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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:14 pm 
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Karen, you are fantastic. Thank you for the post..again.
I like your thread because there are not horror stories involved. You seemed too have a great taper and final jump. Im glad you did.
The day skipping process you just described is exactly what I was thinking. I will try it, but first I have to get down to .25 which seems to be taking forever.
I read somewhere that .25 mg of sub is equivalent to 8mg of oxycodone. If that is true I find it very surprising. Wouldn't the bioavailability rate make the sub less potent due to the loss of sublingual absorption?

Time for class after a hard day of work. Boooo

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:43 pm 
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That sounds Very smart. Towards the end of your taper, try to work around the Buprenorphine Half life, which is around 35 hours. If I had the time to taper like you are I would have. I've read a lot about this method, and it seems like it cuts out the PAWS. good luck Aruga 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:54 pm 
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Thanks Hope. Cutting down or out the PAWS would be fantastically awesome.

I decided to drop again today so I mixed 1 8mg tab into12ml of H2O = .66mg per 1ml - split dose. so I am at 1.32mg. I was not feeling any negative effects from my last drop so I decided to drop again instead of staying at the same level for another 5 days. If my math is wrong please tell me...

It's exciting to be so close to getting below 1mg.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:16 pm 
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You are doing AWESOME, Aruga! :D You should be excited. I remember how I felt once I got near that 1mg dose mark. I was so proud of myself, and kept thinking the finish line was finally in sight. I would just say to keep the reductions fairly steady, and not rush it ok. It's soooo easy to want to get it over with and rush a drop or two, or the time between reductions. If your ready then by all means make that next reduction, but if your body lets you know another day or so would be better, then listen to it. You will know when the time is right to reduce.

I told you that your helping others....I wish I knew how many were out there reading along and following your liquid taper, having the same great results you are? I bet there's quite a few. Your getting there, a day at a time! Good stuff here! :D

Karen xoxo

p.s. your math is golden! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:24 pm 
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Thank you for the encouragement Karen.

Your thread was a huge help to me and I bet a ton of people have followed your journey. It does make you wonder how many people (lurkers) read our threads and are stopping themselves. It feels good to think this is helping other people.

Thanks for posting again. I really appreciate your insight.

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:57 pm 
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It is bad when you are to busy to update your own thread.

I am still tapering down. I am now at 1 8mg tab in 16ml of water equaling .5mg split dose. So I am now at 1mg a day.
no problems at all to report. I am thinking of adding 1-2ml H2O every 5-7 days to speed this up a little bit as it is taking forever.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:20 pm 
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I'm glad to hear that you're doing so well! It probably wouldn't hurt to speed things a little bit if it doesn't make the taper too hard on you. If it does, then go back on your previous track. I know it's hard to be patient in this situation, but you will reap the benefits on the other end when you come off suboxone with few withdrawal symptoms!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:42 pm 
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Thanks Amy.

I mixed 18ml water with a 8mg pill for .44 mg per 1ml..split dose.. I finally made it below 1 mg.

Question for those that have been through this. I only have 8mg generic pills. They are nearly impossible to cut perfectly in half, much less quarters. Dosing with 1ml of water gets enough water in your mouth for this process to work sufficiently.. How little water can you use to effectively dose yourself?
And would the math be the same.. meaning if i only dose .8mg of water would be the same of adding 2 ml of water to my solution? I was never any good at math.....

Ohh. Last question.. Is it a good idea to stop split dosing or should I keep splitting all the way to the end?

Thanks to all who read and post

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Down again. 20 ml with 1 8mg tab for .4mg per 1ml of water. split dose of .8mg per day.

You can feel each drop, its just not bad at all (at least not yet). It is a true eye opener as to how powerful this drug is. This liquid taper method is the way to go and I thank the members of this forum for posting it. You have helped me a lot. I don't see how people drop at 1 mg or even .5. It's no wonder you read all these horror stories. I can't find one really bad experience with a person who did a slow taper and dropped at .25mg or lower.
My plan is still the same.. Get down to .25 or lower then start skipping days then JUMP.

I am going to pick up the pace a little. Doing the math if I am only adding 2ml of water every 5-8 days then I will have to get to over 50ml before i can consider jumping. For me that is way to long. If I did a 50% reduction by eliminating one of my split does now it may cause a few days of hell, but it would be more helpful in the long run.... wouldn't it?

My question from the last post still remains. When should I stop split dosing? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks to all who read and post.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:20 am 
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Down again. 25ml with 1 8mg tab = .32 split dose for a grand total of .64.
Had a slight set back so I have not dropped again and I have been to lazy to update my own thread.


