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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:35 pm 
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I delivered about a week ago and had to have an emergency c section when i was 9cm dilated. I had three different types of anesthesia within an hour. Epidural because i went to 9cm without anything and couldn't take it anymore... a half hour after i had it they told me my placenta was coming out first and needed a c section... they gave me spinal anesthesia to do the c section but it didn't kick in fast enough so they had to knock me out with general ... I suffered from a spinal headache for 4 days after having the c section. I was leaking spinal fluid and the pain in my head was horrible and i had to lay completely flat or else i couldn't even see. The nurses made me feel horrible for not being able to care for my baby. My husband ended up taking care of the baby while i couldn't move. now that i had a spinal blood cap done where they take the blood from my arm and put it in my spine i feel ten times better and am able to care for my baby.

When i found out i was horrified that i couldn't be taken off the medicine. Now nine months later my baby is in the hospital and on morphine. I swear im going to end up with postpartum just due to the fact of how the nurses treat me. Ive cried a couple times a day for the last 3 days and i just need to be home for a night. Im feeling guilty about that as well. They want me to stay in the hospital everyday, all day, all the time and be the one to take care of my baby. The nurses all treat me like crap. Everything i say is wrong and now that they have seen me with my other daughter i think they are starting to realize how capable i am for caring for a baby. Some of the nurses have gotten better, others will wake my oldest up in the middle of the night being unreasonably loud while shes sleeping. I hadn't seen my 16 month old daughter for 4 days after having the c section. Ive missed her so much. Ive been keeping her at the hospital with me now that im feeling better, but this is putting alot of stress on her and making her act out. She's never been away from me this long and even though she had a fun time at grandma's she was pissed that i havent been there. Im not about to leave her again. We've been there every minute of the day for a week now. I brought my oldest home today which we were supposed to go back but shes been sleeping since we got home and i dont want to wake her.

My newborn started on .17 morphine and they are weening her down daily. If she doesnt eat poop and go back to sleep they tell me she is in withdrawals. Im having a hard time dealing with this and i don't know how much time is ok to take to be home. not for myself but for my oldest daughter. ive been sharing a twin bed with my husband every night so there is enough room in our room for my oldest pack and play. My oldest daughter fell asleep on the car ride home around 5pm ... its an hour drive. when we got home she was still sleeping and we put her in bed and its 7 now and shes still asleep. I think i owe it to her to let her have her bed tonight. We will be back at the hospital by 8 am in the morning. I just called to check on her and they said she had a hard time when she woke up at 5 but she ate a bottle and went back to sleep so shes pretty much been sleeping since we left. I cant take it, everything she does they refer to being in withdrawals. I dont really know what my question is im just looking for advice i guess.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:25 am 
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1st I want to say I am so sorry you are going thru this. I have 4 kids, boys ages 5 & 3 and 11 month old twin girls. The twins were a month early so Ava was in the nicu for 8 days and Adelyn for 11 days. It is so hard to have your children in 2 seperate places and you feel so guilty because they both need you. I also lived an hour away from the hospital. I would wake up in the morning get ready and go spend a few hours st the hospital, then I would come home spend time with my boys and wait for my husband to get off work at 4pm. Then the 2 of us would go up to the hospital for a couple of hours, come feed the boys and put them to bed. After I was released from my c-section I only spent the night once at the hospital, the night before Ava was released they asked us to spend the night to make sure she was ready.

As far as how the nurses are treating you, that is unacceptable! You need to stand up for yourself and demand respect, tell them I did what I was told by my Dr . I would inform them if they do not treat you the same as the other patents then I will report you. You have enough on your plate with out rude bias judgemental nurses. Also because I could not be there all day, I would call and check on my daughters every couple hours and they were to call me immediately if anything changed. It is also pretty common from what I have read for nurses to see normal newborn behavior as withdrawl and I fear there may be babies weaned with morphine when it was'nt necessary. I am not saying your baby is one, obviously I wouldnt know.

Stand up for you and your baby, tell them you want all info and tell them you will no longer accept being treated like a third rate citizen. Congratulations! You have your precious baby you have waited so long to meet and my thoughts are with you and your family.

