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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:33 am 
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In the year 2000 (no drugs) had vertigo, double vision, severe - and went to Emergency Room. Turned out to be eye nerve that would heal. Idiotic prescription for Ativan (powerful benzo) for 1 year. Stupidly took it because good for sleep. Some months later tried quitting and found "Hell". No way to quit 3mg (I thought) and kept taking for 9 years, only recently eliminating by step-down and valium help. GABA SYSTEM IN NO WAY HEALED YET, IF EVER.

For some years going to work OK - but gradually the quitting led to job loss, useless retirement, and isolation.

Increasing ortho pain let to another bad Rx for Oxycotin and Oxycodone total over 100mg on initial visit. (to addict?)-- had used in past at 5 mg. Stupid to take, but trusted Dr. why? This soon led to tolerance and wasted time money and health picking up Rx at any cost --JUST TO AVOID HELLISH W/D . For last 2 years life has no quality and housebound semi-existence all there is. Only MORE oxy can now approach feeling"normal" which is now GREAT. But this is now very rare. Since I cannot keep increasing and only use prescription -- I am trying to taper off - but almost any increase creates bad w/d -- and running out is not tolerable at all. Cannot live with that.

New place more establishment - took over but suggested 1mg oxycodone down per WEEK - and this has been awful. I convinced them to make it every 2 weeks, but this is making things worse - meaning meaning no FOOD, SLEEP, Pleasure or anything to make life something to do. Getting bad fast -- many symptoms head pressure - sweating - cold - etc etc and I I can do now is sit -- getting to be sitting and doing nothing but researching some way to get better. Am losing hope.

This new place mentioned Suboxone - but I do not know just what they mean. I know I cannot so this rash step-down of 1 mg per week. Currently 30 mg morphine sulphate (substituting for oxycontin now gone) and decresing 1 5 mg or less of Oxycodone.

Sleep is very bad -- drugged if at all -using up Oxy. Running out taking all away in a world I cannot stand much more or. Like to keep trying, but not sure what to do.

GETTING BAD FAST HAVE NEW DR. DONT KNOW WHAT TO ASK TO DO. SOMETHING - PLEASE.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:44 am 
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I have responded to your other threads as well but this gives a lot more information that is needed to give a good reply. It sounds like you might be addicted versus just dependent but I am not entirely certain. It sounds like you probably haven't always taken your script as prescribed, that you have run out early in the past, that you have increased dosage over time (although this is a normal side effect of narcotics). I am hoping Hatmaker might post something for you on the difference between addiction and dependence because I am 40 minutes late getting in the shower this morning and don't have time.

But I think you should talk to the doctor about the suboxone. If they suggested it, they did so for a good reason. I think you should be honest with them about what you are feeling right now. I think you should discuss with them short terms detox versus maintenance. Ask them if they think you are just dependent or if they think you are an addict. I suspect that they aren't seeing the objective medical findings to continue prescribing narcotics to you so they have to help you get off of them one way or the other. You may very well have had an irresponsible physician who didn't see the warning signs that this was becominig a problem but I also don't know how you presented yourself to continue recieving a script you maybe didn't need medically? Not sure.

Welcome to the forum! The people here are amazing. You will receive tremendous support and information from these people. They are always willing to help. I have to go to work, but I think you will get what you need by the time I get home this evening. I wish you the best.

Take care............there can be an end to your suffering sooner than you think. Hang in there.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:45 pm 
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There is a need for pain control as I find out when this prescription is reduced 15 mg oxycodone every week or two.

This reduction is at my request because drugs are not working. Only thing that works is more -- and yes, to a min degree that trap of coming in early to increase dose has been a factor in last 5 months. Still, an even taking does not reach beyond the tolerance to stop ortho pain and feel normal.

New pain clinic forgot about real ortho damage -- thinking my request to a step-down was the only thing there.

Very easy to just do this - for the doctor. But I find this step down (from 7 tabs oxycodone 15 mg and 3 tabs morphine sulphate 30 mg) ---note: the morphine sulphate is new - replacing years of 15 mg oxycontin 3 tabs. No good reason - cheaper.

All dilemma now is all sources of pain wreck sleep - eating well - and activity. These are so bad - just sitting now, that ortho damage increases with doing nothing. Need pain control to move and think.

I am looking into talking with another clinic. My plan is to increase these drugs to a point where I can move and function and do not get depressed profoundly. From here a slower step down of ocycodone could happen.

