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 Post subject: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Hello all,

This is my first post here. I have read many different stories and methods about tapering off suboxen. I really like the people on this forum so I have decided to share my experience here. I hope that is OK. I plan on using this thread as a source of information in case I have any questions and also as a source of strength.

The liquid tapering method is absolutely brilliant and I am very excited to start this process of getting off suboxen.
I have been on 16mg of sub for the past 2 years. Before that I was on methadone for 1 year and opana for 1.5 years due to back problems. I have recently gotten down to 2mg of sub and the back pain has not been that bad. I am not sure if my back has healed or if the suboxen really helps my pain at a 2mg dose. I guess I will find out. My current Dr is a very nice and knowledgeable person who is going to be very happy when I tell him next week that I am ready to get off suboxen permanently.

I did slip of and smoked a bowl of some medical grade marijuana on new years eve so I will be peeing dirty for my first time. I am really hoping my Dr will be OK with it since I am going to tell him and it has never happened before, but I can't help but stress over would might possibly happen. I do have a reserve of over several hundred 8 mg tabs and 80 packets of the 8 mg films. So in reality I might have enough to stop on my own, but I feel like having the support of a good Dr while going through this would be too good of a resource to waste. I just really hate knowing I am going to pee dirty.

I plan on dropping down to 1.5 mg here in the next few days and decreasing by .1 mg all the way down to .025 using the liquid taper method. I am lucky enough to have klonopin to help me through this. My goal is to reduce .1mg every 7-10 days. I work full time and go to school full time so I really need to do this slow and right so I do not screw up everything.

Any posts will be welcome and I am hoping on the support of this great community to help me be free from suboxen.
I hope I have been honest enough and provided enough basic information to give every a good baseline where I am during the start of this process.

I do have 1 question. There is a lot of conflicting information about what type of vitamins, minerals, and or other supps you can take that actually make a significant difference on the tapering process. Any ideas would be appreciated from those who have successfully quit.

Thank you to all who read and post.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:57 am 
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Welcome to the forum, Aruga! It's more than OK for you to share your experience with your taper and ask questions. There are a number of people here who have experience with tapering and are happy to share advice.

I don't have any information for you about supplements. I just wanted to say welcome!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:01 pm 
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i have been on 2mg for the past 2 days. I dropped down from 3mg. So far so good but it may be a bit to early to tell. It seems that when most people get down to 1mg they taper .1mg all the way down. What is the best way to get to 1mg. I was planning on staying at this 2mg dose for another week then dropping down to 1mg. Do you all think that is too much?


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:50 pm 
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3 days on 2 mg and it has not been to bad. I won't drop that much again but overall I am still sleeping pretty well and able to function decently. Noticeable symptoms are definitely some hot flashes, yawning, watering eyes, and slight RLS. Good symptoms are I can notice my libido coming back and not as constipated any more.
I read a post somewhere where .25 mg of sub was equal to about 8 mg of oxy. IS that true? What is the lowest anyone here has tapered too? IT seems to me that the lower you get the less severe the PAWS would be. IF you get to the lowest dose possible and extend it every 2nd or 3rd day four a few weeks wouldn't;t that drastically reduce your chances of going through PAWS for months?

I have enough suboxen stashed away that I am not going to go to my Dr. anymore. I feel like the longer I go the more I will extend this process. I plan on talking with him and letting him know I am tapering off and will not be back. No reason to burn the bridge with such a great Dr who has helped me so much.

Thanks to all who read and post.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Hello Aruga,

There are numerous ways to perform a taper successfully, the trick is to find one that works best for you personally. I would be happy to offer a few suggestions, and let you know how I myself was able to get off the sub.

My thread is here in this same section if you care to take a peek at it. It's long, but has lots of great info supplied by many members here. I was on the sub for around 3 years, and my induction dose was 24mg, which was very high. After about 2 years I made the decision I had been on it long enough and wanted off, I mean REALLY wanted off. Against my doctors wishes I began to taper. Got down to 2mg and tried to jump from there several times, but had to get right back on it due to symptoms being too severe for me. I came here at that point also looking for suggestions, and received many of them.

I tried a couple things, but eventually began tapering by .25mg each time, and spending about 4 days on each of the doses. I went from 1.75mg to 1.50mg to 1.25mg and so on until I got down to a dose of .50mg. I had planned to reduce to .25mg, and even thinking of reducing to .125mg when I had to have emergency surgery. I never went back to the subs after the surgery, and it worked out very well for me. Been off going on 5 months and doing great. Had a few bumps and it's all on my thread.

