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 Post subject: Aspartame in Suboxone
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Hello!
This is my first post here. I`ve been on sub for about a month. I see plenty of intellegent discussion here but nobody so far mentioned the aspartame content. If the makers of sub had our wellbeing in mind, they wouldn`t have put aspartame in it . I`m sure lactose as tablet filler would work as well. It`s a major issue for me because aspartame has been proven to be poison, so this is another reason to quit. I plan to get off of it as soon as possible. I started on 16mg after a 1-2 bundle/day smack skin-popping habit which followed Dilaudid addiction after legitimate pain (crushing and shoooting the damn pills for a year). I`m down to 3-4mg after a month.

IMHO anyone except those unlucky enough to have been on high amounts of methadone for a long time, should never be on sub for longer than 1-2 months. I couldn`t imagine being a lifer on joyless dope. If you want to be an opioid slave for life, choose real dope.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:37 pm 
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I'm also in the process of quitting. I'm on day 5 without suboxone.
I can't say the aspartame is an issue for me, only because I'm a big diet dr pepper drinker and I think that has aspartame if I'm not mistaken, so if it's poison I should be dead at the rate I drink the damn things.

You must be careful what you say about suboxone here. A lot of people are lifer's on suboxne and they are living normal lives and therefore they don't want to be accused of being drug addicts. So, just a warning.

That being said, I do agree with some of what you said. I don't think doctors are filtering who they put on suboxne. I was not a long term drug abuser, I have never committed a crime to obtain drugs, I began abusing drugs after being given a legal script during a very bad time in my life after the birth of my son whom has severe CP. I don't think suboxne was the answer. Now having said that, I also must say that I believe suboxone has allowed me the time to think things through, realize I can manage my life without trying to escape because I've been doing so the past 18 months and so I now have the confidence that I can do it. Would that have happened without suboxone? idk. The truth is, it's not the reason for all of your problems.

Are you sure your ready? Did I understand it's only been a month since you began subs and left your drug abuse behind? That's not a very long time. How do you plan to not go back to the drugs? I mean you do realize your not craving them because of the suboxone so once that's gone your addict mind will always be there, how do you plan to manage that?

Best of luck with whatever decisions you make


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:53 pm 
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About being a lifer. I know plenty of heroin lifers who lead normal productive lives. We all know about all the great writers,painters and musicians etc who were opium/morphine lifers, Goethe and Freud come to mind.
The questions are;
1) whether to make the choice of being an opioid lifer.
2) if making this choice, what opioid to choose.
Sub has its great benefits, it`s hell of a lot cheaper than copping H or pills on the street, also it`s legal. It has no adultarants except aspartame and the artificial food colors + some other pill fillers.
The major negative side is that it doesn`t make one high.
Being a methadone lifer is hell, imagine your last years on it when you can`t even drag yourself to the clinic to get it.
But at least it keeps you high.

IMHO subs must be used as a detox tool. In case of switching to them after a major addiction one needs 1-2 months of using them daily in stable high amounts in order to get his/her finances in order, to generally "decompress" and get used to being normal again. So, a relatively short period of anywhere between 4-16 mg of sub after years of major abuse is not unreasonable. Continuing high sub dosage after this is just continuing your addiction.

There are only 3 ways of doing drugs:
1) doing the same amounts (maintainance) just to be normal
2) increasing/escalating in order to get high
3) tapering/detoxing

Any day you are not tapering, you are prolonging your addiction.

I had gone down to crumbs once, started from 4mg and was down to them after 4-6 weeks. Then I relapsed and had 6 months of horrendous H shooting. The relapse was unrelated to the sub WDs, purely due to personal problems.
The major symptoms of sub w/ds when I was down to crumbs were unbelievable weakness and leg bone pain.
I couldn`t believe when tiniest crumbs would relieve all this.

PS. IMHO sub and especially methadone are tools to minimize the horrors of opioid detox. Being very long-acting drugs, in high amounts and taken for a long time they can produce changes in the brain which are practically irreversible.
I`m very thankful to sub for saving me from the total financial ruin caused by H but I`ll be infinitely more thankful when I get off of it. Otherwise I`ll try to move to UK or Switzerland and get on H for life:).


