AA for 20 years...but could not quit the pills.

It was ruining my marriage, everything..so when I finally learned about sub..it was the only thing that had ever helped
me...not treatment centers..(5)..counseling(5)..anything...so I take it everyday just like I take my b/p meds, my insulin,
etc. I look at all these movie stars over-dosing and I think..if they had just known about sub....(and maybe they did?)
but I feel like if they had known they would be alive today.

And Johnathan...I have done the exact same thing you did...so not proud of it..and they set up a camera and caught me!!!
They were so mad..but because of my husband and being in a little town..they did not press charges...but every time
I looked at them in church I felt like a fool. You would think I would have learned from that, but no..it became to hard
to get my drugs..I began calling it in..((i am a nurse))..and I knew if I kept doing this long enough < I would get caught
and sure enough..i was caught at a Walmart in another town and taken to jail!!..Here I was...schoolteacher, nurse,
sunday school teacher..bla bla..and now I was in jail. My husband's brother was a lawyer and he came and got me out..
They did not know what to call it (i thought for sure it was a felony)..but they called it Phone Tampering..a class b misdeam.
so I lucked out there..but not at home when I had to come home and tell my husband...I have never seen him so mad.
We did not sleep together for 6 months..I felt for sure he would leave me..but he stayed..
We do these crazy things..when we are on our drugs..and then we expect the people we have screwed to be nice to us!

I do admire anyone that can get off everything...I am just not one of those people...not yet. I have been on sub for 3 years.

Please be careful..no matter what you do..and I wish you the best.
Slipper

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:19 am 
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Thank you to everyone for replying. When I read so many suggestions and the stories that you've been willing to share, I feel bad for posting. Why am I so unwilling to take advice? Why do I seem to have an excuse for why those things that have worked for others just won't work for me?

I'm not young. I'm a mother of three adult children (early to mid twenties), a wife, and a grandmother to two beautiful grandchildren 3 and 2. I didn't start using opiates until my youngest child was a senior in high school. Honestly, I thought that I'd find myself divorced at this point in my life. But, it hasn't worked out that way. My husband is now working (sometimes more, sometimes less) on his issues. I feel that I owe our marriage my loyalty as long as he's trying to work on the things that made my marriage miserable for twenty years.

My husband doesn't mind me drinking or using opiates, actually. That's because my use has never had a negative impact on my family. My husband's concern is that I'll OD and he won't know how to save me. The only thing that has been negatively impacted by my addiction is my conscience. I lie to doctors and I steel medication from my father by requesting refills that he doesn't use. Before the opiates, I was hard-pressed to tell a lie.

My dad found out this past month that I relapsed. That certainly was a negative consequence. Even at my age, I want to make my father proud of me. As you can imagine, stealing his medication is not the best way to go about that. He was kind and loving, which only made me more mortified and disgusted with myself.

I don't know if it's where I live or if it's me (gonna guess me). I've been to several counselors in my lifetime. None ever seem to help. One of my last counselors (4-5 years ago for my addiction), fell asleep mid-sentence , that's when she was speaking. :roll: I never scheduled another appointment. I did find another counselor about a year later. But, he was an addict himself and so steeped in NA that's all that he regurgitated during our session. I kept thinking, I can get this for $1 at a meeting. Why am I coming here?

A few years ago, I heard a rumor that a Suboxone support group was forming in the area. When I inquired, I was told that it would be only for those patients affiliated with the local rehab. It was their Sub doctor who was having the group started. I don't want to go to inpatient, which seems to be the only way to get the "good" stuff.

My first Sub doctor had me induct in my car in the parking lot to my work. It was a Friday and he was supposed to be available all weekend for me. I called and called him because I was so sick. He called me back on Monday, when he had returned from his ski trip. "Oh, that happens to some people," he told me. At one visit, he took a phone call and began berating another patient who had missed an appointment. He told him, "Your appointment was 30 minutes ago. Get down here and bring your money." :shock: He was a cash-only business and the only "addiction therapy" that he offered was to monitor how many 12-step meetings I was attending.

So, I started knocking on the door of another local Sub doctor. He accepted insurance (that was a huge relief), until I found out that he'd accept my insurance even when he couldn't keep our appointments (which was for a 9-month stretch). During that time, I went to his office to pick up my pre-written script. A week later, I would see that my insurance had paid him (a reduced rate. But, $75 to pick up a prescription???)

It seems that I look and only find bad. Yet, I have to ask myself, "What's the common denominator in all of this?" Of course, the answer is, "Me."

So, I don't have a lot of confidence in counseling or in the field of psychiatry (oh... I didn't tell you that when I was 17, I was diagnosed as schizophrenic, that is until I told the shrink that I didn't have insurance and would have to pay his bill in small payments. Amazingly, he found me "cured" at that visit. I need to add that I'm obviously NOT schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is a progressive disease. I would not be a functioning adult if the diagnosis had been correct).

Argghhhh.... See what I mean about being full of excuses???


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:15 am 
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There is a lot that could be said here, but what I WILL say is this...