This is the system I used to get off the awful Ativan --it worked -- if in fact the
GABA damage will repair.

But I know -- this last best chance (really)-- will hit a point where the step-down feels very bad ---- with these drugs, and my now damaged state of health - and pain -- where just quitting is not possible. I do want to quit slowly.

Missing information is about Sub and Bup. For me no illegal or misuse anything (except early visit) -- all Rx. I do not want to be on anything - not even Sub for years -- enough drugs!!!--- But if it could help this more sane step-down so it is doable --that would be a great thing.

I assume stopping the Subtox (no naloxone I hope--not needed)-after one month is not hard. AND MAY HELP.

TRUE? ALMOST NO QUALITY OF LIFE LEFT HERE -- JUST SIT NOW - READING HARD - NEED TO BE MOVING OR THIS WILL BE THE END. MUST AVOID A DISABILITY WHERE CARE IS NEEDED -- WILL NOT, CANNOT TAKE THAT - YET WITH LOW LEVELS OF OXY AND A DREADED TRIP (AGOROPHOBIA -- YES) --- BP CAN BE 160/120 OR WORSE. I KNOW HOW VULNERABILITY TO SEIZURE AND STROKE HAPPEN.

Does the Sub method offer me any help or hope in what I want to do. thanks very much Hope this added information makes it more clear where I am. At the too low 100 mg total - all is dizzy, walking on cotton, head pain, tinnitus, so a great temptation to overtake anything for a brief visit to the real world I used to know. some of this could be from the Ativan damage healing. Depression. Ortho pain does get very much worse when the drugs are tapered ---

only very rarely now is there a build-up in my system where the buffers work and pain and dizzy feeling subside - it is wonderful and so rare. But ---98% bad is not worth doing. Hard to counter and live with.

Have noticed physical problems get bad fast, and people less likely to help as you need help more. Just wondering if there is any help in this mess that Sub could offer. thanks very much.

S


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 Post subject: when to switch to Sub
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Was wondering if it is reasonable to expect doc to use the Subutex (sp) - and not use naloxone if there is no chance of needing the naloxone --- access is just and only Rx. I have read there are side effects of naloxone alone and why ingest it for no reason?

But mainly- I have been on essentially oxycodone 15mg x 5 and morphine sulphate (30mg) x 3 --- which had been most of time oxycontin 15 mg x 3 for a long time (2 years plus). I think the morphine is weaker and makes life more intolerable, but reasoned it is cheaper and eliminating it might be easier if not used to it.

How far should one taper this before switching to Sub if the intention is to use the Sub as a way of getting through the initial one month of detox. Can one quit a large amount like the above, or must it be down to switch to Sub.

The injuries are still there - but my experience with narcs having to remain constant ---and tolerance -- makes me want them gone and I will deal with the pain other ways. I know the w/d part of oxy is awful -- have experienced initial days of it and am now frail enough that I am looking for any help.

I am really tired and depressed of feeling sick depressed and dizzy all the time and just staying at home. If possible I want my life back. I will not get into a debate --but it is my hope that Sub will help me do this hard thing.

The ortho pain was bad --but not bad enough for this medication. This prescription was ill advised and for money - not health. Very unethical -- should have been 5 mg and up later --maybe. Greedy b---------out there. MD money delivers

Thanks for help on learning about this.

S


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:18 pm 
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Scruffy,

I am very sorry you are feeling so terrible and seemingly anxious right now. It also sounds like you may be suffering from some isolation. This is not uncommon for someone who has gotten into this position and I hope you can just hang in there a little longer.

In terms of the subutex, I think that the doctor isn't likely to give you that right off because they worry about diversion, but the naloxone really doesn't cause side effects for most people and you can actually spit out the naloxone and still get the effect from the suboxone if you prefer. Naloxone tends to cause some people headaches when they first start suboxone, but then later those go away (like a week or two) for most. Personally, I have been on suboxone for 3 years and do not have a single side effect from it that I do not prefer. It feels like I am not taking anything at all.

What kind of ortho problem do you have if you don't mind me asking? What are the current objective findings?

You have already noticed that your pain increases when getting off the oxy. I stated in your other thread that this might not be an actual pain level once you aren't in withdrawal. Withdrawal makes everything hurt worse. It actually doesn't sound like you are in total withdrawal, just maintaining at that beginning phase that makes you feel miserable and unhappy. Ugh! I do not envy you.