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Hello People, this is your friendly Moderator speaking

I'm reading some things in this thread that are coming very close to breaking the forum rules, which I've quoted here to remind everybody:

Quote:
Please do not debate the 'Pros and Cons of Suboxone' --
this forum is for people who have made their choice whether
it be for Suboxone, for Methadone, or for meetings and no meds.

PLEASE Do not get into debating which is better!

Please show the respect for the decisions of others



* This forum is for people who have made their choice whether it be for Suboxone, for Methadone, or for meetings and no medication. While I recognize that some readers are not yet at the end of that choosing process, I ask that they read the information and make their decision without encouraging debate on the forum.
* PLEASE Do not get into debating which is better-- such debates never change minds, and often introduce false information that clouds intelligent decision-making.
* Show the respect for the decisions of others and avoid personal attacks.


What I'm thinking is that these quotes, for example, are NOT showing respect for the decisions of others and are getting very close to debating the pros & cons of Suboxone. Plus, these comments are just not in the spirit of the forum.

Quote:
A lot of people are lifer's on suboxne and they are living normal lives and therefore they don't want to be accused of being drug addicts



Quote:
IMHO anyone except those unlucky enough to have been on high amounts of methadone for a long time, should never be on sub for longer than 1-2 months. I couldn`t imagine being a lifer on joyless dope. If you want to be an opioid slave for life, choose real dope.



So, I haven't decided yet if I will edit these remarks out of the posts or not, but in the meantime I wanted to let you guys know what was up. If you have questions or comments please PM me or another moderator. Let's keep this thread on topic, and keep it civil and respectful of forum rules and members.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:54 pm 
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Occamsrazor wrote:
Hello!
This is my first post here. I`ve been on sub for about a month. I see plenty of intellegent discussion here but nobody so far mentioned the aspartame content. If the makers of sub had our wellbeing in mind, they wouldn`t have put aspartame in it . I`m sure lactose as tablet filler would work as well. It`s a major issue for me because aspartame has been proven to be poison, so this is another reason to quit. I plan to get off of it as soon as possible. I started on 16mg after a 1-2 bundle/day smack skin-popping habit which followed Dilaudid addiction after legitimate pain (crushing and shoooting the damn pills for a year). I`m down to 3-4mg after a month.



Interesting point about the aspartame. I've heard of the controversy around it, but I haven't seen any conclusive, peer-reviewed studies that conclude that aspartame is a poison. Do you have any links you could point us to to support your statement that it has been proven to be poison?

I copied this from Wikipedia, for what it's worth:

Quote:
The artificial sweetener aspartame has been the subject of several controversies and hoaxes since its initial approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1974. Critics allege that conflicts of interest marred the FDA's approval of aspartame, question the quality of the initial research supporting its safety,[41][42][43] and postulate that numerous health risks may be associated with aspartame.

The validity of these claims has been examined and dismissed.[44][45][46] In 1987, the U.S. Government Accountability Office concluded that the food additive approval process had been followed properly for aspartame.[41][47] Aspartame has been found to be safe for human consumption by more than ninety countries worldwide,[48][49] with FDA officials describing aspartame as "one of the most thoroughly tested and studied food additives the agency has ever approved" and its safety as "clear cut".[50] The weight of existing scientific evidence indicates that aspartame is safe at current levels of consumption as a non-nutritive sweetener.[3]

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:10 pm 
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Occamsrazor wrote:

IMHO subs must be used as a detox tool. In case of switching to them after a major addiction one needs 1-2 months of using them daily in stable high amounts in order to get his/her finances in order, to generally "decompress" and get used to being normal again. So, a relatively short period of anywhere between 4-16 mg of sub after years of major abuse is not unreasonable. Continuing high sub dosage after this is just continuing your addiction.

There are only 3 ways of doing drugs:
1) doing the same amounts (maintainance) just to be normal
2) increasing/escalating in order to get high
3) tapering/detoxing


Any day you are not tapering, you are prolonging your addiction.



Huh. You forgot experimentation, occasional use (which would not necessitate increasing dose to experience the effects of the drug), and using drugs appropriately (as prescribed, for example, to treat acute pain). So it looks like there's at least six ways of doing drugs.