You can find bad in every facet of the recovery world if you want to. Just depends on how bad you want to get better and hold onto it. Not just stay away from drugs. That becomes the most afterthought of an issue after awhile especially on suboxone. But.

If you cut out all drugs... Minus suboxone... And find something that you can make work in recovery... You'll get better everyday. I have many recovery outlets today, but don't be so fast to wrote something off just because of a bad experience or something you heard or anything like that.

Like I said... Always ask yourself just how bad do you want to keep what you have.... Or get something to keep...

Take away the suboxone... What are you left with? Are still just as fucked up bit not using actively? Or do you have something to build on?

Just some thoughts.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:30 am 
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I feel for you. Do yourself a favor and just use what you got on hand to detox yourself and TRY to stay off the opiates. I know much easier said than done but I am so regretting getting back on subs. I'm tired of the chains. If anything just take the lowest amount possible to stop WD. When I went back to start subs again they wanted to give me 16 and I was way too smart for that. 8 was just fine and i was pretty much where you're at. Addiction sucks.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:03 pm 
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jonathanm1978 wrote:
If you'd like a good example of things that have to be dealt with sooner or later...I'll open up on my own personal life...and something I did while in active addiction...

Before I EVER thought about Suboxone, or even knew it existed...I went into my step-dad's home and would steal his pain killers...Keep in mind, I really don't have any family...at least, not in this area. The step-dad is ACTUALLY the guy who married my step-grandmother. But my step-grandmother adopted me when I was 3, so she was mom to me as far as I knew. The guy that married her after my granddad passed away...step-dad...the one I'm talking about stealing from. (OK...now that everyone is almost as confused as I am about my family tree).....

So...at first, he lived up the road a bit, about 10 miles away. I had already gotten good at breaking in to places...not something I'm proud of ...but it's true. I would wait until late at night, then I'd go hit his pill bottle up for 10-15 of his lortab 10s...Then he moved right next door to me, on some land that he acquired and had always owned...but needed a trailer before he could move next to me. I inherited my home from the death of my "mom"...(step-grandmother)...

And when he moved down here beside me...I was really in heaven. Just go right next door and help myself...no driving necessary...anytime I thought I needed a fix. I would see him out in his garden...hit that bottle. Leaving for church...same.
I decided that I needed some credit (why the fuck???), so I stole his identity as well. What in the hell was I thinking?? I ask myself that every single day...NOW. But, back then...I didn't care. I needed money, and this was a way to get it.

I got clean, and I quit all that stupid shit...apologized repeatedly to him after I confessed to what I had been doing...but the only thing I left out of it all was that i had run up a couple of credit cards...in his name. Not over $1800 or so..but still, enough to matter. I thought I could take care of it..and nobody would be the wiser. I was wrong.

When the man found out...he was PISSED. And he went from being related to me, to being someone who despised me. He was no longer family...and treated me as such. Which I probably deserved..but can you imagine how depressing it is when you're 2 years into treatment...and you get hit with a lawsuit from someone who wants you to call him "dad"???
That's right folks...felony conviction...right here. Identity theft, 1 count.
Thank GOD for a friend that's an investigator with the Sheriff's dept here...when he questioned me, I of course didn't deny it..and he got it where instead of having 4 separate charges, I only had 1 charge of ID theft.

And when I said it was barely $1800....that means, the restitution I paid, which was lawyer fees, court costs, and the balances I owed ...added up to $1760. The man did that to me for $1700...
which...I probably would've done the same thing...but for God's sake, I had been clean for 2 years and he knew I hadn't stolen a fucking thing from him since I got into treatment.
He actually wanted me to go to prison..and tried to get the DA to go along with that....
But, to my face, he told me we would discuss it when we got to court, and see if I could get it bumped down to a misdemeanor. That was exactly what he told me the evening before court...
But when we got in there, my attorney came and said "he wants you to get ID theft, nothing less than that. He doesn't want you to have a misdemeanor."
I cried. A grown man, 2 1/2 years in treatment, and had been clean the whole time...I stood in a fucking courthouse and cried....this fucker wanted me to go to prison. I wanted to KILL him...
He lied...ball-faced lied. But he would run and teach Sunday School at church every Sunday and tell everyone how I screwed him over SOOOO bad....
But when it came time to do what he said he would do to me...nope...
that was probably the hardest thing I had to deal with in my entire 5 years of being clean. I never faced anything that stressed me so much, and made me want to turn back to getting high to escape the reality of it.
And I never discuss it with people too often..I'm VERY un-proud of that...it's something I did and I already paid all my fines+costs...and now I'm left with a permanent scar on my record that keeps me from having a gun...and voting.
But, we all do some pretty stupid shit...while in active addiction. This is by far the worst thing I did.

so there's my example. Not easy to tell everyone that..but I'm an honest person NOW. The dope I was doing made me a VERY dishonest person, and someone even I couldn't stand. I think that's why I wanted to end it all before I found suboxone....I HATED myself..literally. And what I had become.
But...it's NEVER that bad ...that you can't deal with it, and confront it head-on. It'll all work out.

