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 Post subject: APPARENTLY I AM ANGRY?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:07 pm 
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I recently posted in "why the anger" forum and I deliberately stirred things up a little and some of the members who responded were very reasonable-I was expecting a different response.I was prompted to post in the anger section for a number of reasons,the primary one being my suboxone doctors manipulative ways; she raises and reraises office visit
costs and demanding cash payment prior to visit (I just finished reading a post in the chronic pain section that indicated
another member had the same issue) I was shocked to my very core when the front desk very coldly imposed this new
rule. My primary care doctor was going to come to the rescue and prescribe sub for pain,thus freeing me from the tyranny
of this suboxone doctor.But the pharmacy will not fill it without the waiver certificate etc....I could go on and on but I am tired
of life revolving around this shit! And when I say shit I mean the doctor, the pharmacy the drug company and the drug itself.
My doctors evil ways have turned on the lights, I see the ugly monstrosity for what it is--a modern tyranny. I will be quitting
buprenorphine in 3-4 weeks.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:18 pm 
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Im sorry to hear you are going through so much shit with your SUB Dr but don’t let one bad Dr ruin or affect your recovery. There are lots of good SUBOXONE Drs who can help you and don’t have crazy payments like that. But when you say you are stopping BUP. I hope that’s not leading to what I think but like I said give a different SUB Doc a chance b4 you do anything that can hurt your recovery.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:24 am 
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Eightmiles - I can relate MORE than you know. To all of it. So I will try to be brief and tell you why and my experience and see if that might not help just a little. At least you hopefully won't feel you are in this alone.

As I indicated in your last thread, my first doctor was a jerk. I was actually told by the department of health that I should have turned him in. He would take my credit card or cash. He wasn't very honest with me about suboxone to begin with. He didn't tell me that I would experience withdrawal if I went off of it. In fact he told me no withdrawal. He also told me no one could get high off suboxone. He monopolized every appointment by talking about himself and his dating life and his other patients. He left confidential information all over his office. When he did pill counts, he touched them with his dirty ass hands and put them back in the bottle. He was regularly more than an hour behind at 9am in the morning (mostly because he really likes talking about himself). He was rude to all of his office staff and to other patients in front of the entire waiting room. He literally felt like a drug pusher when it came to medical marijuana (I don't want any). He couldn't remember anything I told him from one appt. to the next and never wrote it down. He often wrote the scripts wrong so you had to check them before you left and when they were wrong he would often get angry with YOU. On the couple of occasions I got to the pharmacy with the bad script he would yell and scream when I would call to fix it and tell me he wouldn't fix it till the next day. Of course he always filled the script on a day where I only had a half left so that often meant skipping doses in the evening and next day until he did what he said. He gave me a rash of shit about rescheduling when my cousin died at age 23 from a heart attack and I needed to leave town for the funeral. I could go on.

Really, this made me miserable. The pharmacy wasn't good about it when he screwed up the scripts because of course he would blame it on me when he called them. He would often call the pharmacy using a fake asian accent (making fun of the number of asian's who work in the pharmacy) and he would mis-pronounce words and act like he couldn't understand their English. He would do this in front of me. Anyways.....the pharmacy didn't like being jerked around either. It's a long story, but in the end I felt threatened that he might disclose my sub use to my employer. So I felt I couldn't return to see him. (Oh look....I couldn't help but go on).

Anyways, the whole situation made me feel controlled by this drug. I wanted off of it. I was angry about it. I just needed not to live my life around it anymore. So I quit. Cold turkey (because I didn't know it could cause withdrawal anyways). I had a couple surgeries scheduled anyways and just quit. Jumped off 12mg per day.

IN the process, I found this site and learned a lot. Ultimately I decided to go back on suboxone for a variety of reasons. But I learned a lot going through that process. I was very particular about finding a new doctor. I found a great doctor who is professional but warm. She listens. She rarely forgets anything about me. She is accessible. She doesn't treat me like any less of a human being for having gotten addicted to narcotics. She cares about my overall health. The pharmacy is now very nice to me.