Some taper faster, some slower. Many taper by smaller amounts, and some by larger amounts too. And some put more or even less time between dose reductions. As I said, it's all about what works best for you. In my opinion if you reduce by 10-25% of your current dose, and reduce every 4-10 days you will be in good shape. I would also suggest you taper as low as you possibly can to have the best chance at the least amount of symptoms.

I see you are considering the liquid taper method. I have no experience, but from what I read it works extremely well. Look for the thread of "Girl on a Mission" in this same section. She used the liquid taper and had excellent results. I believe she got as low as .06mg or close to that. She had nothing but good things to say about that method. Check her thread out for more info.

Anyway that's my take on it and my opinions. I'll check back and see how your doing. I will be happy to help all that I can. Keep posting your progress and ask all the questions you like. Many here have great info that is sure to provide help and support. Take care and best wishes!

Karen xoxo


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:49 pm 
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Thanks for the reply Brown Eyed Girl. I will check out your thread now. This really is a great forum and it definitely helps to read the success stories of other people.
Congratulations to you for making the jump off suboxen. I will definitely keep posting my progress.

No one I know can really relate to what this is like so it really helps to hear from other people here. Thanks again for your post.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Hi Aruga and welcome to our forum.

Dropping from 3 to 2 mg's was a bit too much on your system. Had you read a lot of the taper threads here you would have seen it coming. But then, some do it w/o any trouble at all. It was hard on me too dropping that much. They advised me to go to 2½ one day and 2 the next. Go back and forth for about a week or two then drop it to 2 mg's. And surely don't drop from 2 to 1. That is a 50% reduction and you'll feel lousy. Same method. 1½, back to 2 mg's. So on and so on. It gets hard to taper correctly when you get this low. Listen to your body and go slow....slow..

Do you have any recovery plans once you're off of Suboxone? There are several programs out there and not all are 12 step ones. It just seems a waste of time to go to all the trouble of tapering, measuring, feeling weird, etc....and then end up right back on the drug/s that got you in trouble in the first place. So be sure you are ready for this and have a good support system in place. We can only offer so much here.

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Thanks for the post rule. I guess I was having wishful thinking in regards to my drop from 3 to 2mg. IT won't happen again. IT definitely could have been worse, but the symptoms I did experience were not necessary. I have read most threads and it seems the 25% reduction is the way to go.
My next drop in a few days will be from 2mg to 1.5.

Regarding the liquid taper method I am guessing the best way to mix the solution is to crush a pill and then just stir it in. Unless I am missing something…. I have been using the 8mg strips, but it is nearly impossible to cut out exact 1mg strips (at least for me), so I am going to start the liquid method.

And I will try your advice regarding the dosing schedule. Thanks for the tip.

As to post recovery I have never been involved in a 12 step program although I do know a lot of people who have been. It's just not for me. If I feel the need to use once this taper is over I will make any changes necessary to keep away from falling back on any type of opiates. I switched over to suboxen from Opana/Methadone on my own will. The full antagonists were causing me to be way to drowsy and it was affecting my work life and school life. Due to my pain issues my Dr recommended trying suboxen which has worked really well. Pain will be my biggest obstacle to overcome, but so far it has not been bad. I am not sure if my back has healed or if 2mgs of sub is enough to block out the pain. I have been increasing my exercise schedule and doing the stretches/techniques I learned in physical therapy to help combat any pain issues that may start to bare form again.

What I find amazing is the dropping from 16mg to 4mg was a piece of cake. Of course I did this slowly, but I could not tell any difference. To all who are on a very high dose it is really not bad dropping the dose. I highly recommend trying it. You can always go back if your experience is different than mind.

Thanks to all who read and post.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:40 am 
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Aruga,

If you have a good supply of suboxone and not in a hurry to get off, I would take it slow and gradually reduce your dose. Obviously it's up to you how you taper, but that's what worked for me.

I dropped .25mg every week from 3mg to 2mg, then by .063mg every week all the way down to .063mg. It took some time but I got down with minimal withdrawals and didn't really have much of a paws.

You can search for my posts to read my history, but I hope you stay strong and taper down.

RXFCG

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:45 am 
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Hello,

Thanks for the post RXFCG. I will definitely check out your thread. And what you described is my goal. I have enough if a supply to gradually drop down in hopes to lighten the WD symptoms and PAWS as much as possible. I think I have been tapering too quickly and am now going to slow my roll.

