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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:26 am 
I recieved a pm from a moderator (i think) and it was brought to my attention that the terms I use has offended and misled many. I use the term opiate/dope interchangeably purely out of laziness.

So.. Let me clarify. I am not a suboxone hater. Sub and Meth has saved my life. I don't think I would be here today if it wasn't for both of these opiates. So forgive me if my laziness has stepped on anyones toes. It was not my intention at all. I am not a suboxone hater at all. I was on it for a little over 4 yrs. The only reason I came off was lack of fund sto pay for it when I lost my ins.

Sub allowed me to break many bad habits and allowed me to leave many of my doping life behind me. I do get angry about how most of the sub docs script this med and the cost of the 5 min appointment but really it was better then going weekly to the cilnic for my meth doses. I hated the clinic settings, how we were look at, treated and all the stigma that went with it. So.. even though I think the sub doc's are taking advantage of us addicts.. still beats the clinics.

I will be more careful how I word my post from here on out. The term dope for me just covers all opiates. But trust that I am not a hater of sub/meth. I didn't like all the side affects but when I weight out them with the "side affects" of dope.. (heroin, shooting d's and all).. give me sub any day. I know its difficult to read someone intention when all we have are words. For me, body language tells All ot. Very hard to see body language thru the net. Try not to judge me harshly and I do appreciate the heads up on me offending others I know how that feels. I have been bashed for using iboga for my recovery from way too many. I know just don't respond to those who bash me for it.. really using a drug to fight a drug addiction is true for me. It was just a "end all" to my addiction.

I am here since due to my schedule I can not attend the meetings that I would of and did when not working. I use CRT these days more then the 12 steps.. (not saying anything wrong with 12 steps either, just to clarify) I did get such crap when on sub and shareing that at the 12 step meeting but these guys did not walk my path. I also get crap for bringing up Iboga and if that offend folks here.. I can reframe from that also. It would be harder for me I have to admit.

Let me just add.... NO one can walk in your shoes. No one experienced your life. No one can look into your brain chemistry to see why we chose BMT/MMT. I can only suggest that when someone bashes you for your choices.. ignor them. I am sure many are just trying to be helpful but really... they can not even get close to how we suffer.. Most addicts are the same in many ways.. ie, personality traits, the lying/cheating/stealing we did to keep us from wd'ing. We all have suffered due to our addiction. We all have different threshold of discomforts we can endure. I find that addicts are one of the strongest peeps around. We endure stigma, prejudges, suffered for yrs with active and recovery from active.

Please take my apology in earnest... Not my intent to bash you or suboxone.

Thanks for taking the time to read this... there are many recovery sites around and I can go to them if I cause crap here. I came here because I was a sub user and just wanted to learn more about sub with out the bashing myself. I just found out that my neice is on suboxone. She is only 20 and I have to say I am not sure at her age long term sub should be her answer...really at 20 how much damage could she have done. I am pretty close to her and know that she could not have been in the "life" that long with me knowing. I feel somewhat quilty since I did let her smoke pot in my apt a few yrs back.

Again ... forgive the misunderstanding. If the word dope offends you'll.. I will try to refrain from using its. If I do slip, pls feel free to call me on it. I have not a leg to stand on to judge anyone else.. I am a stright up junkie, my recovery is not flawless by no means.

Capt.

Btw.. someone ask what I am a capt of... I am a tug boat capt but why I use this as my call name.. I am captain of my recovery these days... opiates are no longer my Captain as it was for way too long.

Bless.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:31 pm 
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I just wanted to let you know that I REALLY enjoyed reading your post on your Ibogaine treatment! I have never heard from anyone who has ever done that so for me , it was VERY interesting and thanks so much for sharing!! As far as your neice goes...I am 24 and plan on being on suboxone for a while. I was on opiates for 4 years before subs but before opiates it was alcohol, pot, coke- I was always an addict. I know as long as I'm taking subs I will not pick up this addictive behavior I have had all of my adult (and teenage) life. I do not plan on being on them for the rest of my life, but I really like where I'm at right now and do not wish to change anything. Your niece may be young but she is still and addict and being on subs has got to be better than the other stuff!! Hope everything goes good with her, and you!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:40 pm 
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Thanks Capt,

I appeciate that and I'm happy that you won't be interchanging the word dope for sub anymore.