Please excuse my spelling and grammar errors as I an typing my babies keep grabbing the keyboard.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:08 am 
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How Ive been dealing with the nurses is keeping it short and simple. Or letting me do the talking aposed to my over protective husband. lol Hes not aloud to talk to the nurses cuz he gets so mad. Obviously if he has questions we talk about them and decide the best way to ask so we don't get treated like shit. It's like every comment we make is wrong like we've never had a baby before. They know i want records of every time a bottle goes in her mouth to when she goes to the bathroom... I keep a record of it as well. They put her on anti seizure medicine without me being there.. the one night i was gone. i asked for a hand out about the medicine as soon as she told me. I believe She didn't need to be on morphine, or at least get it as much as she does. Shes more addicted to that now then she was the subutex. this is outrageous. They said they put her on the new meds because they want to wein her down faster. Well they probably could have done that faster if they weren't counting everything that a normal baby does as withdrawals and using that to say we arent lowering her dose today. THANK GOD she's not colic or she would be in the hospital forever! Im Ok with her being on the anti seizer meds but it would have been nice for them to call me like i asked them too. They are also giving my poor baby morphine every 3 hours! COME ON NOW! even a drug addict doesn't take shit every three hours.

Those hospital floors are no place for a 16 month old who is just learning to walk. We came home today after my oldest fell on the floor all she was doing was trying to stand up and slipped. Thank god she caught herself ... i have gym mats on my floors in the living room to prevent falls and injuries i will not tolerate her getting hurt in the hospital. My husband also has work today so theres no way i can have them both in that tiny room. I dont have a license so it makes it harder. They expect me to be there 24 hours a day and i dont think they understand how hard that is with a 16 month old. If i could just bring her home it would be so much easier!! My oldest is one of the best behaved toddlers i have ever seen working with young children for the last 10 years and she even is a crank butt at that hospital. She gets woken up every time she goes to sleep either from the nurses or the newborn crying ... if we were at home shed be in her own room and the baby in ours she would never get woken up like that. Plus she would be fine all day watching her cartoons and playing somewhere safe!

Thank you for letting me know what you did to make it work. I really need to come up with a better game plan. Get on a schedule ... it may not be the same as what my daughter is used to but at least she will know what to expect.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:47 am 
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Hi there, how are you and your baby doing? I hope well. I just had a baby on subutex, my story is posted here and similar to yours in that I had to deal with some shitty nurses too and deal with them blaming every little thing my baby did on withdrawal even though a lot of the "symptoms" were normal newborn baby stuff. They wanted to start my baby on morphine less than 24 hours after I had her and I objected to that, she ended up not getting any, she was having some withdrawal symptoms but I do not believe it was bad enough for her to be given morphine. As hard as it was there were times that I really had to bite my tongue to keep myself from flipping out on the nurses but I kept my cool despite being post partum hormonal and I was able to stand my ground for myself and my baby in a respectful manner, I believe. It sucks but I just kept telling myself I had done nothing wrong, I did what was best for myself and my baby, I didn't know those people and would probably never see them again so I didn't care what they thought about me. I felt guilty too, it was hard, and I cried a lot too but it didn't last forever and things did get better as they will for you too!! Just want you to know you are not alone, stay strong, you sound like a good person and mother! Keep us updated, I'd like to hear how you guys are doing. Take care and congratulations on your new precious baby :)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:37 am 
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Congratulations on your new baby, and for the love of God please give yourself a break! Screw what those nurses say or think, they don't know you and it sounds like they don't know wtf they are talking about. I would do what Breezy said and communicate all your concerns (meds, dosing times, scores, etc) directly to the doctor. He or she can rein in the nurses if necessary.

And don't feel one bit guilty for bringing home your older baby so she can sleep in her own bed at night and you can get some sleep, too. You didn't choose to have the newborn stay in the hospital, and you need to recover physically from what you have been through too. Plus, you are going to need to be OK for when the baby does come home, and not be an exhausted stressed out burned out basket case. Do what you feel is appropriate to take care of you and your family and if they don't like it they can GF themselves. I'm sorry if I'm coming across angry, but quite frankly I'm sick of new mothers being treated like crap for being on Sub, when there are so many people out there pouring alcohol and god knows what other drugs into their system while pregnant and getting away with it. You are not and have not done anything wrong.