I started the liquid taper 2 days ago and so far I have mixed feelings.
I have been taking 1mg twice daily for a total of 2mg a day. I was cutting up 8mg strips into 1mg doses so the doses were not all perfectly cut. For the start of the liquid taper i mixed 1 8mg tab into 9 ml H2O making a dose of.9mg per ml totaling 1.8mg per day. I split the dose.
The WD symptoms were not that bad, but there was definitely some mild discomfort. Sweating, agitation and lack of patience were, and still are the problematic symptoms. What has me very confused is my back locked up on me on the 2nd day. I never rate my pain higher than a 8, and it was a full blown 8. I have not experienced pain like that since I started taking opiates a few years ago. I am unsure if this pain was a random fluke possibly caused by washing my car or some other activity or if it is from the taper.
Since I was cutting the 8mg tabs into 1mg doses I may have been taking between 1.8 - 2.4 mg a day for 7 days total.. With the liquid taper I know I was taking 1.8 mg a day. I do not think that is enough of a drop to cause such pain issues, but it may be?
As of now my back has loosened up, but is still no where near feeling great. I will continue the liquid taper and pray that I can keep going and still be able to move. I also plan on staying at this dose for about 10 days to test things out.

I will keep posting my experience here. Thanks to all who read and post.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:20 pm 
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Hello,

Day 3 of liquid taper.
Question about the liquid taper process. Is it normal to still have some small white specs (assuming you are using the 8mg generic tabs) in your solution?
I feel way worse than I should and am wondering if I made the solution correctly. I crushed the pill and even used pretty warm water to help it dissolve. However you can still see white specs if that even matters.

I feel like I could start sweating heavily anytime. Body is supper sensitive along with hot and cold flashes.

From what I described does it sound like I did anything wrong or maybe could do something a little differently?

I want to give props to all the people who have jumped off at 1.5mg-1mg. I do not see how you did it. I am at 1.8 and could not imagine jumping right now. I work full time and go to school full time at night so I have to be very careful I don't screw myself doing this. I thought the taper up to this point would be a walk in the park, but it has proven to be a little more than that for some reason.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:58 am 
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Hello,

Day 4 or 5 of the liquid taper. Everyone here says to listen to your body and mine is telling me that it is nit very happy. I am not exactly sure why this last taper has been so difficult but I have a plan which many others here have done. It may be better for me to try and confuse my body a little by switching about the doses.
I have been on (or trying to) stabilize on 1.8mg without success. One of my earlier posts explains what I probably did wrong for this to be such as issue. I plan on taking 2mg today (split dose) and 1.8 tomorrow, followed by 2 then back to 1.8. I hope this will help tapering be more of a smooth road.
IF i didn't work full time as a social worker and go to school full time for grad school I would bite the bullet and jump now but that is not an option.
Due to my pain issues I could stay on subs for a long time or even go back to the full antagonists, but as a social worker how can i expect my clients with substance abuse issues to stay clean if I cannot even get myself clean. I am 35 years old and my wife is a ex model and a great person but she does not understand anything about what this is like. No body in my life does and due to my job I have to be very careful who I share things with so I only post here.

Thanks to all who read and post.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:46 am 
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Hi Aruga, I hope your taper is going better. How has it been this past week?

I can only imagine that working full time as a social worker plus going to grad school makes it tough to be tapering right now, but I'm sure you will succeed over time if you keep at it.

I have to disagree with you characterizing yourself as not clean, unless you are abusing your suboxone. You obviously have chronic pain, yet you're tapering while carrying the fullest schedule possible! You couldn't do all of that and not be in recovery at the same time. I see no conflict with helping your clients see their own potential in recovery and being where you are on your sub journey. Your clients are fortunate that they are dealing with someone who has some perception of what they're going through.

I hope you continue to update us!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:47 am 
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Hello,

I enjoyed reading your post Amy. Thank you for the kind words and thoughtful insight.
The past few days have been much better. I obviously dropped too fast and in combination with unequal film strips then switching over to the liquid method my system was out of wack.
Now I can wake up and not crave my dose (immediately), I am going to listen to the people of this forum and drop at a much slower rate. .1mg every 7 days would be ideal until i get down to 1 mg. Then dropping.5 or .25 all the way down.

As for being a social worker and dealing with clients I agree with what you said Amy. Having experienced opiate addiction at the hands of medical professionals will definitely make me a more empathetic person. This is impossible to relate to unless you have been through it. I just really strongly feel that I can serve my clients better after this process is complete. As for the pain issues the opiates/suboxen have been masking it for so long I am anxious to see how I feel being off everything. Since my back locked up the other day it is now back to normal and i am experiencing very little discomfort. (yayy)

I am in this for the long haul and will continue to update my progress. Since it took so long to stabilize on this last drop I plan on staying at 1.8 for about 5 more days then dropping to 1.7 for 7 days ect…

Thanks to all who read and post. It actually makes my day when I see someone has posted in my thread. This is the only place I can discuss what I am going through with other people.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:53 am 
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Hi Aruga!