You obviously have valuable life experiences about addiciton that could be a great boon to many of our members and I hope you decide to stay with us. Our diversity is our strength.

Thanks again and BTW I was the one who asked what you were captain of...I was hoping it was a big ass cruise ship and that you would offer me and my wife a free cruise. Nuts! :D


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:03 pm 
mihonoja wrote:
I just wanted to let you know that I REALLY enjoyed reading your post on your Ibogaine treatment! I have never heard from anyone who has ever done that so for me , it was VERY interesting and thanks so much for sharing!! As far as your neice goes...I am 24 and plan on being on suboxone for a while. I was on opiates for 4 years before subs but before opiates it was alcohol, pot, coke- I was always an addict. I know as long as I'm taking subs I will not pick up this addictive behavior I have had all of my adult (and teenage) life. I do not plan on being on them for the rest of my life, but I really like where I'm at right now and do not wish to change anything. Your niece may be young but she is still and addict and being on subs has got to be better than the other stuff!! Hope everything goes good with her, and you!


My brother and I discussed this.. (of course he is a sub basher) and we feel that at her age suboxone is over kill. Sorta like puting a perc addict of 40mg a day on Methadone. Brother and I prefer a Iboga treatment for her. We are not sure that this Nurse in the states will treat someone that young. I know the clinics do... just not sure of the UG. I owe my Bother and have offered to pay for her treatment. She has to agree to it also or waste of time and money. Once we have all ducks in a row and know what/how long/ doses she is on we will offer this intervention to follow with 30 day rehab. As I said Iboga is not a cure.

I wish only the best for you and your plan of treatment.. for sure better then street opiates. I dont think she is a drinker but know pot is in the picture..Not sure at this time what her doc is or how deep she is into it. That will for sure play into her treatment mode.

Ty for understanding my lack of proper terms.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:11 pm 
Romeo wrote:
Thanks Capt,

I appeciate that and I'm happy that you won't be interchanging the word dope for sub anymore.

You obviously have valuable life experiences about addiciton that could be a great boon to many of our members and I hope you decide to stay with us. Our diversity is our strength.

Thanks again and BTW I was the one who asked what you were captain of...I was hoping it was a big ass cruise ship and that you would offer me and my wife a free cruise. Nuts! :D


LOL>. I was a cpt for a cruise line... lost that job not knowing they test for bupe. I never gave my own urine while using other opiates... though I was safe with bupe after someone told me it dosnt flag as a opiate in 12 panel drug test. Apparently it dosnt but they also recently added Bupe to the drug testing... They did not tell me that and just ask for a repeat after a spot check.... then I saw the different type plastic container they used.... too late to produce a clean urine and lost my job. LOL>. for years I was on Meth and before that H... I gave clean urines knowing it was not acceptable...then actually in a recovery program, busted..


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Wow, that bites. Sorry to hear that, man.


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 Post subject: Iboga
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:30 pm 
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I have to say, I have done LSD and mushrooms back in high school and it seems like iboga is petty similar to an acid trip....and I have had a bad one, so it scares me a little. I guess I feel like I wouldn't be ready for something like that-maybe I'm actually afraid of what I might discover about myself, I don't know...My genes are running rampant with addiction lol....My dad is a long time addict and had a liver transplant in 2001 and got hooked on opiates from that after being sober from alcohol for over 10 years- he got really bad, shooting up oxys, etc...and almost every single person on his side of our family is an addict- 2 of my aunts, my father, and 2 of my cousins are on methadone, another cousin just got out of rehab for alcohol...I feel like I was set up for this kind of, not that I blame anyone, I just hope my sons don't inherit this horrible disease! Do you have other addicts in your family, Capt? I think it's great you are there for your niece because you understand what she's going through! I wish I had support from my family!