I hope you can get some sleep at home, and soon things will turn around and you will have the whole family together. I wish you all the best.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:27 am 
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Thank you everyone so much. looking back im so glad that is over! i later learned that my passive husband ( we got married in nov!!!) =) had anger problems and i dont take care of my baby lol accourding to the hospital nurses. well i looked that dcf lady in the face and said if you dont ask every single nurse in that hospital about me then you can not use one judgemental nurse and her friends to form an opinon about me. since when is it wrong for the daddy to help i mean come on i had just had a c section!!! ANYWAYS! they gave my clinic the wrong number to reach her back at so she haddd to open a comprehensive assesment cuz she hadnt heard from them. well guess what tomorrow i get my closing letter and im not getting a case opened up at all and will someday still be able to open a daycare. if they would have tried to open a case i would have made them bring me to court before i let them in my house again. im a damn teacher! my house is set up for children! i am ocd clean freak first of all so my house wasnt a problem, my oldest is the happiest baby ive ever seen and i do everything by the book so i dont have to deal with these ppl already!

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT this site is truley amazing informative and has been exstreamly helpful
i feel like i just passed the ultimate parenting test. and i feel more confident now then ever about that!
you guys are great
thanks again!


oooh did i add i got married to the father of both my children lol take that dcf haha we're doing great haha
They turned a happy time of having a baby into the worst experience ive ever faced. We have now turned it
back into something beautiful.
thanks again!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:43 pm 
I have an alternative perspective. This makes me so mad.

You said "she's more addicted to the morphine than she was the Subutex. Excuse me, but how do you know that?? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. You are actually trying to say that she is less addicted to the opiate she was fed everyday for nine months than she is to the micrograms of morphine she has been taking for a couple days. Dont think so.

You said you thought you were going to have "PTSD from the way the nurses treated me." I don't feel you can blame them. They did their job, which is weaning a baby born addicted to opiates off those opiates.

You said you didn't think she was in withdrawal or should be on morphine. Would you take Subutex for 9 months every day and then stop cold turkey and expect no withdrawal? No? Then why should a little baby?

I'm sure you are a fit mother, but this attitude of "it's not my fault my baby was born addicted and the nurses are mean" is tiresome.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:57 am 
ILMB, I don't fault you for having a baby on Sub, because you said you took the necessary precautions and it happened anyway.

I just think there is a price to pay if you are a daily user of opiates.
Sadly, this applies to babies in the womb as well.

I pray for the speedy recovery of your child, and I am sorry I did not say that right off the bat.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:46 am 
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Ironic, how do you know whether this lady's baby is more or less addicted to morphine than it was on buprenorphine? Have you seen the baby yourself? Have you assessed its withdrawal symptoms with your own eyes? Have you got measurements of its in-utero plasma norbupe levels?

Prove to us here that this woman's attitude is wrong, that it's "tireless". Can you prove that the doctors aren't overestimating her level of buprenorphine dependence and giving her too much morphine?

Wisest are those who know what they do not know. Tell us what you don't know in the context of what's been said in this thread, and read over all the assumptions you pulled out when you shot from the hip. Your lack of empathy astounds me, every time. You say this stuff to a lady fresh outta child birth? Where's your empathy? Empathy? Is that a concept you even understand?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:22 pm 
I didn't decide the child was opiate dependent. Doctors made that call.

I have a ton of empathy. Its for all the babies born in withdrawal whose mothers try to block the doctors from tapering them or claiming that CPS visiting them amounts to harassment. These babies don't have a choice.

Tearjerker, you often remind me that I don't know more than the doctors. I'm speaking with the assumption that the doctor was correct..and that humans (or animals) can't take opiates daily for 9 months without forming a dependence. I don't think this illogical in any way.

I don't fault this woman for having a "surprise" baby while on Sub. What is worrisome is that she can't see why doctors wanted to taper her baby and also can't see why CPS made a visit. That really frightens me.