My question still remains.. When should you stop split dosing and go to a single dose? OR should you?


Last edited by aruga on Thu May 01, 2014 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:36 am 
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As long as you continue lowering your overall daily dose, there probably is no need to stop the split dosing.

The only advantage to single day dosing for you would be preparing your brain for one less daily dose of medication. Once off Suboxone altogether, you will most likely miss, maybe even crave, those doses. Eliminating one of those doses now puts you that much further ahead for when you do quit Suboxone.

Bottom line, though......continue doing what works for you. You may need twice a day dosing until you jump?

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:09 pm 
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Still here....

Down to 1 8mg tab mixed with 65 ml of water for a total of .24 mg split does = .12 mg.

Thanks for the response Romeo. Good comments and makes sense.

Wish I had some 2 mg tabs. My next batch is gong to have a 4mg tab mix, as i am going to cur the thing as precise as possible.

No bad symptoms to report. Nice and slow is the way to do this, IMO.

My goal is to be jump on 8/4/14. Now that I have stated an jump date lets see if I can achieve it.
Honestly I could probably jump now, but I have read too many reports of bad PAWS, so my thinking is why not go lower for awhile longer. After my next drop I will stop split dosing.

Goal for next drop is 4mg mixed with 55 ml of water for a total .14mg, which is more than a 25% reduction, but I will give it a shot. It couldn't be as bad as jumping now.

Thanks to all who read and post


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:45 am 
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aruga wrote:
Still here....

Down to 1 8mg tab mixed with 65 ml of water for a total of .24 mg split does = .12 mg.

Thanks for the response Romeo. Good comments and makes sense.

Wish I had some 2 mg tabs. My next batch is gong to have a 4mg tab mix, as i am going to cur the thing as precise as possible.

No bad symptoms to report. Nice and slow is the way to do this, IMO.

My goal is to be jump on 8/4/14. Now that I have stated an jump date lets see if I can achieve it.
Honestly I could probably jump now, but I have read too many reports of bad PAWS, so my thinking is why not go lower for awhile longer. After my next drop I will stop split dosing.

Goal for next drop is 4mg mixed with 55 ml of water for a total .14mg, which is more than a 25% reduction, but I will give it a shot. It couldn't be as bad as jumping now.

Thanks to all who read and post


Hey Aruga, I'm also tapering and getting fairly low. Yeah, it gets tricky to get the dosing right as the the mgs get lower, huh? But that is a good "problem" to have, right? I have strips I am cutting as carefully as I can, but I know not "perfectly", so I try to look at the bigger picture and I know more for certain what I've taken over the course of a week, than of a day, KWIM? Congrats on getting to such a low dose! Isn't it a good feeling to know that if you "had" to jump today, much of the "work" is behind you? I agree with you on the slow taper if you can do it. I had thought about jumping the first of this month, but when I tried dropping too fast was hit pretty hard with a few days of depression, which convinced me to slow down. I'll be cheering for you on Aug. 4, and all along the way there! :D
rca


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:40 am 
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Hello all,

I hit my first big bump. My last drop was 4mg tab mixed with 65ml of water for .06mg and a split dose of .12. This was definitely noticeable at first so I dosed around 1.4ml of water then worked my may down. Having a batch of 65ml allows you to mix it up due to the quantity.
I decided my next reduction would be to eliminate one of the doses so I would only be dosing 1 time for .06. Big mistake. Body aches, sweating, irritable ect... SO this morning I said hell with this and dosed 3ml, which would be .18. Still sitting here at work aching and sweating. I take it this will slowly go away?
First, lesson learned. I am going to slow up and listen to what people have said about not reducing more than 25% at a time. Once I level back out I think it may be the easiest to stop split dosing by taking the same amount without any reduction.
What gets me is I have read posts of people jumping from higher doses and not having any problems, especially right out of the gate. I understand this varies per person, but I am still very surprised that a 50% reduction at such a low dose would be so.....(what’s the right word).....uncomfortable.

Thanks to all who read and post

Aruga


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:21 am 
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I just read through Trainer's thread and I it was really motivating. Almost to the point of making me want to just say **** it and jump now, but I still think going a little lower and cutting out the split doses may be a great help in the end. OR it may not make a bit of difference. And Trainer, your thread is great and really helped me. Thanks for positng your experiences.

They jumped at 2mg and i am complaining about .16.....

One problem I have, which may be unique to others is I work around Dr's, nurses, and any other healthcare professional in a lvl 1 trauma hospital. So I could lie and say I am sick if they look at me and wonder why I am drenched in sweat, but these people are not fools.

