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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 3:21 pm 
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I asked my sub doc to get me off of subutex because I am tired of not livin my life on life's terms. I ended up on this medication because I was pregnant and I was in pain management. I had expressed I wanted to wean off of my pain medication but my doctor did not want me to just stop so he gave me an ultimatum. He said either you take this medication or I'm going to fire you if you choose to wean off. So that big daddy clutch set in on me so I chose to take the new medication. This is almost two years later...
Since I started this medication I have hated it since day one. It is always made me feel like I'm in a fog an giving me headaches and just made me feel really blah. Well I decided that I'm tired of being on it and I want off. I also believe that my doctor is trying to keep people sick and he doesn't want to support my recovery. . I have recorded office visits to prove he doesn't support any part of my recovery. I am currently at 1.75 pill since I requested the taper, I was at 2 pills a day. I had a great slow taper plan with another doctor, but when I went in to taper another quarter, it was my normal doctor. He was MAD that I wanted off, he said I am going to sabotage myself, and then he said "you want off? Let's not dance this slow dance, let's get you off". He said in his methadone clinic he gets people off in 21 days, so that's what he chose to do with me...: I reminded him I still breastfeed.... He said baby hardly gets anything... But every other doc I spoke to said its unknown..: so my thought about that is "why risk it??" So he has me on this, what I find to be, a too fast taper... For 4 days take 1.50 tabs, for four days take 1.25 tabs, for two days take 1 tab, for two days take .75 tabs, for 5 days take .50 tab, for four days take .25 tab.... Then I am done. This sounds fishy to me and I don't feel comfortable about it... Is this normal taper ???


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 5:54 pm 
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are the tabs 2mgs or 8mgs? Also, if you jumped off from 2 8mg tabs a day by 21 days you would probably still be sick as a dog so a 21 day taper from that sounds ridiculous and I would refuse and find another DR (probably way easier said than done).. If they are 2mgs tabs its still ridiculous and I'd assume you will still suffer WD for a few weeks or so. Now some people (very few I think) have jumped off at high doses and had a manageable withdrawal, like me. I jumped at 6-8mgs and it moved along quickly, at least the acute withdrawal and I didn't get any depression or anxiety after that. It did take a while for some things like digestion and fatigue but I was still so happy by this point it didn't matter, I felt good. I really wouldn't go through with this but if you do, you need to get as healthy as you can as fast as you can. Start working out, eating healthy, etc.. With a baby I would try to go slow and steady, dropping slow, staying there, dropping slow, staying there... Who knows maybe you'll get to a dose that doesn't make you feel blah and be able to live life on it healthy and happy without the side affects (or effects)..


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:07 pm 
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Yes 8 mg


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:10 pm 
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I didn't know they made 2 mg pills. I take the 8 mg pills. I just want off substances!! I feel my life has stopped since I got back in pain management!! I hate being dependent on pills! What I think the doctor should do is do a slow taper then when I get down to my last dose he needs to prescribe me a benzo and clonidine to help with the anxiety and to help with the cravings and withdraw. They also have to dress my pain. I had severe back pain. This is all very scary for me


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 10:09 pm 
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I can only imagine... Can you switch doctors and find one that will let you do it on your time? This doctor sounds like he's not very educated in how it works, or just doesn't care. I mean you can try to fight through it but I would start looking for someone new ASAP. I don't have any experience in the dr or best taper but I know a lot of people on this site do. Check back tomorrow and I'll bet you'll have some great advice. Do what is best for you and the baby, and start now before this but job nearly kills uou.


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 10:11 pm 
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I meant nut job not but job.. Auto correct


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:31 pm 
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Scaredlady,

Yes, that sounds like an overly aggressive taper schedule, and it sounds like that doctor is trying to "punish" you for trying to get off. Could you just say you've changed your mind and just want to stay at the regular dose, and then do the taper on your own (just so your prescription isn't threatened)? Read through the taper threads on this site. There are many different stories and methods, but basically, the most successful were "slow and low". The people tapered very slowly to a very low dose (down to 0.25mg, or 0.125mg, and even 0.06mg, which is basically crumbs of the pill). That, combined with good diet and exercise seems to have really made the difference between misery and manageability.

Keep us posted,
Morphing


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:21 pm 
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scaredlady...nice to meet you and sorry you are going through this.

The posters above have given some really good advice and thoughts and I really don't have much to add to it. Your doctor's taper plan is WRONG and would have most people going through withdrawals due to Sub's half-life and stacking in your system.