Tearjerker, have you ever seen a baby in withdrawal? Go to your local pediatric ICU and take a look. Then we can have a conversation about who deserves empathy.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Yes a baby can be born with minor withdrawl or none at all after 9 months in utero. If you read thru the birth stories here you will find many examples of a baby being born perfectly fine. So far I have only heard of 2 or 3 babies that were kept and treated with morphine and in every case the nurses and or Drs were extremely rude to the mother and biased.

I have read a few accounts of Drs wanting to start morphine within the 1st 24 hours of life, the parents were able to convince them to wait and the babies were fine. Normal newborn behavior can be mistaken for withdrawl and in most cases the mothers were just asking for time to be sure their baby was in withdrawl prior to giving them morphine. A baby is often kept for weeks to a month to taper off morphine and keeping a baby in the nicu that long for no reason is a terrible thing to do to a newborn.

Also we are not talking about mom's taking illegal drugs thru out their pregnancy. CPS should have no reason to be involved because a mother was following Drs advice and taking a prescribed medication. These women also deserve to be treated respectfully by nurses and Drs. They have done everything they can to ensure their babies health and should have a voice in their child's care. What I find tiresome is biased nurses and drs that have their mind made up based on their bias of addicts.

I am not saying that's what happened here because I was not there so I couldn't possibly know, but neither were you.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Ironic wrote:
I don't fault this woman for having a "surprise" baby while on Sub.


Now that's shocking. Where did ilovemybaby ever say her baby was a "surprise"? This is typical Ironic fashion, right there, assuming that this woman's child is some kind of accident. Once again you've lumped someone on an internet forum into one of your preconceived pigeon holes of people you disapprove of, and gone on the attack. Is she just another one of those women who can't take responsibility for having a child dependent on Suboxone?

How do you know that?

You have NO idea how this lady is feeling. You have no idea how much responsibility she feels in her heart for the position her baby is in, how guilty she feels. You don't even have any idea what it feels like to be a mother, to have a child. As such, you have no idea the potential hurt your comments could inflict. But you say them anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:39 pm 
The withdrawal rate for babies on methadone is about 70%.

I don't believe these statistics exist for Suboxone.

Some babies exposed to opiates in utero are lucky enough to be born and not in w/d. Most are not so lucky.

And CPS doesn't care if the mother is taking prescribed narcotics or illegal ones, in the sense that they show up either way for a withdrawing baby. As they should. I'm sure they won't take the child if the drugs are prescribed and nothing else is amiss.

Babies deserve to be born in the safest conditions possible with the greatest chances for health and happiness. They don't get a say in what's coming through that umbilical cord.

Again, I don't fault OP for having a baby on Sub (provided it was an unavoidable accident, as the OP claims. Birth control CAN fail..though everyone on Sub should be minimizing their chances of a pregnancy). What bothers me is the attitude that CPS was there for no reason, or people were "mean," or that the baby shouldn't get a taper even though the docs believed (s)he should. I gotta ask the question as to whether OP would kick 9 months on Subutex cold turkey? If not, why should her baby have to suffer through it?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:24 am 
tearj3rker wrote:
Ironic wrote:
I don't fault this woman for having a "surprise" baby while on Sub.


Now that's shocking. Where did ilovemybaby ever say her baby was a "surprise"? This is typical Ironic fashion, right there, assuming that this woman's child is some kind of accident. Once again you've lumped someone on an internet forum into one of your preconceived pigeon holes of people you disapprove of, and gone on the attack. Is she just another one of those women who can't take responsibility for having a child dependent on Suboxone?

How do you know that?

You have NO idea how this lady is feeling. You have no idea how much responsibility she feels in her heart for the position her baby is in, how guilty she feels. You don't even have any idea what it feels like to be a mother, to have a child. As such, you have no idea the potential hurt your comments could inflict. But you say them anyway.


Try again. She DID say the baby was a surprise. "When I found out, I was horrified I couldn't be taken off the medicine."

Sounds like a surprise to me.

It certainly sounds like she can't take responsibility. She blamed the doctors and nurses and CPS but never said "In the end, this was my fault for having a baby born addicted."