My thought process changed through all of this. But a lot of my thinking had a lot to do with the doctor, not the drug itself. His behavior could have killed me if I had relapsed and hadn't found this site. I no longer feel like my life revolves around suboxone any more than any other pill you might be prescribed. I don't feel trapped like I used to or threatened. I feel like my sub doctor is on my side and will help me through any issues I have such as surgery or my other pain conditions. I feel like if I ended up in the hospital, she would educate the other doctors and ensure I was treated well.

I don't know all of your issues with this drug. It sounds like you have some unwanted side effects. I would encourage you to first, search for a doctor you can trust. Once you find that doctor, THEN consider and discuss a tapering plan. Do it WITH the help of the new doctor. That way you at least have some immediate support you will need to do this well. I am afraid if you don't, you might end up feeling even more trapped and more controlled. I am afraid you may wind up very depressed. I am afraid things may get worse....too worse. It isn't that I don't think you can taper. I just think this is best done with a doctor in your court.

If nothing else, I hope you realize that others can relate to your experience. I'm sorry you are going through this right now. The position you are in is a terrible one. It sucks. Hang in there and don't make any rash decisions. Going off sub is one of the biggest decisions of your life and one of the most difficult things you will ever do. Give it the respect it deserves and yourself the respect you deserve going through this.

Take care,

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

- Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:23 pm 
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eightmiles - I just wanted to chime in and say that I agree with what jackcrack has said about the benefit of having a good doctor on your side when you start to taper off of Suboxone.

I don't have a bad doctor story to share, but I did have a good doctor who was supportive of my decision to taper and was supportive of the speed and method that I used to taper off. He prescribed comfort meds that made the transition easier as well. More than anything I think having his support reinforced the idea that I was doing the right thing, that I was ready to do it, and I was made more comfortable knowing that if things went sideways I could go to him with the problem.

Best of luck to you with your taper. I've been off Sub for over a year now, and there are a few other members who are off but have stuck around the forum - please use us as a resource if you want.

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You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

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 Post subject: Doctor
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:27 pm 
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Eightmiles
I can understand your frustration and why you would be angry if that was happening with your doctor. I wanted to say first- that was a great response from Jack and between the two of you I am sure those two doctors have caused a lot of pain in a lot of people's life. So we have to do what we have been taught and that is to get away from the negative things in our lives. I think if I had your doctor I would want the same thing you want and that is to just get out of this whole thing....but it appears the doctor and your feelings toward her is what is making you angry. I have tried to talk myself into stopping suboxone and all the side effects, stigma and everything that goes with it that makes me feel this is just not worth it. But I also know that I don't have another recovery in me....I just can't do it again. So I am down to 6mgs a day now and the side effects have really minimized. This is my second doctor and although I am not completely in love with him he really has helped me......working with my schedule and helping me once when I actually lost my script before filling it. The city I lived in had 28 doctors that could prescribe sub but only two took insurance and they had quite the waiting list. I spent days trying to find a doctor......finally I realized I am on a forum with a bunch of people that take suboxone..surely someone knows of a doctor I could go to. I posted a thread sharing what major city and state I lived near and asked if anyone could share information on a good doctor. Not all are on the directory and new doctors are getting the waiver all the time. Within 4 hours someone emailed me the name and number of a doctor. I called and spoke to his nurse and he called me later that day. Two days later I was at my first appointment with him getting my suboxone.

So whatever decision you make is your decision.....your choice but you may be as surprised as I was when I asked "Does anyone know a good sub doctor in Charlotte"? The responses you get may lead to the next steps in your recovery. Whatever you choose to do....I wish you the best.