I have a very good doc now who is very supportive in my taper but my first 2 sub doctors were not good docs. Sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do. If you can, find a new doctor. If you are stuck seeing this doc, you may have to "play ball" with him while tapering yourself without him knowing. I hate to say that but he is giving you false info about the tapering method.

I tapered from 8 mgs to 6 mgs over a month period, then from 6 mgs to 4 over the next month. The next month I went to 3mgs and the next month to 2mgs. I am currently at 2 mgs and plan to wean down .5 every month. If I need to stay at a dose extra time, I can. As you can see, this is a slow taper and much different than what your ill-informed doctor suggested.

Please keep posting here. You will find support and good advice and no judgement :)

Best wishes!

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1.1.15 - 8 mg/day
1.24.15 - 6 mgs/day
3.6.15 - 4 mg/day
3.22.15 - 3 mg/day
5.3.15- 2 mg/day
5.17.15 - 1.5 mg/day
5.29.15 - 1 mg/day
6.16.15 - .8 mg/day
12.18.15 - 4 mg
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:10 pm 
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Wow I knew that he was punishing me! What a jerk!!! I will definitely consider asking to stay on and taper down. What I'll do is I'll get to the lowest dose I can tolerate then I'll go in acting like I want to stay on it,. Then do the taped myself. Thanks so much! Where I live sub docs aren't everywhere and easy to get. :(


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:45 pm 
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How do y'all do the smiley faces? I'm using an iPhone 5.. No but really that's a great idea scared lady.. Then you'll be in control not pea brain. Hope that now makes you "notscaredanymorelady"


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:07 pm 
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Smiley face looks like this : ) only much closer together If you put a colon right next to the other parentheses (frownie face) There are also emoticons to the left of your typing screen. If you click on one it will be inserted into the text you are writing. Here are some examples of the emoticons you can use: :wink: :roll: :shock: :oops:

Hope this helps!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 11:23 pm 
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I still can't find the emoticon things... Which is probably a good thing because I'd be using them all the time, especially the eye rolling one, that one is my fave!

Sounds like you are feeling more comfortable with taking the bull by the horns and doing your own tapering schedule. Keep us all posted as to how it goes!


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 9:53 am 
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scaredlady

I would just tell the doctor you have changed your mind about tapering. You realize sub treatment is the right thing and you want to continue as you were. The reason for this is to build up your stash so you can take your time tapering. If you wait until you are at a low dose he may not let you stay as a patient.

IMO, he cares not about recovery but about being "right" and when questioned he will punish. I can't imagine getting off suboxone or methadone in 21 days!

Do what you feel is right for you but don't expect this doctor to care about you...sad but it seems true by what you have posted.

It makes me so sad to hear of doctors like this. I am lucky my doctor is really in it to help people. He knows first hand what active abuse of opiates can do to a family.

Good Luck Doll


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 10:35 am 
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Tiki, I'm glad you have a good doc too ;) My first doc was a "numbers guy"....he was all about getting patients in and out and very judgemental, as well. He made me feel horrible.
My 2nd doctor disappeared....I'm not kidding. I showed up for my appt and his door was locked and he was gone. Tracked him down and discovered he'd moved to another state without informing any of his patients. He's also the one that prescribed me 24 mgs/day....this for a woman who had a 3-4 times daily 5mg lortab habit. (prescribed to me and I couldn't quit...a doctor-induced addict). He was a general practitioner who had taken the Sub course to get more patients...he even admitted this to me!

3rd time is the charm and now I have a psychiatrist who is also an "addiction specialist". Wow, the difference in him and my first two docs is unbelievable. He is so knowledgeable, supportive and caring.

scaredlady....seems like you will have to do this taper on your own but you have the support of this board. It is the best and most informed Sub board on the internet. I am thankful to Dr. Junig for providing this for Sub users. I am going to be here for a while so I'll be sure and look for your posts. Use this board to journal your taper on your own thread. It's very therapeutic :)
Hopefully you will see me on the "Sub in the rearview mirror" board next year this time!

quietaddict...I don't know why you can't see the smileys! It must be something to do with your Iphone :mrgreen: When I reply, they are there just to the left of the screen.
On the right side, you can change your color fonts. :arrow:

_________________

1.1.15 - 8 mg/day
1.24.15 - 6 mgs/day
3.6.15 - 4 mg/day
3.22.15 - 3 mg/day
5.3.15- 2 mg/day
5.17.15 - 1.5 mg/day
5.29.15 - 1 mg/day
6.16.15 - .8 mg/day
12.18.15 - 4 mg
12.28.15 - 2 mg
1.10.16 - 1.5 mg
1.21.16 - 1 mg


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 4:39 pm 
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Hey scaredlady,
What this dr. is doing is what they call a "Humane Detox", not a taper. Does he have a background in Methadone treatment? This mirrors a Methadone Detox. All I can tell you is save your Suboxone up so you can dictate when and how you want to do this. Try to stay with him until you have some saved back to last you for the taper.
Good luck,
Happy


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:42 am 
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My doc does have a methadone clinic but he's new at it. I will call tomorrow and tell them that I don't feel right now is the right time to jump off yet... I truly believe he just wants to keep me sick! I refuse to allow a legal drug dealer put me in a situation where I come begging for his aid. I will do this in my own and with the help of this board. Thank you!


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:43 am 
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I hope it works out for you. Keep us posted on how everything goes. I understand wanting off but I would take it slow. Once you taper to a lower dose you may stumble across one that really is perfect for you and stay there. But that's your decision. And one more thing........ :D :) :lol: 8) .. I found the smiley faces.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:06 pm 
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How old is your baby now? How often does he/she nurse? I tend to think that a small amount of bupe makes it into breast milk, but since there haven't been studies I don't know for sure.

One thing I'm not understanding is the different doctors you've gotten information from. Are these doctors in a pain management clinic together? How is it that one tells you one thing and then you see a completely different doctor who tells you something else. It seems odd that they're not on the same page.

I hope you're getting the information you need here, but feel free to ask more questions!

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 8:18 pm 
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Quote:
I asked my sub doc to get me off of subutex because I am tired of not livin my life on life's terms. I ended up on this medication because I was pregnant and I was in pain management. I had expressed I wanted to wean off of my pain medication but my doctor did not want me to just stop so he gave me an ultimatum. He said either you take this medication or I'm going to fire you if you choose to wean off. So that big daddy clutch set in on me so I chose to take the new medication. This is almost two years later...
Since I started this medication I have hated it since day one. It is always made me feel like I'm in a fog an giving me headaches and just made me feel really blah. Well I decided that I'm tired of being on it and I want off. I also believe that my doctor is trying to keep people sick and he doesn't want to support my recovery. .



Scaredlady: I am going to say i would have to disagree on trying to find a new doctor. I read problem statements I call them contracts, of what, how, when etc a database or how a computer program should be implemented, making it easier for the user while also taking in to account user input that is not valid. It is vital that I put in a check for all user input. The input must be valid. if the input is not valid I tell the user throwing an error.

Anyway my point is some things stand out reading your post and have some questions You have pain or chronic pain. How will this be handled? My point is even if you stop suboxone not addressing the cause of your pain will mean pain medication. Have you thought about this? this is what i am trying to implement here, getting you to think about the logic(if you haven't already).

It sounds like your doctor knows this. I am sure he knows that stopping may not be in your best interest with the pain issues
I do think in spite of what you stated, I do think your doctor does have your best interest and is just being real with you.

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Opportunity may only knock once but temptation leans on the doorbell...


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 1:15 pm 
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What I would do, is say you have decided to stay on, because you think it would be a bad idea to get off and all the stress a baby can cause, I dunno some BS, pet his ego, pull out some waterworks if neededl. BUT do not take the whole strip, slowly go down at your on pace, like start at 6mg, stay there a week, another week drop down to 4 then stay there a while thne to 2mg ect. etc. Just DON"t tell the doctor you are doing this. He sounds like a sraight up butt, the kind where you have to rub there ego and agree with EVERYTHING they say, and they know you will because if you do not you are gonna be in a world of hurt. But, just say you wanna say on the same dose, then do your on taper, plenty of charts and other things on the internet to givie advice to make it the most confortable. And detoxing people off of Methadone in 21 days??!! I know it 'can' be done but my god, thats just asking for someone to go running back to the clinic, especially if they were on a higherish dose...same with Subs, it's asking for a patient to come running back because rapid tapers are just not confortable AT ALL with Long acting opiods. Best of luck! Do you plan to go back to pain managment after the Subs, or just be done with it all? But this doctor sounds money greedy and just wants to keep his patiens honestly, then gets angry when they want to taper off.


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