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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:54 pm 
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Yeah that's what I'm on now officially, 20mg diaz a day but I tend to take more at the beginning of the week just because it's there. I was on around 300-400mg and allowed to step down ALOT slower which I was thankful for. I got stuck on 80 for ages and now have been on 20 for a long time too, I've come off my anti depressants and anti psychs and have been unwell so I don't think he wants to push me, plus he knows I think about using a lot. I think about xanax and heroin all the time too which is a reason im hesitant to reduce my subs.

Anyway, 20mg of subs is better than 32 so that's awesome.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:14 pm 
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I agree with what TeeJay said. On a previous comment by me to French on another thread I forgot to ask what the drug history was. There is a huge difference between someone taking too many pain pills vs an addiction to heroin or some other very potent opiate. That, added to the metabolism of the person taking Suboxone, so bear with me if I made an incorrect comment.

32 mg`s is a good starting dose for anyone coming off of a strong opiate. Then cutting the dose in half will surely affect the patient in about three days, just like TJ stated. I have to remember that all addicts didn`t use like I did. Every person has a unique metabolism and reacts differently to each and every drug.

Thanks all, I just wanted to clear that up.

Merry Merry, & Happy Happy!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:20 am 
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hi all
I hope your all having a good holiday season :)
Just an update.


I have decided I am now going to go back to doing what my doctor has been treating me with. It was part of my disease to make a decision to cut my dose in half, just because I was worried that people on his forum were saying my dose is way too high.

French, take it slow. Don't try and hurry anything at all. You have the rest of your life to SLOWLY taper.
I have learnt the hard way, thinking that my addiction specialist and GP don't know more about addiction and dosing than myself or some members do.

I was still thinking too much about using, on 20mg and some may say its in my head - maybe, maybe not.
Its a really fkn hard time of year. Im finding it a total torture and have pity for myself like ' why cant I do things in moderation like others can!?' I hate this feeling

On the 30 Dec 2014 was my first day without alcohol, in 20 years. So yesterday it was 1 year. Yay.

Today im head fucked. Got a couple of bourbons. Im not sure if its a test or a treat. Either way, my year of sobriety has gone to shit. It didn't stop there. I thought if im going to have couple I my as well visit an old mate down the beach.
I have already fucked up so I may as well try and enjoy it. So bourbon, Xanax and temaz. And of course my daily dose of valium.

YES- tomorrow im going to be very annoyed at myself but what's done is done!
YES- tomorrow I'm sticking with the advice of my doctor and addiction specialist; from now on.

Tomorrow is another day.
Take care all

Mel


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:46 pm 
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Mel,
I hope you're ok. Alcohol, Xanax, temazepam and Valium (and bupe) are a lethal combination, and reading that got me very concerned. I don't believe our clean time ever "goes to shit". You had a year without alcohol and that still counts. That isn't erased because you had a couple of drinks. Today is a new day (it's the morning of New Year's Day there, right?), so you can chose to not use just for today. Today is all any of us really has.

We were just discussing in another whether AA or NA can be dangerous. This is how it gets dangerous for me. People drink or use a little and they think they blew their clean time, and then they go on a dangerous binge. I've done it myself in the past. No where in the Big Book of AA or the NA basic text does it talk about clean time & giving out keytags or coins. 12-step groups are supposed to be a place to share our experience, strength and hope to help each other solve our common problem. Period.

I hope you're safe, Mel. Saying a prayer for you.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:26 pm 
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Mel, you have me worried too. Keychain tabs and clean time are nice, but Lilly is absolutely correct! They are not what is real and meaningful about being in recovery. What it's all about is staying alive and living the best life you can. I hope you are with people who will take care of you tonight! You are so important to your family and friends and you're important to this forum! Please check in as soon as you are able.

Take good care and big hugs, Mel.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:14 am 
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Hi
Thanks for your concern but im fine.
The whole keychain thing doesn't happen I AA here in Australia but does in NA. I don't care for those now anyway. In 12 months of trying, I have only ever (which was recently) got up about 3.5 months clean time. I now know I under dosed really fast.
I had 2 nights home alone and just took advantage of that. As I was alone again tonight (last night) I had the same private party, just because I could and have been craving it so much lately . My partner is home this arvo so I will be back on track as Im highly discouraged to drink, let lone do the benzos.