You don't have to taper down off your current drugs to get on suboxone but you do need to be in withdrawal when you start taking it. So you will have to go about 24 hours +/- in order to start the suboxone. But suboxone takes away ALL withdrawal symptoms almost immediately so it isn't that hard to make yourself do. You stabilize on a dose within about 2 weeks.

I think you should really talk to the doctors about what they think is best for you. Suboxone is not a magic pill that you take for a month, suddenly stop, and you avoid withdrawal. Such a drug would be awesome however. You would have to taper off the suboxone as well. The difference is that it is much easier to taper off suboxone. It sounds like you are merely dependent and not addicted so you may be able to use suboxone for short term detox and then be done with it. Let the doctors help guide you with that. If that was the case, I would say you would want to take the smallest dose of suboxone possible to alleviate the withdrawal and then taper quickly allowing yourself to feel a little bad a day at a time to drop the dose. I have heard other people doing this for dependency and it works just fine.

Your options are limited really and tapering off full agonist narcotics is really almost not possible for most people and it sounds like this would be the same for you.

Take care!
Cherie

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:45 am 
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Cherie,

Thank you so much for your informative and thoughtful post. You really have a sense of my situation more than almost anyone these days -- however, great wife, which means I am still typiing ie alive. One reason to think against addiction is that both of these problems were amazingly doctor caused. I was not out looking for anything. As a matter of fact the initial Rx from hell was Ativan - given when I specifically asked for "5 or 6 valium" pills after an ER experience unrelated to any drug. I did not know what Ativan was ---- so stupid to think a small pill of 1 mg could do that. So I was blindsided mainly by these things --- not seeking.

On the other hand --the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA is central in much of this and the Ativan dowlregulated this intricate system for 9 years.

The ortho pain is real-- significant mri damage can be seen on right hip and knee - hard to walk - probably from a horse fall some time ago - now arthritis too there. I just know they would muck it up if I allowed artifical joints ---very unlikely to make it through. I am also not young, like so many I see on the net and computer -- that vital recovery stuff is gone now.

I have suffered from a very bad doctor. When I went there 30 months ago I was working on the Ativan step-down and was at 6 mg - and always dizzy - but functioning. Just hated the dizzy unstable feeling --- which is still here. At that point he allowed 8 mg of ativan and the initial oxy Rx was over 100 mg. It is a sleezy strip mall setting -I should have known better but this helped so much at first I wanted to believe the Doctor.

So now the ativan is gone, only 4 mg of valium remain of that (I used the Valium substitution method) and 1 mg of Ativan is 10 mg of Valium. I don't know what to do with this. It is being handled by a good psychiatrist who will not deal with schedule drugs - but did the last of the Ativan taper and we still have these 4mg valium. It helps with sleep a bit and anx-- and I have seen some used during detox - so not sure to eliminate it or keep.

So----this has left me sitting alone most of the time feeling bad - the previous summer was a bit better and it is hope against hope that if I can eliminate these Oxys I can get back. One thing -- if I could every moment would be a wonderful miracle -- because those few hours of normal that come each month are gold. Just a quiet life - without all the tinnitus, pressure, pain, etc. I am not really sure where the awful feeling that make you want to get rid of yourself come from- but I do know that they can be eliminated by upping the Oxys.

It is just hard to know how long recovery takes the GABA system. It complicates everything.

I am currently looking for a good pain doctor that uses drugs -- I did recently see one, but he was too young and not enough time to know pain. Too arrogant and not listening. He wants to eliminate 1 pill (15 mg) of oxycodone each WEEK.
He asked how much I was taking (to be beyond tolerance -- feel ok_) I guess --- I wrongly said what the standard Rx is- which has been too low. A bad mistake I think. I have been taking more up front for the past 5 months out of some despiration -- so having less each week is not going well. I see him every 2 weeks - and the last visit was so dizzy and awful I barely got through. These are not lasting the week.

I am trying to get an appt. with a better doctor and might be able to work with him on a better plan. Do you think I should try to get this doctor I have to change the initial dose if we are going to cut like that? Since the morphine Sulphate is new and a constant for now -- perhaps this could be upped. But I am afraid he thinks we can just cut away ----- he thought my 90 day program to eliminate all oxy was slow. A doctor friend of mine thinks -- if we are are on a weekly Rx and it is controlled -- who cares how long. I have a doctor crisis.