This is the key question.. Since i stock piled my meds I have not had a prescription since I started this thread. If I were to be drug tested and sub came up, without a prescription I would be screwed right?

I may need to be very strategic and take a week off when I make the final jump. All i can hope for is that taking my time and getting so low will help the wd's and PAWS significantly.


Advice for supps... Just so everyone knows my prescribed meds are Adderall and Klonopin.
I was thinking about eating foods that are rich in amino acids as I have heard this will help replenish some of my of neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin and endorphins. Can this be achieved by a pill or is food the best way to go?

L Tyrosine is supposed to help with energy. Has anyone had good results with this supp?

Omega-3 fatty acids from a fish oil supp may help with mood?

I am trying to get all my ducks in a row so I can do this. My wife is going on vacation with her family in about 9 days, so if I can speed up my taper and take a week off work may be able to pull this off. I have read through a lot of the threads here, but I am hoping someone who has been on a similar dosage can give some good advice on what my best option would be. I think I am ready to do this, and jumping on Aug 8 would be ideal. 10% reductions every 3 days, maybe?


bty.. I feel much better than when i posted about a 1/2 hour ago, but dosing with 3 ml's should have fixed me up.
Thanks again to all who read and post. My wife is half way supportive, but has not clue what this is like and I have nowhere else to go and talk to people about this.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:12 am 
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Hi Aruga, for me, like with a few other people still posting, I jumped when I felt the time was right. It was a decision I made on the spur of the moment, while on .15 mg/day. I had thought about stretching out my taper a couple more weeks, and going down to something like .06 or .05 mg, but I was getting tired of dragging it out.

Once i jumped, I never looked back. First couple days were dodgy, but it got noticeably and steadily better after that.

One thing, it's useful to have other supplements for your detox (and for your taper too). Don't have time to look for it, but I posted a link called 'Detox Strategy' or something like that in 'Stopping Suboxone.' It's a list of many things put together by a doctor who's helped people jump from migh Methadone dose levels. He recommends multi-vitamins, an Adrenal supplement (for energy), and a bunch of other stuff. There are also things he said we should avoid. It's a good post.

I'm now on day 32 of my jump, and I'm really glad I did.

-- ji

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:16 am 
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Hey there! I am glad my thread helped you! Almost 60 days for me and I feel great. Still going strong! Exercise is going to be the best thing for you during your taper and jump. It helped my immensely with sleep, paws (if I had it, I never noticed or realized it) and I also never experienced any depression. I credit that to hard workouts.

I really didn't get into to much supplements. I tried a couple in the very beginning but didn't notice anything different in how I felt. I now take a preworkout supplement and some omega 3 stuff and thats it. I wanted my body to just do it on its own and figure it out.

I did have the sweats 19 days straight and someone (I think it was dirty blonde) said it was the supplements and I dont know if it was coincidence of timing, but when I stopped taking them (an adrenal supplement and a mood supplement), the sweats stopped.

I took absolutely nothing for sleep. I tried benadryl (huge mistake), steer clear of that. I tried melatonin and found it woke me up after 2 or 3 hours so stopped that too. I said "eff it" and went au naturel and sleep returned all by itself about 14 days in.

I would suggest just eating alot healthier if you don't already and adding exercise. Better nutrition will add all those nutrients and vitamins you need. You will probably lose your appetite the first 7 days or so. Buy some Boost meal replacer if you can't eat anything major.

if you can manage a week off, do it! Eliminating the stress of trying to detox and power through a work day feeling less than normal will be a blessing!


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:06 pm 
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Thanks for the replies johnny_ikon and Trainer.

That is great advice from you both and I will check out the thread you mentioned on the supps. That's odd about the supps possibly causing you (Trainer) to sweat. For me that would be the biggest tell tell sign with my work, so that is what I am trying to avoid.

Jonny, from your experience and what you have read, if you had to do it again would you still jump at .15 or try to go lower? I do not know if trying to get down to .025 ect.. would make any difference in the overall scheme of it? The biological view makes me think it would since it is a lower dose, but sub is a very odd drug and once you get down to a cetain dosage, going lower may not make a substancial difference?

I will keep posting as it definately helps to hear support from people who have gone through this.

Thanks again

Aruga


Last edited by aruga on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Since I jumped a couple weeks before JI & BF from a higher dose, reading their progress from a much lower dose tells me its the way to go. They felt much better earlier. For me, things didn't get really tough until the 7th day. I remember posting on the 5th night "tomorrow is day 6, how much worse could it be?". Well I found out! Low and slow is the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Aruga's Taper Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:27 pm 
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Thank you Trainer. You have no idea how much the statement helps.


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