Quote:
PS. IMHO sub and especially methadone are tools to minimize the horrors of opioid detox. Being very long-acting drugs, in high amounts and taken for a long time they can produce changes in the brain which are practically irreversible.
I`m very thankful to sub for saving me from the total financial ruin caused by H but I`ll be infinitely more thankful when I get off of it. Otherwise I`ll try to move to UK or Switzerland and get on H for life:).


Ok, you are entitled to your opinion but if you are going to make statements of fact like the one I bolded above, I think you should back it up with some evidence. According to what I've been reading lately, scientists and researchers are just now starting to understand just how plastic the brain is and how hard-wired our reward-response circuits are. I haven't seen anything stating that methadone or buprenorphine cause change to the brain that are "practically irreversible," but I'd be interested to read anything you have to support that statement.

Please understand that a lot of people come here looking for information on Suboxone/buprenorphine and it is a constant struggle for the mods and admin to keep misinformation off of the forum.

Regarding your opinion that Sub should only be used as a detox tool - I believe that Dr. Junig has posted links to studies here and on his blog that support far better outcomes for patients who use Suboxone as a maintenance drug than for those who do a relatively short-course of treatment. I'm at work right now and I need to go, but I will look around for those links later and post them here.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:45 pm 
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I thought the purpose of this forum was finding out the truth.
The fact that many here have chosen to be sub lifers is their unfortunate choice. As far as meds go, FDA has knowingly approved countless poisons which have killed countless people, these meds have been taken off the market.
USA govt maintains that depleted uranium is perfectly safe but I don`t see Bush and Cheney sleeping on beds made of DU and using DU dust as stuffing for their pillows.

Illegality of heroin and coke creates a black market which is a 1-2 trillion$/yr CASH economy. This cash is the underpinning of the capitalist system. GOD translates into Gold,Oil and Drugs. This is how the super-rich make their money.
Methadone is liquid handcuffs and suboxone is methadone for the rich.

I agree that there is responsible opioid use. Just as there is social drinking, there are many people who dabble in H and coke occasionally and they are not addicted. One can safely enjoy H and other opioids once in a while without developing physical addiction.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Comical. This is debating? By what definition? Follow me around if you like, if it gives you some since of self importance, knock yourself out.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Aspartame does taste like poison to me, I personally try to avoid it for that reason alone. As for debating and so on, DOQ I want to thank you for your comments on this thread, they are well spoken, but I also hope you dont' go so far as to delete stuff out of the posts. That makes threads so confusing to read. I do understand your point about how people come to the site looking for info on sub and we don't want to have posts that might get scare people away from sub treatment based on opinions rather than medical facts. And I can see that it requires a lot of energy for the moderators to respond to all these posts, and more so in situations that require diplomacy. It seems to me that the thing is we should try not to take differences in opinion too personally. BB's last post is so defensive, and I'm not sure why. I think we should all take care to remember the difference between fact and opinion and I also feel that the main rule to follow on the forum besides that is to accept others. I certainly dont' always follow the advice others give me here, even though it's generally very good advice, and sometimes I feel pretty pathetic to continue to post, but, at least I feel accepted here so I can continue to have some support. Anywa, my posts aren't known for being to the point, but I wanted to say these things, thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:59 pm 
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autononymous - I for one am glad you're here, and I really do hope you will keep posting. I am sure that if you just keep trying you will find your way through the challenges you've been facing lately.

I don't think I will delete anything from this thread, although the comments about people on Sub maintenance being drug addicts do rub me the wrong way.

I know that when I was on Suboxone (for nearly two years), I felt much differently than I did when I was actively using. The freedom from cravings and withdrawal that I got from Suboxone gave me the time and space I needed to get my life together. I went back to school, got my associate's degree and started a program at school to become an addiction counselor. I was able to work, be a good mother, and learn how to take care of myself. The stability I found let me work on my issues in therapy and develop other ways to keep my recovery moving forward. Eventually I (and my doctor) thought I was ready to taper off, and I was able to do that. The support I got here was a big contributing factor in my success.