I take full responsibility for my own actions and im not blaming my relapse on any advice here or members but, I was put off the dose that was working for me, due to the negative talk on this forum about 32mg.
I am a fast metaboliser and im on various medications, so looking back the high dose probably was helping me at the time and that time was not going to be for a very long period 2-3 months.
I had been to a reputable addiction specialist who advised my GP of the dose I would most likely require, the highest. I have autoimmune issues that they cannot sort out properly yet also. Using sub for pain relief (not that it was for that initially) is useless as when on 32mg, I was still in pain. That's yet to be looked at by another specialist, the 3rd in 4 months.

Looking back, it just really got to me and made me feel silly to believe all members advice about dosing. One member said no matter my background, 10mg should be enough. I wont mention his name but he quite harshly state to me the following. I don't know how to quote yet but this was part of his advice directed to me:

"I can assure you that you do not (this is about needing the 32mg) and its all in your head. 32 mg is off the charts high, unless taken for pain - although even then... If I could replace the 32 mg you are taking with 10 mg without you knowing, you'd feel no different. You have to do what you will along with your doc. Most do great on 8 mg or less".
That was out of a thread from Doximom.

So I just want people to realise everyone is different and not all members (even though they mean well) know the medical and physiological details of another person. Therefore some advice is incorrect.
That guy and some other peoples comments did not make me relapse but did get the ball rolling in my head about getting lower quickly in dose. I also just had the opportunity and took it, I admit. But had I been on the right dose, I may not have felt the need. We will never know.

Im now on 24mg, realising im a naive newbie and not do anything unless MY GP advises.

Thanks for your caring replies, I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. I have learnt a few important lessons in the past few days.
Take care everyone


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:14 pm 
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I'm sorry that whatever negativity you heard on this forum made you vulnerable to losing your way, even briefly. I will try to do a better job as moderator to make sure that you and people like you are not being bombarded by negativity and discourse that makes you doubt yourself. I have learned a good lesson too. I should have protected you from that and I failed to do so.

You absolutely did not deserve to be talked down to like a child. People here like to help others, but sometimes we are misguided by our own experience. Sometimes we become a little bit like know-it-alls. I hope that the person who wrote what you quoted will give some thought to how he or she came across. You deserve our support and best efforts, Mel. I'm sorry we failed you.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:58 pm 
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Mel first of all I'm glad that ur ok, nobody on this forum would ever wish anything negative like that to happen to u. The ppl who think/thought that ur dose was/is a high dose....aren't doctors. We're just addicts like urself who are expirienced with suboxone. If u felt like some of those suggestions were not good for u, then u should always listen to ur body and what it's telling u instead of someone who's never met u and doesn't know things that ur Dr knows about u. If someone on this forum suggests I drop my dose, not gonna happen. I'm only listening to myself because I live with my choices. Don't feel like u have to defend ur choices and how ur taking it, that's not fair to u at all. If ppl are making u feel uncomfortable with ur treatment then tell them to stop.

Relapse is something that happens unfortunately. I know you've mentioned several times what a rough time of yr this is. I'm just glad ur ok now. This forum is just ppl giving support and advice to ppl just like ourselves, everyone who answered ur posts were trying to offer opinions, take certain things from it and leave the rest because it doesn't mean they're correct and everyone is different, sometimes we forget that. There are a few ppl who can be a bit too harsh at times and I can understand how that can be intimidating. Again I'm glad and thankful ur ok and I truly am happy ur a member of this forum.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:23 pm 
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Mel,
Many people here have had experiences with Buprenorphine. Some feel strougly about different issues.

Dosing should and always be a matter between a patient and there Dr. It is good to know that you have indeed gone back to your dr and talked about your dosing.

This forum is a great place to learn but even better, the questions and examples that people read here can be taken back to our own drs for there opinions. Listening to our docs is part of recovery.