You are doing quite well with your taper. I believe it's not very likely a person can taper too slow, but I do think they could taper too quickly at times. You are figuring out how it best for you and that's makes the difference.

I made a few slight adjustments along the way as I reduced my dose. I was feeling quite well so I did speed things up at the end and it all worked out for me. Not saying that's what you should consider, only letting you know how it was for me personally. I would continue just as you are now. You realize it's beneficial to wait until your stable before reducing further and that's what you should do. Great job!

Keep pushing forward and remember that your getting off drugs so things should not really be a complete cakewalk for the most part. A few bumps along the way should really be expected. I honestly believe that if a person tapers slow and steady, while remaining positive, any symptoms are entirely manageable right to the end. You are doing it!

Karen


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:58 am 
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Hey Karen,

Thanks for the post and encouragement. I appreciate it. I read your thread and was very impressed with your taper and strong resolve.

Congratulations on being suboxen free and on your engagement. Good things happen to good people.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:51 pm 
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Day 6 on 1.6 which has not been that bad at all. Have been mixing 10ml with an 8mg tab for .8mg per 1 ml, split dose. I had the flu and decided to stay at 1.6 a few more days than normal.
I find the split dose really does help make this process a lot easier IMO.

I plan on dropping down to 1.4 once this last mix is finished in 4 days. This is definitely a slow process and I can see how many people would not make it unless you really want too,

I am looking forward to posting my next drop.

thanks to all who read and post.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Hey Aruga. Nice to hear from you again!

Looks like your taper is going very well. Keep up the good work. I hope you can continue to post updates because there aren't many that use the liquid method of taper, and the more info we can have on it here the better in my opinion.

Yes, it's a slow process, but one that will certainly benefit you at the end when you make your final jump. Take care of yourself and again it's very nice to hear from you!

Karen


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Thanks for the reply Karen.

I just dropped again. I decided to not drop as much as I have been so I mixed a 8mg tab in 11.5 ml of water which equals almost .7mg per 1 ml of H2O; split dose.

So far so good. Reading other peoples stories on here can really start to worry you. So many people complain about RLS and different PAWS symptoms for weeks after stopping? When I first started this taper I was under the impression that if you did a slow taper and jumped at .25 or less you would be pretty much home free, but that does not seem to be the case.

I was thinking that it may be smart before your final jump to does every other day, then every 2 days, then every 3 days up to 5-7 days total. Wouldn't this help eliminate some of the unwanted symptoms or would it just prolong the inevitable.

Thanks to all who read and post.

aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:53 pm 
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Hello Aruga,

Glad the taper is going well for you. I will say you can really get yourself all worked up reading the horror stories that seem to be everywhere about difficult times during a taper. They sure scared me when I came here also. I had already tapered from 24mg down to 2mg and tried to jump from there. Wrong move for me, and I read too many stories about tapering and got really frightened. Turns out I should have left them alone. I was scared over nothing.

I reduced slow and methodical and had probably the easiest time imaginable with a taper. Of course there were a few little bumps along the way, but it was all easily manageable, and didn't stop me in the least. The taper and jump itself was extremely smooth for me. Now a couple months or so after I was off I did experience some paws in the form of several days of extreme anger, which is the exact opposite of my personality, and some very intense cravings that came out of nowhere. But this did pass and I have been doing excellent ever since. I'm almost at 6 months since my last dose of subs and couldn't be happier! So just form your own opinion and leave the bad news alone if you can.

aruga wrote:
I was thinking that it may be smart before your final jump to does every other day, then every 2 days, then every 3 days up to 5-7 days total. Wouldn't this help eliminate some of the unwanted symptoms or would it just prolong the inevitable.
You can certainly try dosing every other day at the end if you wish. May provide you with an easier time of it. Some like to use the day-skipping process where you dose then skip 1 day, dose and skip 2 days, dose again and skip 3 days, dose one final time and that's it, finished! The day-skipping process will get you use to be off the sub for first 1 day, then 2, 3, 4 and for good. Might be very beneficial for you!

Your doing awesome! Keep up the good work. Please continue to update because like I said earlier, not many use the liquid taper, and I'm sure your helping many as you continue reducing your dose. Take care and chat with you later.

Karen :D


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