During the time I was on Sub, I was definitely dependent on it. But I was largely free from the mental aspects of addiction, which was what I really needed. Suboxone is not a miracle cure, it's just another tool for recovery - in my case a powerful one. It sucks that it doesn't work for everyone that way, and I encourage anyone who finds that it isn't working for them to try to put into place all the other recovery tools that they can. It's only by looking at the big picture and treating our addiction from the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual sides that we can ever get better.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:52 pm 
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autononymous - Ok, I'll entertain this one last time. You want to understand why I defended myself. It's because my statement was taken completely out of context. The below message was written, as you can see from pp by doq:

What I'm thinking is that these quotes, for example, are NOT showing respect for the decisions of others and are getting very close to debating the pros & cons of Suboxone. Plus, these comments are just not in the spirit of the forum.

Below this post he quoted my comment (below)

A lot of people are lifer's on suboxne and they are living normal lives and therefore they don't want to be accused of being drug addicts

So, can you explain to me exactly what you read into this that is "NOT showing respect for the decisions of others....."

What you don't know, is this has nothing to do with my response to the op, this is just someone trying to throw around power and rattle my cage over a different statement from a different topic all together.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:50 pm 
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beautifullybroken,

The comment that I'm taking issue with is this:

A lot of people are lifer's on suboxone and they are living normal lives and therefore they don't want to be accused of being drug addicts.

My read on this is that you are saying that people on Suboxone maintenance are drug addicts because they are on Suboxone, rather than saying they are on Suboxone because they suffer from addiction. Do you see the difference? One implies that taking Suboxone simply continues addiction, while the other implies treatment. To imply that people on Suboxone are drug addicts for taking Suboxone, ie - they are still in active addiction, does not show respect for their decision to treat their addiction with medication.

Perhaps that is not what you meant though. I thought there was definitely some room for ambiguity there, which is why I didn't edit or delete your post, I just responded to it. It's pretty routine for the moderators to call out this kind of language around here, and it is just as routine for the original poster to just clarify and move on.

As for whether I am just trying to power trip or rattle your cage...Well, I know that you read my rather lengthy apology and explanation in that other thread, so I'm not really sure why you are accusing me of that. I'm not following you around the forum - I generally try to read everything that's posted here so I know what's going on.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:09 pm 
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So what your saying is, because I said that people on suboxone living normal lives do not want to be accused of being drug addicts you perceived that as, me saying people on suboxone maintenance ARE drug addicts.

And you say "perhalps, that is not what you meant"

You should be sorry, it was a horrible accusation. Were you attacked like this during your w/d's? I hope you were shown more mercy than you show to others. I honestly do. You should take a good look around you, people are not as awful as you seem to think.
I can't believe the amount of stress I'm getting from this forum, really, it's amazing. You come some place looking for support during a very difficult time both physically and mentally and I'm being forced to defend accusations of accusing OTHER people of being addicts. WTF!

I know my reaction to this stupid thread is exaggerated because of these w/d's but what's your excuse?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Let me understand this correctly. People who take sub don`t want to be accused of being drug addicts.
So, taking a physically addictive opioid which unfortunately doesn`t produce a high is not an addiction.
I`ve heard somewhere that the main problem with opioids is the physical addiction they produce.


We all know that the opioid high is a private pleasure, almost totally invisible to the non-opiated people which does not in any way hinder productivity even at the highest levels of intellectual work. The good doctor here was a practicing anesthesiologist hooked on fentanyl. The number of docs addicted to opioids is staggeringly high.

I`m not accusing anyone of being an opioid addict. To me it`s not a crime and I support complete legalization of opioids, powder cocaine and marijuana, having been completely addicted to all 3 plus having sucessfully overcome on my own without any medical help a 30 Valium/day habit which led to delirium tremens.

I`m simply stating the obvious fact that if a person is taking a physically addictive opioid in order to function, he/she is an addict, even if this particular opioid is not producing a high worth a damn. To think otherwise is to compound being an addict with a delusional personality disorder.

Imagine for a second that heroin was completely physically non-addictive and as safe as water. Would the fact that one is taking it and getting high be the grounds for labeling one as an addict? Of course not. It`s the fact that we the heroin shooters occasionally wake up crapping in our pants which makes us addicts. It`s the physical addiction which is the destructive part of opioid-seeking behaviour, not the quite innocent and private opioid high.