Of course I have no idea what it's like to be a mother. I identify as a lesbian, but when I did sleep with men i made full use of a RANGE of birth control options. If I were sleeping with men now, Id be using condoms AND the pill. Anything to avoid this situation.

It is true that my comments could cause some hurt, but it doesn't make the point less true. This situation was not the fault of doctors, nurses, or CPS. You're right tear, I have no idea what it's like to be a mom. I do know that when I have kids, my life will be about keeping them safe, and that responsibility will start from the minute the child is conceived.

People on Sub and Done can be GREAT parents, but women shouldn't be giving birth while on these drugs. It causes an element of danger that is avoidable.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:43 am 
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If these mothers really knew what they were in store for, and how much harm all opioids can inflict on an infant, the discrimination and protective services, money on that most would not put their baby, their family, and themselves through all the risk & drama that ensues. But these mothers just don't know.

Most people on Suboxone outside of this educated internet-savvy group are blissfully unaware that it is, as you say, a potent opioid. They class it as something completely different to methadone & morphine. So many people leave their doctors office after induction completely unaware that Suboxone is dependence forming and has withdrawal symptoms, and if they do, they think the symptoms pale in comparison with the full agonists. Armed with this lack of knowledge, it would be easy for some mothers to be lulled into a false sense of security.

So when they see their newborn being force-fed morphine, a well known "potent opiate", when they've only been exposing their baby to the apparently milder Suboxone in utero, of course they go nana. But is it the mother's fault for worrying and blaming? Or is it the lack of disclosure / information provided? The belief that Suboxone is something different than it really is?

Myself I see a lot of merit in using morphine to ween infants off buprenorphine. Buprenorphine detox is quite unpredictable, whereas morphine is more straight-forward. The medical world has no studies in using buprenorphine in babies. Morphine has a proven track record for decades.

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I do know that when I have kids, my life will be about keeping them safe, and that responsibility will start from the minute the child is conceived.


That's all Ilovemybaby has been doing all along. Why do you think she came here?

People make mistakes.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:39 am 
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I know I am in the suboxone forum and maybe I should be asking this in the Methadone forum on this site, but I am trying to arm myself with the information before I have a talk with a friend of mine who....is scared right now to even looking into this for herself. I will approach her with it all when I see she is in a responsive place. I may post it in the methadone forum too and I know that is double posting but I see only a few of the members post in the methadone forum so I need a bit more exposure, so please excuse the double post because I think it to be real important to get the most info as I can.
I met this young lady 24 years old in our methadone clinic two years ago. We both were new and had to drive an hour one way to go to the clinic everyday in the dead of winter where snow was such a problem so we began riding together and my husband could always take us when the snow was bad. I am 48 years old so I kind of have tucked her under my wing and mothered her since then and now I love her as if she were one of my own. So needless to say when she came to me and told me she was pregnant, I was overjoyed with excitement because she has polycystic fibroids disease and was told she probably would never have children and although she seemed to be ok with this I mourned for her because there is no better joy than motherhood and grandmother hood.
She takes 180 mgs of methadone and well we have seen many pregnant girls well into their pregnancy continue on methadone and then have their babies and continue on after that. I have never asked any questions about how they did on the methadone while pregnant. What happened when the baby was born? Is the baby is addicted? Etc….Is a Test administered when a baby is born showing methadone in baby’s system? Do they report it to DSS? Can they take her baby? Her counselor told her to come off methadone would be more stressful on her and the baby. It may take longer than 9 months to effectively taper/detox her from 180 mgs per day. In fact he told her they probably are going to have to increase her. Without any angry/rude comments please can anyone give any feedback on this subject? I want to gather as much info as I can. Should she consider changing to suboxone? Now her counselor has told her it is safe. That if the baby shows withdrawals they can be treated effectively. Of course he did not tell her if DSS was going to be an issue etc…

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:02 pm 
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Finalyachance, I wish I could help you more with this situation. Some mothers who've been through this situation could certainly chime in and give a hand. Even though this is Suboxforum, and most of the experiences relate to Suboxone, the kind of reactions or discrimination she could expect from the doctors and nurses, and potential to report to DSS etc seems to be the same with methadone as with Suboxone.

I hope you find the answers you're after. I'm no expert on this stuff.


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