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 Post subject: Re: Iboga
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:17 am 
mihonoja wrote:
I have to say, I have done LSD and mushrooms back in high school and it seems like iboga is petty similar to an acid trip....and I have had a bad one, so it scares me a little. I guess I feel like I wouldn't be ready for something like that-maybe I'm actually afraid of what I might discover about myself, I don't know...My genes are running rampant with addiction lol....My dad is a long time addict and had a liver transplant in 2001 and got hooked on opiates from that after being sober from alcohol for over 10 years- he got really bad, shooting up oxys, etc...and almost every single person on his side of our family is an addict- 2 of my aunts, my father, and 2 of my cousins are on methadone, another cousin just got out of rehab for alcohol...I feel like I was set up for this kind of, not that I blame anyone, I just hope my sons don't inherit this horrible disease! Do you have other addicts in your family, Capt? I think it's great you are there for your niece because you understand what she's going through! I wish I had support from my family!


Oh yes... addiction on all sides. I also have two sons... I understand the fear and quilt. My oldest did play for a while with pot and psycho active drugs... he chose to step back and now in 3rd yr of Med school. MY youngest...on his way to a rip roaring alcohol addiction. I began teach my sons about addiction at age 9 or so. They can not claim ignorance. My youngest got a DWI a few mo's back, I have told him not to call me if he ends up in jail numerous times.. to his surprise he stayed in jail over the weekend. Now can not drive and I did buy him monthly pass to city buses but wont give a ride. He needs to take some responsibly. Its hard though. I want to fix it all for him but it wont be to his benefit.

My niece is now staying at my house... the atmosphere in her house is a bit unstable and anger need to calm. I did try and talk to her last night... but as in any active addiction honesty has not been her virtue. She did tell me she copped a habit of percs. Was up to 90mgs a day... I may be wrong but I see that as a small habit. She said she has been on subutex for a few weeks now bouncing from 16-24mgs a day. I tried to do some teaching about sub but she is not hearing me. I am questioning this also because I see her nodding out while watching tv...and slurring her words. I do remember going thru this at the very low doses of sub but not at the higher doses.. so I just don't know what to believe. I did get a response from the nurse who gave me a iboga TX and she is willing to treat her... but, my niece has to do the research and contact her herself. I agree that me doing all the leg work will not help.. she has to want to clean up. For now, safer on sub then dope!!! (see, I can learn) My bro and I are planning an intervention soon but we want to have all ducks in a row first. What we want to do is have her go to this nurse and get the iboga TX then follow up with 30 day rehab. She is so manipulative at the moment.. boy, do I remember how I was... it breaks my heart. I am told that you cant go from sub to iboga... she is lucky to have a father that is a MD and can Rx short acting opiates till the sub leaves her body... but he wont do that until she signs a contract stating she will follow thru with the intervention. She is just way too young to consider BMT or MMT right now. We will see.

She wont tell me what sub doc she is getting her subutex from... so I doubt that she is getting her medication from a doctor but from the street. Here, sub is pretty cheap on the streets from what I hear.. like 3-5 bucks a 8mg pill...cheaper then seeing a MD and I don't know where she could of got the money to pay for first MD visit and the medication. I paid 450 for first visit then 150 a month there after. My ins. paid for the suboxone and only cost me 4 bucks for 30 days worth.. she doesn't have ins so how she is paying for sub at the pharm doesn't add up. I am so heart broken for her. My brother has never done dope so she didn't see it at home like my sons did. I wish I could do some education to my bro about suboxone... he is so against it. Against methadone too. He acts like she is just doing sub to remain high. No matter what I share on my experience he wont hear it. Keep saying that I have no ideal how I presented while on the medication... but, he is her dad, I am just an Uncle. I have to step back when it comes to his thought on Sub/meth. I did share with my niece how she could use sub to help her detox but she wont hear it. I wish it was not so available on the streets. I really was surprise to find out just how avail it is. I guess that is why they are coming up with the new delivery system of bupe. The one that puts a rod under the skin that last 6 mo. I think it will be on the market by next yr. I did buy the stock and hope to make alot of money on it. I got in at 2cents a share... now its about 1.20 a share but when it hits the market who knows how high it will go. I would of loved this when I was on sub.. so much easier and would not have had to worry about loosing my medicine and going into wd. I see this new delivery system a big plus for us addicts that chose BMT. I think the dose is 16mg daily but not sure. I don't see the need for such a high dose but at least our goverment is doing something to help us. The Gov and NIH put a lot of money in to ensure the 2nd Phase 111 trials went on without a hitch... I bet the goverment and the FDA will put this on fast track to be approved.