Suboxone produces similar physical addiction, although less intense. The fact that it`s a uniquely joyless drug does not absolve one from the sin of being physically addicted. The sin is the physical addiction itself, not the high. We are raping our bodies with sub just as we do with any other opioid but without the opioid pleasure.


PS. It`s interesting that many here shudder at the thought of being labeled as addicts to the point of deluding themselves.
You may make the choice of deluding yourselves this way but don`t force your delusions upon others.
I wear my heroin addict label with pride. To me it`s the ultimate proof of my unconformity and lack of fear to go where most do not dare to. Opioid addicts are veterans of chemical warfare and there is no need to be ashamed of this.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:14 pm 
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beautifullybroken wrote:
You must be careful what you say about suboxone here. A lot of people are lifer's on suboxne and they are living normal lives and therefore they don't want to be accused of being drug addicts. So, just a warning.

I don't think doctors are filtering who they put on suboxne. I was not a long term drug abuser, I have never committed a crime to obtain drugs, I began abusing drugs after being given a legal script during a very bad time in my life after the birth of my son whom has severe CP. I don't think suboxne was the answer. Now having said that, I also must say that I believe suboxone has allowed me the time to think things through, realize I can manage my life without trying to escape because I've been doing so the past 18 months and so I now have the confidence that I can do it. Would that have happened without suboxone? idk. The truth is, it's not the reason for all of your problems.

Are you sure your ready? Did I understand it's only been a month since you began subs and left your drug abuse behind? That's not a very long time. How do you plan to not go back to the drugs? I mean you do realize your not craving them because of the suboxone so once that's gone your addict mind will always be there, how do you plan to manage that?

Best of luck with whatever decisions you make


I have horrendously abused every drug in the book except crack,speed , LSD/PCP/shrooms and other schizophrenic garbage. These I would never take even if you paid me. I did astronomical amounts of benzos,grass and coke in college, hit bottom in `96, got expelled, got clean on my own, came out from the zomby state which follows 30Valium/day habit, came back to college and forgot about all the drugs for 11 completely clean and sober years until 2007. I didn`t have any cravings and never imagined taking any drugs ever again, except taking a symbolic puff on a joint once every year or even less.

I started this opioid binge in 2007 after a horrendously painful illness which was actually cured by nothing but Dilaudid itself (opioids are known to cure chronic pain, not alleviate it but actually cure it after a few doses). If someone told me 3 years ago that I would become a junkie, crap my pants and shoot cotton trying to get straight, I would have thought he was crazy. I was not only very ill at the time but was in a very bad period of my life where everything fell apart like a house of cards, my health, my career, my relationship with that bitch from hell that was my girlfriend at the time and even my cat whom I loved like my child was dying in front of me from a horrible cancer. So, at that time the temptation to wrap myself into the warm opium blanket was stronger than my common sense which always knew that I was playing with death itself. I tried Vicodin before during my completely straight years. I took it for almost every flu I had, due to sinus pain, would pop 3/day for 2-3 days and then stop. I had almost zero cravings to continue because I was mentally strong at the time and had too much to lose.We succumb to drugs when we are weak and are robbed of normal life pleasures such as health, career, relationships, the company of our loved ones which does include our pets.

PS.Opioids are my thing and I suppose that I will dabble in them once in a while after I get clean and sober for a few months. I think living in superstitious fear of opioids after having gone thru lots of trouble caused by them is not the answer. There are plenty of drunks who`ve hit the bottom and now they choose grape juice at communion. I drank like a fish in high school,stopped one fine day at 16, threw away my pack of cigs and quit drinking and smoking that night. I started lifting weights and became an amateur nearly competitive teenage bodybuilder after 1.2 years of mad working out. I don`t drink at all except a few tiny sips a year, have gone thru decades of not even tasting once. I have zero fear of booze or of being in the company of drunks, I`m not addicted to it at all. I would love be able to enjoy a glass of beer or wine at dinner everyday but my liver hates it and I get real bad hangovers so it`s not worth it. Similarly I know responsible coke and heroin users who sniff a few lines once in a while.