This puts things out of control -----right now. I do not have enough to be even for the next 2 days. they will have less again and I might get to that no sleep visit to hell which indeed scares me. It is so bad after this damage --- I would not live through cold turkey. For sure. It is so bad I would have to make sure of that ----as bad as that sounds --when oblivion sounds like an option things can be scarry.

But--in actual behavior - far from that I have put up with depression and pain as the main parts of life and isolation that it is hard to envision recovery. I am trying. Communications like yours and my Dr. friend (not here in town)--Margaret - make this seem possible through communication. So many close calls -- no margins for error.

As for now I intend to eliminate the opioids -- slowly if possible -- using Sub for short term. I cannot see myself maintained on anthing more ---- need to end these. But I think Bup could help me get through that month or so at zero.

Thanks for your understanding - it is a great help. The care, and info are great - like Mana in this environment.

thanks.

S


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 Post subject: key factor
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:01 am 
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It seems that it will be critical to know if this is addiction or dependence. Chronological factors---

1. did smoke earlier - but quit.

2. Alcohol ignored when others doing it - college etc.

3. No illegal drug use at all

4. Current drugs more blindside from providers -- lied to also when I asked about them.

5. Was stable on Rx for years -- but last 5 mo finish early -- tolerance

6. Complex neural (damage) now with Ativan downregulating GABA

It is hard for me to tell. Would be good to have an idea if I can get apt with good dr. here in town. If just dependent, my plan to eliminate opiates and use Bup short term seems to have a better chance.

Also----GABA has to restore itself - hope it has been. AND endorphins need to come back. This will be slow rather than fast which argures for a slower taper. I think I plan to taper the oxycontin until it is gone. This will leave 90 mg of morphine sulfate, new to me ---- which perhaps could be quickly stopped and Bup started.

I was able to eliminate 8 mg habit of Ativan --- a real killer. But- it took its toll. This did not leave me healthy.

note: All of this would seem to argue for some laws about "best practice" - using computers. In critical areas like these drugs the prescriber would need to follow the best practice or write a note on-line to regulators explaining why best practice was not followed. How much suffering would this eliminate. Would have changed my life -- this idiot would probably never try to write a note saying he was prescribing Ativan for a year for ER anxiety. Then it would not have happened. Amazing.

Prevention -- drives me crazy to think about it - what might have been.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:38 am 
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Scruffy,

I won't get into all the details of addiction versus dependence but it really hinges on whether or not you are taking the opiates to feel better mentally versus just developing a tolerance to them and using them for pain. Your MRI findings do sound significant so it makes me wonder whether or not the suboxone would work for you or not. I am thinking maybe not but again, that is very hard to tell. Have you been recommended for joint replacement? I have seen several people go through this and be entirely thrilled with the results. They generally reserve jont replacement for older people.

I would agree that you have a doctor problem, but the young guy doesn't sound so bad. I think you have to be 100% honest with him. Part of the problem here I think might be that you feel bad for over taking the prescription and you really shouldn't because it is a side effect of the medication. It depends on HOW much you are overtaking it and generally people who are merely "dependent" versus "addicted" just tell the doctor the meds aren't working as well and allow the doctor to up the dose so they don't go through it too fast. For some reason, you seem to feel guilty about that. Has any doctor ever told you that a natural side effect of narcotics even when used for pain causes increase in tolerance to the drug? They should be telling you this.

If it were me, I would set up 2 or 3 appointments in a row with pain doctors or sub docs. I would be 100% honest with each of them. Tell them the entire situation. Don't be afraid to tell them about running out early. See how you are treated. The one that treats you with respect, listens, and who explains medically what is best for you so you can envision what the plan is and it sounds doable to you is the one you should pick. You are at a crossroads. You have several complicating factors which might make methadone a better option for you. You may also be best off having a surgery before getting off the oxy. You don't have a simple case and you need someone who is going to work with you. They need to explain what you will do for pain if you went on suboxone or if you get off narcotics all together. They need to be able to tell you comparitively if other people with the same type of findings are or are not generally able to live a good life without narcotics for pain control.

I definitely became addicted to my pain meds and did get narcotics from a friend. So I crossed that line into addiction. But my addiction didn't make my pain go away. It also makes my situation complex because as you know, if pain levels get too high for too long and are left uncontrolled, depression begins and makes life not worth living. Doctors tend to avoid complex situations where they don't have answers and they do tend to neglect the patient in my opinion. I know my needs have been neglected repeatedly when the doctors don't have the answers. So I understand some of your frustration.

