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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:34 pm 
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That's the truth Aruga, Subs is a very strange drug, and it seems to affect everyone differently at low doses.

I was experience some emotional turbulence as I got down toward .15, so I just needed to get off the stuff, and I'm glad I jumped when I did.

If you're lowering your dose in small amounts, and feeling fine, no harm in staying with a slow taper. Until the very end, I was coming down in fairly large drops, 1/3rd or 1/4th at a time.

I think you just come to a point where you say, ok, time to get off. You'll know it when you get there, I think.

-- ji

aruga wrote:
Thanks for the replies johnny_ikon and Trainer.

That is great advice from you both and I will check out the thread you mentioned on the supps. That's odd about the supps possibly causing you (Trainer) to sweat. For me that would be the biggest tell tell sign with my work, so that is what I am trying to avoid.

Jonny, from your experience and what you have read, if you had to do it again would you still jump at .15 or try to go lower? I do not know if trying to get down to .025 ect.. would make any difference in the overall scheme of it? The biological view makes me think it would since it is a lower dose, but sub is a very odd drug and once you get down to a cetain dosage, going lower may not make a substancial difference?

I will keep posting as it definately helps to hear support from people who have gone through this.

Thanks again

Aruga

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:28 pm 
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I am going to post more here so I can have a details of my experience to look back on when this is over. Hopefully it may help someone else too.

So I am stopping the split doses. Last night I tossed and turned, chill bumps to sweating, and my legs started to hurt. So I say to myself, self.. if you just dosed this morning @ 7:30a.m. and had 1 ml extra (.18mg) and you are having these symptoms already it may be a rough week or 2. I took my new full dose of .12mg @ 3:30a.m. and fell right asleep. Little glimpse of what is to come I guess, but getting off subs will be worth it.

My last dose will be 8-4-14. I plan on working Tuesday & Wednesday and taking off Thursday & Friday. I am lucky not to have to work on weekends so that will allow for approximately 6 days to hopefully get through the worst part as I have to return to work the following Monday. My wife is going out of town that week and I think i will do better on my own, at least in the beginning.

10% reductions starting tomorrow and continuing every day until jump day. That may not help, but it is better in my mind. It's all in your head right, or mostly. This is probably a very dumb question, but I only have 8mg generic tabs. Spltting them perfectly in half is a challenge, much less equal quarters.

If I want to reduce 10% from .12 that would be a .102 reduction equaling .108. How the heck do I get that amount? What is the math if you use less than 1ml? I always sucked at algebra. If I draw .8ml of H2O in a mix that would normally be .061 per 1 ml, what would the dose be?

Great info on going to the sauna 1 week prior and during the detox period. I am going to do that along with exercise, and eating the foods mentioned to help speed this up.

We will see how it goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:19 am 
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JUMP DAY!!!

I’m excited, but I think I have read to many threads with people having a hell of a time, which has my mind going crazy.

Because I suck at math I am not sure what dosage I jumped from. I stopped split dosing on 7/29. I was taking 4mg sub mixed with 65ml H2O for .12 total; i was taking 2ml doses which equaled .12 or .06 per 1 ml. I dropped down to 1.6ml from the same mix above, whch was my last dose...if anyone knows what dose that would be I would really like to know as I do not think subtracting .004 from .12 is accurate, but it may be?

My last dose was last night around 7:30p.m. EST. So of course I feel fine now and am at work. I took off Thursday, Friday and Monday just in case. It may have been more intelligent to take off next Monday - Wednesday? I guess time will tell. Like I have posted before, I work with a TON of medical professionals so it is crucial that I am strategic so I do not look like I am in complete W/D's. IF the half life of subx is around 30ish hours then would you be clean in 5-6 days?

My wife is out of town for 10 days, which I think is best due to her not really understanding this.
All I know is compared to coming off 80mg off Opana (oxymorphine) this should be a walk in the park. I have 2 dogs to keep me company and they must have exercise or they go crazy so that should help keep me moving. I am still debating on joining a gym for the steam room/sauna advantage. I normally work out at home and hate to pay the one-time fee plus 1 month membership, but it may be worth it. Others have stated it is.