Im sorry your having a tuff go of it right now. Being and getting stable is the most important part of this treatment. No matter what the dose.
Earlier, two week ago, I know I said a drop from 32 to 16mgs was very doable, almost painless. This has been my experience and the experiences of many addicts ive had contact with over the last 5 years. However many are not helped by lower doses for there tolerance in the begining was just to high. Some never can get stable on bupe.
You have been stable, it works for you thank god.
I read where your not crazy about being on Sub but also know it is saving you from useing now. Stay stroug Mel, you can do this. You have over 3 months clean off opiates. Thats huge in my eyes. Keep going. It's early.

One more thing, if the support of the rooms of NA helps you with the loneliness of early recovery by all means get back in there. I think read on another thread of yours that you liked and needed them. Maybe more now then ever. Ive reread this entire thread looking for negitive comments, i didn't see any here although there may have been as you quoted from another thread. We don't want to lose members here. I hope you will be back soon and again I highly recommend the Talkzone and the Users Guide by Dr Junig. There both very helpful.

Hang in there Mel, and Happy New Year!!!

Razor.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:06 am 
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Hey

Amy- thanks for your lovely response but you don't need to apologise, no individual intentionally made me suddenly react.

Razor- thanks for your kind words. I do still attend AA and NA very regularly, like 4 times a week. If you see some other threads, there is a big message against being on a dose of 32mg.

JennJenn- Thank you and I hear what your saying about listening to my body and my doctor. When I stopped using I couldn't trust anything my body or mind was telling me so no I didn't listen to myself.

There are several members within different threads who say 32mg is way too high, regardless of doc, length of addiction etc. I thought I was being wiser to believe the many clean members messages about my dose rather than my own doctor and specialist.
Its just hard for someone like me who has no prior knowledge, to decipher the truth; when my doctors say one thing and a lot of members on this site say pretty much the opposite. That's why I thought maybe Australians do things differently than in America.

All it comes down to is, I put the substances in my mouth, not anyone else. I just think for very new members, some discussions can be misleading.

I do really appreciate your responses and help.
Thank you


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:32 am 
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Onya Mel. Remember that your relationship with your doctor trumps your relationship with the people on this forum. Anyone who claims to know better than your doctor is foolish, because really your doctor knows your medical history much better than anyone else on this forum.

It's an important lesson I think in how opinions can lead people astray, be they on internet forums, in recovery support groups, friends, family. In the recovery game you really gotta familiarise yourself with what works for YOU, and don't let other people dictate what your needs are based on what worked for them. If NA works for you then don't let my opinion on it influence you.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:18 pm 
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By Mel " I just think for very new members, some discussions can be misleading."

You are correct, and this is where the other mods and I can do a better job. Even if we personally feel that 32mg is far too high of a dose we need to remember that there is an important trend that people typically follow when they are first on bupe. Typically, the original dose is high, especially when the doctor deems the addict a tougher case. In other words, the addict could be coming from a high level of heroin use, or they could have expressed major doubt in their abilities to remain in recovery. After several months of use, a lot of us feel like we can taper to a lower amount and we do. However, we have to protect the folks that are newly on bupe from anyone who questions their dose. I know that some doctors follow a formula that is outdated or dictated by what RB first told them in their 8 hour session. But we can't assume.

And we can't forget this little nugget that I found in one of my pharmacology textbooks: Up to 20% of opiate users have genetic defect in the way they metabolize opiate medications. So some people are always going to need a higher amount of medication than most others.

I know our moderators, and none of them want to see this happen to someone else, Mel. So we will be "Johnny on the spot" if this happens to another newbie. We always appreciate the opportunity to do our job better.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:06 am 
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Hey there,

I just want to say thanks for your concern and support. I appreciate your messages a lot.
Im back on track and doing well.

Thanks and Mods, you are doing a great job!

Mel


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:20 pm 
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How are you going Mel?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:47 am 
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Hey TeeJay

Im doing ok. Thanks for asking.

I have had some very strong triggers in the past 2 weeks but have been strong and not picked up.

This summer time is always a hard time. I think us Aussies are known for our drinking culture, around the world, and its known to be consumed like coffee almost lol.
Anyway hope your all we.. Im so tired I will talk when im feeling a bit better

Thanks heaps for asking :)


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