Later all... keep on keeping on. Recovery is so rewarding. Dope takes so much from us.
Capt.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:32 am 
Mih.... forgot to mention that iboga is nothing like LSD or shrooms.... Nothing. But I hear your fear. I was very fearful before my treatment. I also think that seeing maybe that your real fear is having to look at yourself is very perceptive. For me, that was the hardest part but again I found so necessary. After all, we addicts did not turn to drugs on consistent basis because it was all fun. We turn to drugs for the fact that it helped us not look at ourselves, see the truth without the cushioning of the drug to keep the pain to a minimal. Soon I turn to drugs for the energy it gave me to get thru the day, to help me sleep, to make me feel normal. I love that I now feel normal without any drug. Recovery is a process. It dosnt happen overnight. You are well on your way since your here. Pat yourself on the back for that. For seeing the damage that dope does to us. And by dope I do mean street dope. Not Meth/sub.

All I can say is use this time while suboxone protects you to grow up. Learn new ways to cope with how we approach life. I had to learn how to deal with every day things that the non addict does so well... I stop growing up the min I put dope in my mouth. When I was on sub I did learn different tecq to deal with every day things...I knew I was not "clean" but I also knew that my health was improving daily/monthly. When I got off of suboxone.. I did have to learn how to deal with the cravings and I did fail.... But.. if not for methadone and suboxne.. I would be dead today. It bought me time to began my process of recovery.

Bless


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:37 am 
Mih.... forgot to mention that iboga is nothing like LSD or shrooms.... Nothing. But I hear your fear. I was very fearful before my treatment. I also think that seeing maybe that your real fear is having to look at yourself is very perceptive. For me, that was the hardest part but again I found so necessary. After all, we addicts did not turn to drugs on consistent basis because it was all fun. We turn to drugs for the fact that it helped us not look at ourselves, see the truth without the cushioning of the drug to keep the pain to a minimal. Soon I turn to drugs for the energy it gave me to get thru the day, to help me sleep, to make me feel normal. I love that I now feel normal without any drug. Recovery is a process. It dosnt happen overnight. You are well on your way since your here. Pat yourself on the back for that. For seeing the damage that dope does to us. And by dope I do mean street dope. Not Meth/sub.

All I can say is use this time while suboxone protects you to grow up. Learn new ways to cope with how we approach life. I had to learn how to deal with every day things that the non addict does so well... I stop growing up the min I put dope in my mouth. When I was on sub I did learn different tecq to deal with every day things...I knew I was not "clean" but I also knew that my health was improving daily/monthly. When I got off of suboxone.. I did have to learn how to deal with the cravings and I did fail.... But.. if not for methadone and suboxne.. I would be dead today. It bought me time to began my process of recovery.

Bless


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:41 pm 
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wow, i can't believe subs are so cheap where you live! i'm in tn and i actually bought one from someone once while looking for well, anything that would make me feel better. The guy was in treatment and did it as a favor for me and told me all about it. I was not willing to try methadone at the time because I saw how zonked out it made my family members who were on it and I have 2 kids under 4 so I need my energy and need to be awake(which is why i took pills in the first place). So I tried the sub and liked it- did not get high, got a little sleepy just like I still do sometimes after taking for a year and I contacted a doctor a week later! Anyway, the guy I got the one from was not a great person and called me all the time trying to sell me his subs or et me to sell mine to him for $20!! Yes, they go for $20 here! I would never jeopardize my sub maintenance by selling to someone who is irresponsible, and the people who sell theirs must not be taking recovery very seriously!
Are you sure your niece is taking subs? I never remember nodding off from them. That's good she is staying with you, I'm sure she could learn a lot from you. But, i was stubborn just like her at the beginning of my addiction-and all throughout my high school and college days! Keep trying though, you seem like you are an excellent uncle to her and I'm sure she sees it too, even if she doesn't act like she does!
My brother is an alcoholic, or well on his way to being one, just like your son. My dad, being an addict, seems to feel like it's just natural that he will be a drinker because that's also how my dad was at that age. My dad is now on methadone for the rest of his life and has had his life ruined by drugs, I would think he would want more for his children! He never had the courage to talk to us about addiction, he just acted like he was just fine and we should mind our business. And I did ignore his addiction as best as I could up until I found out he shot my college fund up his arm...Our relationship is better now that he is maintaining his addiction through methadone, and I forgive him and understand this disease, but I will never forget...And maybe I am still angry...
Ok, I'm sorry to go off onto other subjects, I'm new to this forum and have alot to get out! Hope that thing with your niece look up and she will make the right decision!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:11 pm 
Yeah... she showed me the pills. She is taking them. This is what I mean that maybe its not the best thing for her. She does not have the high tolerance that requires such high doses of sub.... I surely didn't nod off while on high doses of suboxone.. but I had a very high tolerance. I remember once I gave a 8mg pill to a friend to prove it doesn't get you high.... In a hour he passed out ... HE was wasted.. SHOCKED ME. So I come to believe that sub is for those of us that abused drugs to the point that the dope doesn't work for us any longer. Then sub will fill those receptor and satisfy us so we don't continue our drug behavior.. it will stop the need for drug seeking. The guy called me the next day asking when it will be over for him. He couldn't work or function at all. He told me it took three days before he could return to work. LOL.. last time I ever gave it away.