I will probably be posting here a lot because I have no other support so thanks in advanced to all who read and post.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:24 am 
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Hey Aruga! Congrats on "Jump day"! Sure hope my thread was not one that scared you :) It is really not that bad (not "fun" but it is manageable) and sounds like you are prepared! And if you are like most of us that have been "ready" and made the jump, I'm sure you will be feeling better than you have in awhile in a very short time- just a matter of days! Take it a day at a time-
Keep posting! I am cheering for you!!
BF

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:37 am 
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Hi Aruga, congrats on starting your jump. I'm excited for you (I'm on day 40 of my jump).

I jumped at roughly the same dose (around .15 mg/day), which I had been on for only four days. I definitely noticed withdrawals on Day 1, but I put in a work day, and it was manageable. Every day got better after Day 1 for me.

Definitely keep posting. I won't blow smoke out my ass and predict that this will be the easiest thing you ever do, but I'm sure it'll be easier than you think, and nowhere near as bad as your might fear, not even close. If your experience is like mine, you'll realize right away that jumping was the right thing to do, and you'll start to enjoy the amazing benefits of being totally clean.

Good luck!

-- ji

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Thanks JI. That is definitely ENCOURAGING to hear. I know this experience differs per individual, but I am hoping for the best and prepared for the worst (I think). Either way there is no turning back. I look forward to being on Day 40 and posting some encouraging words to someone who is where I am now. Thank you for that.

And BF, it was most certainly not your thread. Your thread had a ton of great info in it. It is good to hear from people who jumped around similar doses and that it was not as bad as they expected. I appreciate the kind words and for you taking the time to post.

I plan on eating a big dinner tonight and getting through work tomorrow then I will have 5 days of freedom and not having to worry about taking a dose. That has to be a great feeling once you make it to that point....no more doses...

I definitely cannot say anything bad about subs. They helped me get through Opana withdrawal on day 3, and without subs it is hard to say where I would be right now. The only complaint I can make about my taper is the pain that came out from the grave. A back injury and a fool of a Dr. is what started this journey. Subs definitely helped with pain bc before I got below 2 mgs my back did not hurt. Hell I actually thought it had gotten better, but now it hurts like a SOB. Stretches and heating pads ect.. will have to do and maybe once my brain receptors heal the pain won’t be as bad. I would rather have manageable pain than be dependent on any drug. I know that for sure now.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:24 am 
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DAY 2.

The first day was nothing to complain about, especially if you compare it to the w/d's from a full antagonist. Walk in the park. Did not sleep as well as normal and had some CRAZY very vivid dreams, but no problem.

I have to get through this day off work and then I do not work again until Tuesday.....so 7.5 hours to go.

I had a thought. I do not want to give out to many details about myself online, but I do work at a level 1 trauma hospital. So today I am going to take a walk around the ICU, cancer ward and maybe even the NICU (breaks my heart every time) to have a reminder of what real pain and trauma is. These poor people are fighting for their life and I am worried about not sleeping well for possibly 7-10 days. It is time to give myself a reality check.

My body felt a little ruff this morning so I took a nice hot bath and felt much better. I also have one of those big tubs with the jets in it that I never use, but am going to start.

I am sure this will get more challenging as the days progress. My weakness is not sleeping, but I am going to stay the course and make this a memory. I cant wait for my wife to return in 9 days so I can say the worst is over (hopefully) just to see her face light up.

Will report back later. Thanks to all who read and post. Support is needed and appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:09 am 
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aruga wrote:
DAY 2.

So today I am going to take a walk around the ICU, cancer ward and maybe even the NICU (breaks my heart every time) to have a reminder of what real pain and trauma is. These poor people are fighting for their life and I am worried about not sleeping well for possibly 7-10 days. It is time to give myself a reality check.

My body felt a little ruff this morning so I took a nice hot bath and felt much better. I also have one of those big tubs with the jets in it that I never use, but am going to start..