Keep doing what you are doing in terms of researching suboxone. Many doctors don't know much about it and some doctors have a stigma against it. The more you know, the better you will be able to determine which of these doctors has a clue as to what is best for you or not.

Read as much as you can on this site. There is a lot of very accurate information on here. Look up all of Dr. Junig's posts. If you have trouble figuring out how to do that let me know.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:52 am 
I can tell you first hand, methadone works wanders for cravings and most definitely is a really strong pain reliever. It has a very long half life just like suboxone and is simply great. I am beginning to think that may be the route best suitable for you, in my opinion. Im not sure suboxone is gonna work for your degree of pain. However as i said, i know methadone will and at the same time it will help with cravings.


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 Post subject: too late??
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:50 pm 
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Thanks for responses. This is typical for morning - forced sleep (used extra meds to escape and sleep) - unsettling dreams and then that awful waking - realizing how bad. All nausea and pain throughout and tinnitus ringing and dizzy with weakness. The trouble with most plans -- no energy to even go there. Had appt wit psychiatrist who helped with the Ativan- dizzy in his office (always) - but go through it - decided to keep the 4 mg of ativan steady when other things are changing.

Could be something - the val. or nothing to care about. It is 2% of the benzo thing left. Trouble with going somewher to get something each day is I have sometimes only gone out once a month - for an appt. Awful- cold and dizzy riding -- not going and doing.

Methodone would work if it were in my bathroom - but I cannot go get things.

I think the Dr. did not get it right - the amt I said was well below tolerance. It is ------like being in w/d all the time

waiting (like now) through days at the end of the week with not enough. 2 day wait now will be awful till Monday. But choice then is to overtake and maybe feel ok for a few hours. Then back to misery. Probably should be taking more - but hard to get (never had option to get more at any source) always the overtaking at beginning.

Feel far too weak for surgery. Pretty convinced this is indeed not something I can get through. But keep trying - morning the wrong time to think. Thanks for input. Being over 55 this all is much harder.

Also cant get rid of this sinus type swelling - cutting off air at night - just a cold? Seems worse than that and will not go away. I think in a perfect world a doctor would visit here and leave enough Meth to control pain - I have heard it is a good pain killer. Derpression -- it seems a normal response to this. If this were like before I think there would be no depression. It is depressing now.

thanks- all of this helps

S


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 Post subject: concrete plan for now
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Hello- It is bit later now. Mornings are very hard. This is when it sinks in that just "mucking through" is far from living what was once simple life. With internal termperature not regulated, tinnitus, very weak, head pressure etc. Just having a conversation would be very hard. Isolation is the result. Feeling like this needs to be a phase, not a new reality, or one is really in trouble.

This is where the urge to take a pill come in now. Some symptoms leave and the feeling of being able to deal with time and enjoying something comes back and causes needed hope.

If I took quite a lot of oxy (which I never can do) I would feel so much better - that the illusion that a cure had happened would be there. Only to be followed by a worse crash from this.

However --- I intended to write this post about pure reality and what to do in the near future. First, I need to deal with having little med until Mon. I now do space this out because of an experience having "nothing" which was a pure trip to hell. Doing this in varying degrees feels like doing scores of w/ds which should be done just once I would hope. This must be bad.

back to brass tacks -- I just wrote a letter to a Doctor I think is very good ---physical medicine and pain control. He has a waiting list but I asked for an early consult because it feels serious. Other dr. of mine wrote to him also asking for asap consult.

Feeling this sick already thought I better get it written. That is one hope.

This new dr. I do have (young) at bigger pain clinic. He writes two scripts for 2 weeks - and pharmacy gives one and one the next week. visits every 2 weeks-- rapid taper from the number I gave him.

You are very insightful Cherie -- the number I gave was what the unchanging script was indeed --- but not what I take!
For some time (trying to survive) the real number is over one third higher, because coming in early was allowed at the pill clinic. Thus sticking to a strict schedule with reductions results in about half of what is not even adequate to feel normal and cut pain.

The next few days may be hell - and I have noticed physical things that are dangerous -- racing heart, temp deregulation, and then nights of no sleep. I don't think anyone can do this a lot.

I can hope the letters cause a wonderful doctor to intervene quickly and break the cycle. I would up the amount beyond tolerance and then taper down --- which I did with Ativan. At lower levels, consider Sub.