I think you've got some denial issues to sort out, calling a guy a "ball (the expression is bold faced haha) faced liar" and "wanting to kill him" because you broke into his house and stole his prescribed medication and identity and charged almost 2,000$ to his credit cards is one of the most pathetic backwards ass things Ive ever heard. "the man did this to me for 1700$" um no you did that to yourself. Funny thing how he gave you a second chance after you told him you stole the pain pills, that right there shows he's a good guy and understanding. Then he finds out that you omitted the fact that you robbed his credit cards and stole almost 2 grand and you wanted to kill him because he doesnt just bend over for you? Obviously you havent even learned what you did was wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Not to be all picky, but it's actually a bald-faced liar. Bald face refers to a lack of whiskers to hide your expressions behind. It's pretty archaic, but there it is.

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/b ... 889426.htm

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Strawberry wrote:
Hello christin
I just noticed u said u use to cope with emotional issues which I think might be the same for a lot of us and then we add to the list of emotional problems while using. I am thinking that u need to talk about these things if u want to get clean, or at least find a way to resolve the issues or forgive yourself or others. I was a hot mess while using and I worked on all of that before I resolved to quit, I honestly believe that is want is helping me now.
Why is there a problem with na and hubby, maybe he needs to understand why it might be beneficial to u and him if u attend or seek some sort of guidance. Which would he prefer u using or going to na. Well I wish u the best of luck this time around try and remain positive, u can do this!
Strawberry


No I can understand why there is a problem with NA. There you will find the worst of the worst. The people there are are of a very low class. There are people there that even bring their young children which is so immorral. This was my experience at my local NA meetings. I have heard of older guys going to these meetings to prey on younger women and do all sorts of things to them because these young women were vulnerable. Plus NA doesn't help anyway. The success rate is very low. There are some states that have deemed NA meetings as unconstitutional when it comes to mandating parolees to these meetings. I would never tell anyone to go to NA. I would tell people to go to counseling, make new friends that are not drug addicts, exercise, take vitamins, eat healthy, get out there and do some socializing and keep your mind busy.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
Not to be all picky, but it's actually a bald-faced liar. Bald face refers to a lack of whiskers to hide your expressions behind. It's pretty archaic, but there it is.

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/b ... 889426.htm

Amy

Ah I see, to be fair it can be used both ways and most people seem to say "bold face"

From Wiki Answers
"The phrase can either be used as bold-faced lie, as in someone with a bold enough face to lie (bold meaning daring, or brazen) or someone bold enough to lie to your face; it can also be used as bald-faced lie, where the older meaning of bald (meaning uncovered or unconcealed) - the more correct usage with this term is bare-faced lie. Earlier editions of Merriam Webster define bold-faced as someone being bold or forward, with no relation to lies."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:53 pm 
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LoriQ wrote:
No I can understand why there is a problem with NA. There you will find the worst of the worst. The people there are are of a very low class. There are people there that even bring their young children which is so immorral. This was my experience at my local NA meetings. I have heard of older guys going to these meetings to prey on younger women and do all sorts of things to them because these young women were vulnerable. Plus NA doesn't help anyway. The success rate is very low. There are some states that have deemed NA meetings as unconstitutional when it comes to mandating parolees to these meetings. I would never tell anyone to go to NA. I would tell people to go to counseling, make new friends that are not drug addicts, exercise, take vitamins, eat healthy, get out there and do some socializing and keep your mind busy.



Oh WOW Lori, am I of a very "LOW CLASS" because I attend NA meetings? Am I also the "worst of the worst" too? I can assure you I am neither of those. I have also seen many mothers bring their children to meetings because they WANT TO BE THERE in the first place and some meetings I attend do provide child care for those mothers that really want meetings in their lives. Immoral you say? :roll:

I have also been "hit on" in meetings. But when that happens I stand up and say very LOUDLY for EVERYONE to hear: "hey buddy, are you here to get clean or remain clean or just here using meetings as a dating service"? That usually does it quite nicely. Or I move to another chair and tell one of the "older men" what the those guys are doing and they almost always take care of it! It's not usually a problem after that.

Sure there are addicts in meetings that have to be there to satisfy their probation or court order, but they have very little to do with why I'm there. That should never stop anyone from attending in my opinion.

And I have seen people selling drugs in the parking lot too. I either decide to go in anyway and check things out, or I go find another meeting as they are everywhere these days. I WANT to go to meetings so there is nothing that will stop me either!!!

NA and AA support group meetings have saved my life Lori along with Suboxone and my complete and total desire to get clean, and remain clean! Sorry to hear you feel the way you do about them! I could talk for hours giving you all the reasons why meetings are good, but I don't try to push it on anyone as it's not for every single person and I know that too.

I would ask you one question....I have read one of your other posts on the thread you created where you say you are NOT an addict in the first place. Well that's great and I'm very happy to hear that, but if your not and addict, or have never abused drugs, why do you go to NA meetings in the first place? Why bother if your not an addict? Only asking as I'm very curious.

There are usually other sides to everything.

Karen xoxo


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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