Hey Aruga- Congrats on Day 2!! You are doing it!!
I think what you wrote here^^^^^^ is awesome!! Getting the focus off "ourselves" and onto others is IMO one of the major things that will keep us sober, and here you are feeling compassion for others on the cusp of your own "suffering" which I totally agree- needs to be kept in perspective! I have read many memoirs of Holocaust survivors, and I kept thinking of what those poor people endured when I was at the worst of my wdls...the human spirit can withstand quite a bit of suffering....too bad so many have to though. I'm sure those in the cancer ward will appreciate a compassionate person coming through today...good for you.
Yes, hot baths will be your friend!!! I also have a jacuzzi tub and was in their quite often, even multiple times a night during the first few days- helps quite a bit!
Keep posting!
:D BF

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:56 pm 
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Hi aruga, by the time you go back to work you will hopefully be noticing a steady improvement. Day 1 and 2 were the 'worst' for me (though totally manageable), and I started picking up steadily after that. By day 4/5 I was able to go out and do social things for the day.

Good luck with the rest of day 2

-- ji

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:13 am 
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DAY 3.

Yesterday was not that bad. I walked about 3 miles in 90 degree heat, which was not very smart. Only symptoms I had were sneezing and runny nose until around 9:00 when my legs felt like they were run over by a truck. After a nice soak in the Jacuzzi tub, my legs were felt much better. I slept from 11:00p.m. - 7:30a.m.. I woke up right before my alarm clock normally goes off.

Only symptoms this morning are a a very runny nose and lots of sneezing. I had to go deal with the Collision Center who is fixing my car. Some 28 year old kid hit by 6 month old Subaru STI. Insurance fixed everything with new OEM parts, but are fighting me to the death about the wheels that were damaged...long story, which I do not want to get into..but stay away from STATE FARM......

I plan on relaxing and reading some REBT and CBT psychology and behavior mod books, which really help detox situations IMO, and many other things. It is half mental and anyone going through this who does not know about REBT (Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy) by Albert Ellis needs to google it or watch one of his you tube videos.

Hey JI.. If day 1 & 2 were your worst then I am praying that I have seen my worst......, but after reading too many threads I do not feel like I have had as hard of a time (yet) as others. When did sleep become an issue for people jumping at .15 or lower?

Thanks again to everyone who posts.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:09 am 
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DAY 4

Last night the legs were throbbing again so a 104 degree soak made them feel a lot better. Lots of sneezing and runny nose, but no big deal. I definitely feel weak now. I managed to walk around. 1.5 miles last night, but it was tuff.

I was able to sleep about7-8 hours so I can't complain. Today my body feels more sensitive then ever. Hot flashes to chill bumps and a hell of a headache. I feel so weak I have no desire to move yet.

Nothing else to report other than I can't wait for this to be a memory.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:55 pm 
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The hot baths are a miracle. They got me through the worst nights in the beginning of my jump and wds and I still take them now but after a hard workout at the gym instead of for wds & rls!

You are so lucky you have a jacuzzi tub. I want one so bad. Hang in there! This will be over before you know it!


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:24 am 
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DAY 5

Yesterday I felt more energetic as the day progressed. I did not work out or do any walking, but I did get out and do a few things. Still sneezing and runny nose. Nice hot bath helped again and I was able to sleep 8 hours. I really feel blessed to have been able to sleep so far.
There is definitely the mental and emotional part of this roller coaster that anyone doing this needs to be prepared for. Along with the 2 behavioral mod styles I mentioned before I forgot to mention NLP(neuro linguistic programming). There is a ton of info on this, but I think Tony Robbins explains it very simplistic in his book unlimited power.
Fortunately I am not an addict, but am definitely opioid dependent. IMO you must change your behavioral patterns along with your physical routine to make this process easier on your mind, body and soul. I have been taking a 1 a day vitamin, 3 fish oil gel tabs a day, and klonopin to help sleep. Klonopin may not be best for people with severe substance abuse problems and should only be used short term, but it has really helped me so far. It could be the only reason I have been sleeping??