But if I end up at the same dr. office who is invested in his rapid taper plan --- this will just not work. I wonder if my theory that we must be higher to start is really true - it seems right because the other is so imposible.
I could call and try to get an emergency appt and just hope he listens. This seems like a better idea ----- because at the end of next week I could be so dizzy and sick a rational discussion would be much harder. But ---I guess this is really basic -- at an early meeting ---what do I tell him I want??


Early or reg appt --- having given him "acceptable" info that is wrong --- what then to really ask for??

Getting hard to think about

Just going to the Dr. appt yesterday eve --walking from car to office was an exercise in surrealistic unstable (walking on trampoline) experience - every time I have sat in that waiting room it is anxiety - near shaking, and weak dizzyness.
That could even be GABA trying to recover from earlier insult. Being dizzy and head pressure a big part of benzo reduction.

Well, these are all the numerous details of this saga - and I appreciate anyone taking this all in - and getting it. Quite amazine when compared with comprehension of most doctors I know.

Given all of this -- what to do this week toward what end that miight work.

If new doctor responds -- just pure honesty and see.

But if I am at early appt with current dr. ------what do I want indeed.?

thanks very much, talking about this feels like not giving up.

S


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 Post subject: thank you
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Just a thank you to Cherie and other posters.
I see much of what I was asking is in most recent response --

although --this town is a bit small for multiple doctor visits, but am making the one I can.

and I think methadone is impossible because, as I understand it, you have to go there. In another life, I volunteered at a methadone clinic in Wash, D.C. and I am sure I did not get it at all ----- but tried with practical things to help.

Looking at 2 days with little to take -- the panic response starts --what to do with that is really hard. One time it was so bad I did try ER --- they had no help at all. They were under the impression I had no insurance so I got a sense of what that was -- just go away and die. With insurance I wonder what they might have done.


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 Post subject: running out
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:26 pm 
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This has happened so much it feels like it is worse each time. Have some 75mg oxy and 60mg morphine sulphate to last 48 hrs to Rx, I remember saying never zero it is just too bad. way too bad. but panic sweating tinn-altered smell and taste and the worst feelig with no name. I know no tricks and have no contacts to change this-- would if I could.
Such hell -- On Mon might try to get appt and go in --and say this new thing is not working because it is too low - cannot take it. Not much of a plan. It is so different than life - awful. Probably endorphins would flood out at this - but I have none because of oxy. Waiting for them to come? This is not right.

S


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:49 am 
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Oh Scruffy! I know that feeling. The altered tase and smell feeling. Guh............... It just is the WORST feeling and you would do ANYTHING to get rid of it. That is EXACTLY why you can't taper off full agonists. You can't taper off oxy. I really hope you can get an earlier appointment. I also believe you can get methadone from a regular doctor. You dont have to go to a methadone clinic to get it when prescribed for pain I don't think. But I don't know much about methadone either so hopefully someone else could help with that.

I will tell you that if you called even the doctor with the taper plan and told him what you are experiencing, at a minimum they ought to be able to call in some clonidine and other comfort meds. You have nothing to lose by telling him what's going on. You will at least know what his opinions are and whether or not he will be helpful or not. If nothing else, he ought to give clonidine to help with the increase BP / heartrate issues and that will help your anxiety. He should be able to script out a few other things as well.

You really have nothing to lose and I really hope you can get in somewhere ASAP. If nothing else you can try a local detox clinic or the ER and ask for comfort meds at least. I hate to see you go through withdrawal for days. That just SUCKS worse than anything.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:21 am 
Yep, methadone can be prescribed by a regular physician for pain only. You have to get it at the clinic for addiction. I almost guarantee you that would possibly give you the pain relief your needing and help with possible addiction or whatever it may be.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:36 pm 
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well sure cant go anywhere = found sleeping pill to help -b t soon waake with shqkes ad bad pain and tinn and awfu rast -- tlike you dont get betterfrom this -- wondee ifI just took nothing a all going soewere out --- no er for me - joke. If ai get tthet refill it wil be all over againf for a few days -with strp down crzqy dr. not goon. S

should be SOS as initials I guess thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:50 pm 
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for the loongest tinme now I HAVE been living with a standard Rx - always the same ---only mor lately if go in early ----but always crisis at end of mol More strict place it is worse. so bad last night why do this-----before has been an evern worse hell ---but then get them----like tomorrow for a full one or two days a month sanity and feeling like before --ond do it agqin----what if all thisw being iin some sgage of detlx being theere som much counted countd --- and If i just stpped everhthng wha mighg happen --muxt have hapened before... othe health probs coming from this so what to lose. wonder f i shoufl try t culd try nothing and ss sS just seems so impossibeto travell now for ayop option. no health fo so so oong