The drugs are not the problem, our weakness is. To me going to meetings and weeping about being an ex- junkie/drunk after 20 yrs of sobriety is the ultimate weakness. These people should fear not the drugs but their own reflection in the mirror.


Last edited by Occamsrazor on Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:29 pm 
Just so you all know, I double checked the prescribing info. and there is NO Aspartame in Suboxone. The Artificial sweetener is Asulfame K.

Also, Occomsrazor, it's good to know that you're unique and unlike the rest of us you will be able to use opiates "occaisonally" after you get clean. That explains a lot about your attitude toward Suboxone.


Last edited by Lilly on Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Lilly wrote:
Just so you all know, I double checked the prescribing info. and there is NO Aspartame in Suboxone. The Artificial sweetener is Asulfame K.


Thanks for the info. I still prefer organic cane sugar.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:45 pm 
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beautifullybroken,

I have not "attacked" you once on this forum. It is my job as a moderator to call out questionable posts. FYI, the reason that your post was called out was because another member complained about it. If I misinterpreted what you wrote, then I apologize. However, I didn't give you a warning or edit your post or anything like that...let alone "attack" you. I simply pointed out what I thought was getting close to crossing a line.

Frankly, I am getting tired of this conflict. If you have an issue with how I am handling moderation on this thread or the forum in general, please take it up with Jamez70, as he is the forum admin and is therefore my "boss." Here is a link to his profile, from which you can send him a PM: http://suboxforum.com/profile.php?mode= ... file&u=214

I'm sure you will find him much more merciful than I am.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:13 pm 
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Lilly wrote:
Just so you all know, I double checked the prescribing info. and there is NO Aspartame in Suboxone. The Artificial sweetener is Asulfame K.

Also, Occomsrazor, it's good to know that you're unique and unlike the rest of us you will be able to use opiates "occaisonally" after you get clean. That explains a lot about your attitude toward Suboxone.


I completely understand your irony, believe me I do. I`m unique in many respects but being able to occasionally partake in the forbidden fruit even after losing everything but the life itself to it is not unique. It is rare but it happens. I`ve known a lady in her 50s, part Native American and part Irish who used to bang H and coke in one syringe just like me but for decades and not 2-3 years like me.She got clean with a supreme willpower effort and now she does both or either of them when she feels like it, once a week at the most, usually less . She actually hasn`t touched any in 5-6 months due to lack of interest, almost like if coke and H was pot or beer. This woman exudes willpower that can move mountains.

If it doesn`t kill you, it makes you stronger. Junk addiction will either kill you or it will forge an incredible personality out of you. If you can overcome a major opioid addiction and I`m talking shooting massive amounts and not eating or even snorting pills, you can do practically anything and that should include responsible partaking in the same drugs in case you choose to do so. I`m not advocating drug use and I`m not anti-suboxone. I`m pro-truth and anti-weakness.
It is weakness and deluding ourselves which got us into the addiction mess. The only way to cure addiction is to become spiritually strong and honest with yourself and others.


The only possible excuse for becoming an opioid lifer of any kind is getting hooked at an early age, decades of uniterrupted heavy abuse, especially in cases of heavy methadone. In such cases there is often complete inability to sleep without some opioid coursing thru your veins. That`s why every junkie knows that getting on methadone is a one-way ticket to hell.
PS. About the artificial sweetener in sub. Wouldn`t it make sense if the sub patient community contacted the producers of it and suggested removing the artificial garbage from the pills?
You see, I`ve never given up on myself inspite of being a needle addict. I haven`t had a bite of junk food in my life and I used to lift weights almost competitively. I plan to go back to the gym as soon as I get clean. Many will laugh at this, a dude shoots street dope but worries about sweeteners. I`ve survived many overdoses, DT`s from benzos, blood poisoning from a dirty shot, thrombosis in my legs due to shooting coke and an actual heartattack from coke in my early `20s which still shows up on my EKG. I`m not supposed to be alive but I`m not only alive, I look a lot younger than my age. IMHO exercise and diet have a lot to do with me still being around.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:34 pm 
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Occamsrazor,
Wow dude, are you ok? Your not making any since, sound's like you been hanging out with my uncle Willis back in the hills of North Georgia drinking some of that white lightening.

Seriously, I hope you find some help. Life's too short for all the b.s man.


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