Thanks for posting Trainer. Your thread is so inspiring bc you had a hell of a time and still did it. People like you give hope to us all. You are very impressive and emotionally strong.

So far when I woke up today I am actually hungry, but my stupid refrigerator has been out and is waiting on a part, so I guess I need to get up and get some food in me. I feel that I have a little more energy compared to yesterday. I still do not know if I have seen the worst, but everything so far has been very manageable.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:03 pm 
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Hi aruga, some people are getting worse withdrawal symptoms around day 5, but other people -- like me -- had the worst of it during the first couple days, then got steadily better. I think a low dose jump may have something to do with, as well as how long you were on your lowest dose (the shorter the better, but that's just my theory).

Anyways, hope you are one of the lucky ones, and will just keep getting better.

Good luck.

-- ji

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:34 am 
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DAY 7

Day 6 was not bad, minus a hangover. 3 friends I have known over 15 years came over and we had some drinks. It was the best thing that could have happened and emotionally I feel much better.

I have still been sleeping well. Now I am barely sneezing, and the runny nose has stopped. My legs no longer hurt like they were. I still do not have the full energy level as normal, but I feel good enough to start working out again and to return to work tomorrow. I am glad I took 3 days off.

I will keep posting as it feels really good to be on day 7. First time in 4 years I have been opioid free.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:36 pm 
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aruga wrote:
DAY 7

Day 6 was not bad, minus a hangover. 3 friends I have known over 15 years came over and we had some drinks. It was the best thing that could have happened and emotionally I feel much better.

I have still been sleeping well. Now I am barely sneezing, and the runny nose has stopped. My legs no longer hurt like they were. I still do not have the full energy level as normal, but I feel good enough to start working out again and to return to work tomorrow. I am glad I took 3 days off.

I will keep posting as it feels really good to be on day 7. First time in 4 years I have been opioid free.

Aruga

Congrats on a week! Good for you!! It just gets better and better (day 47 now I think for me). Good luck going back to work- the time should pass more quickly there for you.
:D BF

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:56 pm 
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DAY 8

Nothing bad to report. I still don't feel 100%, but I feel my experience has been very positive. I do not know how I was able to sleep and not have as bad symptoms as others who have jumped around the same dosage, but I definitely feel blessed. My stomach is still not right, I get cold chills and some occasional hot flashes. The sneezing, runny nose, and leg pain symptoms are almost gone.

Work was fine and it wasn't bad at all to go back. I worked out tonight fir the first time in 8 days and it felt great. I work out with weights and have 3 different punching bags for cardio/speed.

I am only 8 days in and I guess things could still turn south, but I feel and hope the worst is over.

I appreciate everyone who took the time to post and provide encouragement. I may skip a few days between posts unless something substantial happens.

Thank you to this forum. The liquid taper method is pure genius, and is the reason I was able to do this

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:46 pm 
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Punching bags sound good, there were a few things I wanted to hit early on in my jump.

Things could go south, but probably wont , not if you are steadily improving.

Good luck.

-- ji

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:09 pm 
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Day 20

Still going. No real problems to report. Sleep was an issue for 3 days last week, but I do not think it had anything to do with lack of subs. Stress can be a bitch, but nothing I can't handle. Still taking a 1 a day multi vitamin, fish oil and working out hard, which all seem to really help.

Cut down on the klonopin to 1/2 mg at night, which is normal for me. Some days I still feel a lack of energy or hot/cold flashes, but this is to be expected and is nothing that would ever make me go back to using subs. My back hurts like crazy, but I am hoping once my receptors repair themselves the pain levels will go down. Pain will be my biggest obstacle to stay off opiates, but I will never take subs again. Don't get me wrong as subs really did help me get through a tuff time, but I will never be opiate dependent again.

Lots of bad things going on in the world, so I feel blessed that my biggest concerns are small and meager when compared to.

Slow taper worked great for me and I would recommend the liquid taper to anyone wishing to get off subs.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:55 pm 
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Congrats on 20 days! Great job!
:D BF

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