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:28 pm 
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little later. did not see how getting up was gong to help ----did not take those last three pills left. for so many years now going through something and then the reward -- now so far under toleracnce it takes a lot to get to that line that was normal life -----whaht a joy that was normal things. now it is a t eve reward after spending all the time and money ----what is the scam here ------first the drug cos --- big pharma, this stuff is number one profit maker on wall street ---big losses incourt --hush --gag order. tens of millions of fine. seems they lied to doctors and falsified research on bezos and oxy --marketed todrs drs. ----drs. like the arragement -- get some of that detox money in general office with Sub trainiing ---get some of that psych money in with prozac ---local guy now a psychiatrist with a pen. Pain Cliinic. indeed. Hd seen psychiatist befor for 5 mg oxy -worked and quit --how about 100 ng iof oxys on firt visit and what I also had -- full dose of benzo 8 mg.

Most of the drug prob is in the med establishment -- not on streets. new suicide data shows it -

anyway ---I was ust wonder really what would happen If I took nothing. Did any of that W?D count -- or rather ---since I am "never high" and fundtioning just unde tolerance. ---what about zero. what good is a few more days of fiction. I need more now and have been given less as if i can taper the oxy the new morphone, the remaining valium --


and then I learn thet Sub is for pretty much e/d/ pain and not a good pain releer -- it has a high affinity for the receptors and will kick H out - bt is weak actor. mteh --the realthing m sure goes in like a true narcotic. thenhwhat -- meth for life.

my uncle loved the outdoors -- swet upon with illness and shinglews in the eyes- drs finally gave meth. they told me that semed to work ffor the pain ---the he shot himself with his rifle out in Montana wher the normal use to be so good.

mad enough to try never partaking of thekjunk ---awful lot for al small reward. tired of being trained seal looking for medications from "g d doctord" and you friends on wall street andi in big pharma. ------you need a bigger yacht!

S


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 Post subject: nothingness
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:48 pm 
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I guess ai am prob not a sub patient. This advice has been a great help. Tomorrow am will be a one week rx at a lower rate ----and with no other sources ----what to do with that. They just do not last. I dont think this current dr has enough experience to really get it. No one can say what the GABA destruction will do to this.

Sleepin pills helped last night - but how can you enjoy being unconscious. Never take them - so they work. But just one of them. Not really going anywhere because it is impossibe- maybe some rum.

I just keep wondering -- people have been forced to just stop a lot ---- what if I just stopped and see what happens? Does nnot sound very good I admit. But to some one sick of this at least you are in control.

At this point the person using street drugs has the advantage --- someone to call and get through --- a way. Completely lacking that is lacking power. I also think now that more natural things like coke and Heroine are better than any synthetic thing with molecules moved around for patents. I think if I had been taking good cocaine and had to give up the good feeling ---that would be a relative walk in the park. Maybe not. But I would trade. Oxy systhesis from perto no less - from hell.

Sorry, not feeling too well.

S


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:44 pm 
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Scruffy,

The more you write the more I am starting to think you might be addicted versus being dependent. You talk like you have no options. I mentioned several options and you haven't responded at all. The one thing you haven't yet tried is telling any doctor the truth. That is addict behavior (just an FYI). You mention that if you were getting drugs from the street it would be easier, but it isn't. It runs out. You have a legitimate medical problem and all you really have to do right now is call the doctor and tell him you weren't entirely honest and explain what has been happening with your script and you don't know what to do. You have been given quite a bit of information on addiction, dependence, suboxone, and methadone. You aren't doomed. You need to speak with a doctor honestly because clearly THIS isn't working. I wouldn't worry about being on "another" pill or short term detox or playing out the entire future in your mind. ANYTHING would essentially be better than where you are now. So why not just worry about finding a solution that will at least partially manage your pain and keep your depression in check and whatever other side effects you are having. I can say that suboxone has far fewer negative side effects than I thought oxy did and I have also heard good things about methadone.

I am sorry to say Scruffy but the only barrier you have right now is you.

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

- Winston Churchill


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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