I think my niece just wants to continue her drug use... right now.. sub is giving her what she is looking for. She wants to be stoned. If her addiction had progressed to where she needed meth or suboxone she would not be nodding off like she is.. She did agree to do a urine test for me.. this will be the tell all if she is taking suboxone or on street dope. I will pick one up today, I wont ask her to give me urine sample today.. I want it to be a surprise. But I will in the next few days.

I was surprised the sub is so cheap on the streets too. I did ask at the meeting if this is poss true and it was confirmed. I am told the junkies get their sub paid for by MA or MC....then sell them on the street to buy dope (H). I have to admit in the early sub treatment I did the same thing.. I sold my suboxone for 5 buck.. enought to buy a bag. I did this on/off for the first 6mo of my treatment. Heroin is also very cheap here. A hell of a lot cheaper then Oxycontin... That is why that H was my drug of choice... I like the oxy better because it lasted longer but the H was so much cheaper... even though I had to bang it up more often.. Live and learn....We are very smart.. addicts have to be smart to survive.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:02 pm 
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Suboxone is a good treatment option for young people. In fact they are better suited to long term treatment because they are so prone to relapse. Dr. J has written much about on this forum and on his blog, if I remember correctly.

Also, the following was said: "When I was on sub I did learn different tecq (sic) to deal with every day things...I knew I was not "clean"...". [Sigh]...I cannot count how many times we've had this conversation about being "clean" while on sub. Clean is not lying, cheating, stealing, etc and chasing a high. I know not everyone feels they are clean, but most do. Saying you "knew you weren't clean" almost sounds like a foregone conclusion. Please avoid that.

People who "nod off" from suboxone are generally opiate naive. A person with an addiction won't be nodding off. People who get it on the street often use it between getting high to avoid withdrawals. Just my take.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:39 pm 
Hat:

You took the whole post right out of my mind!! I take subutex and i am 100% clean and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. I believe at a young age the mind is still trying to develope so in my opinion, that is likely a more appropriate time if need be. Its much safer for a person to take bupe than be out using street drugs.


Capt:

You said you gave a 8mg pill to your friend to prove it doesnt get a person high. Forgive my memory but, i thought you said that suboxone was getting you high. Didnt you say something about having pinpoint pupils, feeling high and that if someone couldnt live without an opiate/high BMT was what they needed to do? I could be completely thinking of someone else but, it was in a post called, "Pain in er" i think. I sincerely apologize if i am wrong. I am not looking for any problems. Im just trying to clarify. But somehow that thread has suddenly disappeared. I remember commenting on it but i cant find it anywhere. Anyways, have a great day everyone!! ~PEACE~


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:51 pm 
[quote="Also, the following was said: "When I was on sub I did learn different tech (sic) to deal with every day things...I knew I was not "clean"...". [Sigh]...I cannot count how many times we've had this conversation about being "clean" while on sub. Clean is not lying, cheating, stealing, etc and chasing a high. I know not everyone feels they are clean, but most do. Saying you "knew you weren't clean" almost sounds like a foregone conclusion. Please avoid that.