Jim


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 Post subject: Demand better service!!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:34 am 
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Nothing new to add really....jackcrack and reraises' posts were very thoughtful. I agree with everyone who says take the time to find a doctor you can trust. They are directing your recovery at this point in some ways and are an important part to our success. I think sometimes we feel stuck, that we need to keep doing whatever is happening...for various reasons: fear, lack of motivation, whatever. But keep looking for a different prescriber. Interview THEM, turn it around! Make THEM work for their money. You may not have that luxury based on how many prescribers in your area but I think we need to demand better service in this area. We have a chemical dependency and addiction problem. We are not mass murderers and my thought is, at least for me, that I am NOT going to allow any more "professionals" or lay people to treat me like I am sub human. Obviously I won't shoot myself in the foot, leave before I secure another prescriber, or piss them off to the point they fire me but if I was unhappy I'd be doing the footwork to change things. (Not that you aren't doing that....)

This is a bit off topic but relates in a round about way....when my mother was going through breast cancer treatments she would just do whatever the dr and insurance company said. She'd pay claims that they denied instead of fight it or try again or resubmit or ask her dr. I had to teach her that she didn't need to just go along every time....(and it was before she lacked energy and was really sick obviously later in her disease it really was not the priority). She'd be unhappy with something the dr. did or unsure of what he said and yet she wouldn't help herself. Maybe a generational thing, i don't know. But eventually she realized that they were working for HER, not the other way around. She didn't want to make it "difficult" for them! Wow, wonder where I got my people pleasing behavior, huh? She finally started asking for what she needed....and it changed how they managed her care. I didn't want to get too involved and pretend to micromanage her physicians but i wanted her to realize she didn't have to just put up with whatever they chose to do.

Same here....maybe for a while we put up with some things but it we don't demand that we are treated humanly and respectfully then it might not happen. And by demand I don't mean angrily or meanly. I mean that we teach people how to treat us. If we expect it, we'll get it. If we allow it, it will continue to happen.

Ok, I better shut up....going off on a soapbox that will no doubt piss me off!

Good luck finding the right person to prescribe for you and remember it is your recovery and to not let anyone else sabotoge it for you.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Thank you for the valuable feedback. I have a similar story to jackcrack,I will tell it soon.
I have a strong desire to break my physical dependence.I simply feel too vulnerable needing
a medication that is so critical for me to survive.I don't meean to sound like chicken little but
ever since I started subutex/suboxone I have obsessed over the 'what ifs';what if world war three
hits and it is no longer available and I have to defend myself? Though world war three is not a common
concern of mine, the availability and the vulnerable state I would be left in without my suboxone is.

The tyrannical 'sub' doctor,that I will be obtaining my final script from tomorrow, has forced these fears
to the surface and I must evaluate things with this in mind: Is suboxone a necessity for me? Six months
ago i would answer yes!But the general state of affairs in my personal life and the way that things are going
in our country and more pointedly my cruel doctor have combined to change my mind. If my primary
care doctor could script subutex (he is willing but the pharmacy told him that he could not,even for pain, w/out
special waiver, such is the extent of dis-infrmation with suboxone,even among professionals.) I am going to
discuss this issue with my primary care doctor once more.
The lack of correct data,the myths surrounding suboxone with and the dis-proportionally lousy doctors
have all contributed to an angry and intolerant,albeit,irrational atmosphere.I fully endorse chinagirls attitude
and I think that suboxone patients should try and get along and should do all they can to present a united
front that entirely independent.This goes deep,but one can find indications of the health and freedom of a
society by observing drug laws. I am not going to let this doctor push me around,I am still debating whether
or not to go to my appointment tomorrow,.......I only have 2 tabs left.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:13 pm 
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Again, I totally understand. I actually got so mad that I made certain I cancelled my last appointment with my sub doc. I made sure that I gave him the required 24 hours notice. I told him he couldn't charge me. He, of course, pitched a fit. We ended up in a phone texting war. It basically ended with me telling him to grow up and act like a professional. He continued texting me and I asked him to please stop and not text me again. Then...just to have the last word (AS ALWAYS) he texted again and said if I texted him anymore HE would consider it harrassment. :roll: :roll: :roll:

So it began because I was then out of suboxone and had no doctor. It was okay at the time because I wanted off suboxone. My life was in order. My husband knew I was going off of it. I did well the first 2-3 days and was a little uncomfortable on day three but it was ok. By day 5-7 it was rough. I wasn't sleeping at all. Cravings were insane. It wasn't nearly as bad as full agonist withdrawal but I realized it doesn't matter how well you have your shit together when you hit that point because it is rough. I didn't miss any work, but I certainly wasn't nearly as effective or as good at work. I ended up hitting the ER for comfort meds which helped. It seemed to take forever for the insomnia and fatigue to go away. The fatigue and social isolation never really did go away. I ended up getting some vicodin from a friend to help get through withdrawals. Not a lot but it helped. Then I had surgery and took vicodin which didn't kill the pain but it did help with the fatigue a little. All in all, it was just not good though. I was confused. I couldn't think straight. I was just all over the place. I didn't have a doctor to bounce things off of. I didn't even know I could go back on suboxone after stopping like that. I wasn't on any drugs. What sub doc would prescribe when I had a clean drug test right?

The problem was that I was in a bind and needed my options to be open so I could more easily decide if I wanted to go back on or stay off of it. Instead, I felt trapped. I felt totally out of control. I felt like a failure. It wasn't good.

Please do not make the same mistakes I made. I cancelled that last appointment because at the time I felt like I had too much self respect to allow myself to be treated like that one more time. I just couldn't do it. But I should have had enough self respect to suck it up, get a new doctor, and do it right so I could be successful.

I also understand not liking being dependent on a drug. Back then, I thought the same way. I still have those feelings and thoughts at times. I am totally afraid of situations like what you mentioned. Not world war three so much but many other circumstances. I know for me, I had to stop suboxone and go through my own experiences and come to my own decisions about how I feel being on suboxone. The only reason I am glad that I stopped taking sub was because I really had a chance to sit down and evaluate ALL of that. It also gave me the chance to evaluate it iwth my husband and his feelings changed about it in the end as well. You may come to different conclusions for yourself. I am here for you as you go through this. I hope you will use us for support.

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

- Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:07 am 
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THANKS JACKCRACK.I ADMIRE YOUR COURAGE AND I THINK YOU WOULD DO FINE IF WORLD WAR THREE BROKE OUT.
I DON'T THINK I COULD FUNCTION AS WELL AS YOU WHILE WITHDRAWING.

I WENT TO THE SUBOXONE DOCTOR TODAY TO PICK UP MY LAST PRESCRIPTION(THEORETICALLY) I HAD ENOUGH TIME
TO THINK ABOUT THE SITUATION ANDE CONSIDERED THAT THIS DOCTOR WILL PAY IN SOME WAY FOR HER MISTREATMENT
OF THE VULNERABLE.THAT ALONE DOES NOT EXONERATE ME I FEEL A TINGE OF SELF LOATHING FOR PAYING HER AND SUB-
MITTING TO HER PRACTICE JUST FOR MEDS.THIS IS THE UNIQUE STATE OF AFFAIRS IN THE MAJORITY OF ADDICTION MED-
CINE AND THE RECOVERY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX (IMHO)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:19 am 
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As much as it sucks, I think you probably did the best thing for you at this time. But I still want to read your 4 page book. Can you type it in a word document, copy it, and then just paste it in here real quick so you don't lose it?

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

- Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:17 pm 
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Jackcrack
Yeah I think I did what I had to do as I am not prepared to be sick ,and of course I am glad to have subutex for now.
It's an amazing drug,and too bad that there is so much stigma surrounding it -my primary care doctor who I admire
will not involve himself (with me as an exception and even then only for pain)because of the perceived trouble or increased
scrutiny and govermental over sight that comes with formal involvement.

I plan to hit the road after I finish my subutex taper and endure the first week of withdrawal and as soon as I have some
perspective I am going to write a book. I have been looking for a book that I can never find and this is the one I plan to
write.


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