People who "nod off" from suboxone are generally opiate naive. A person with an addiction won't be nodding off. People who get it on the street often use it between getting high to avoid withdrawals. Just my take.[/quote]

? Now I am confused Hat.... Now you want to dictate to me what I can post or not post? Your ideal of clean and my ideal of clean very well maybe different. Your ideal of a cute girl and my ideal I bet is different also. I am not going to argue how I feel/think or constitute what "I" consider clean for "me." I am not confronting anyone else on their thoughts or claims of being clean/not clean while on bmt/mmt... why should you dictate to me how I think or what I can post...If one considers themselves "clean" while on MMT or BMT.. thats find. I would not argue/debate that. For that person.. it is clean. It is just not how I perceived myself while I was on MMT and it continued when on BMT. I read the rules... and I am not debating this with anyone.. but does this give you the right to debate or ask me to "pls avoid it?" I see that as down right censorship. Please, I do appreciate the "Warning" when I would use opiate/dope interchangeable.. I got you and I agree. But.. now, to ask me to avoid saying I didn't consider myself clean while on mmt... is this a rule that I may have missed? Or... is individuallility not approve here?
So, pls clarify to me what I am allowed to post and what I am not allowed to post. I have no problem moving on to different sites... I just have a hard time finding one that dosnt bash MMT/BMT. Even Nabbit will be prejudice about MMT in thinking they are better then someone on mmt. So Clarify for me.

As far as my neice....you hit the nail on the head. I see her as opiate naive so I don't see her as a candidate for BMT/mmt. Thanks for making it clearer in my head. If she had a habbit that needed MMT/BMT.. I would be the first to step up and say to her father he is wrong. I would support her being on Suboxone (with MD rx'ing) and would see to it that she was able to pay for the MD visit. But seeing her nod off... shows me she maybe addicted to the percs but no need for mmt/bmt.


Capt


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:09 pm 
I know i can definitely understand your concern for your niece. All i was thinking of is, it just seems safer to take sub rather than street drugs. Im sure you would agree that at least with sub you dont have the worry of her overdosing and the possibility of death. Thats one of many other reason i agree that this treatment may very well be right for even younger people because they're minds havent fully developed an they make horrible choices therfor being a danger to themselves especially using street drugs.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:12 pm 
lifesaver wrote:
Hat:

You took the whole post right out of my mind!! I take subutex and i am 100% clean and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. I believe at a young age the mind is still trying to develope so in my opinion, that is likely a more appropriate time if need be. Its much safer for a person to take bupe than be out using street drugs.


Capt:

You said you gave a 8mg pill to your friend to prove it doesnt get a person high. Forgive my memory but, i thought you said that suboxone was getting you high. Didnt you say something about having pinpoint pupils, feeling high and that if someone couldnt live without an opiate/high BMT was what they needed to do? I could be completely thinking of someone else but, it was in a post called, "Pain in er" i think. I sincerely apologize if i am wrong. I am not looking for any problems. Im just trying to clarify. But somehow that thread has suddenly disappeared. I remember commenting on it but i cant find it anywhere. Anyways, have a great day everyone!! ~PEACE~


I didnt get high at all in the beginning... on higher doses. I did have a difficult time with switching from MMT to BMT. When I was weaning down to very low doses... that is when I got high. I thought it was very strange. Now I am talking about doses (if I can remember) at 1mg and .5. Yeah. I went thru this time period of being loaded. It lasted for hours and then would pass. If I can remember ... I also liked it but was so new to me since I was on bupe for over four yrs. Now I have to admit the first 6 mos I did dabble here and there... but once I got my feet planted in my recovery that ended and I give all the credit to suboxone... No way I could of stayed off dope for 4 yrs without it. NO way. I really didnt have to tools to do so. I needed to be on BMT to live/survive. I needed to be on bmt while I learned how to deal with the normal things in life. I started doping so young that I really did not learn how to deal... I always reached for dope/pot/what ever when things didnt go my way. I just never grew up.

Not sure what post your talking about but I did have a accident while on BMT and I think I was trying to reassure someone not to worry.... they can override the sub to give you proper pain relief. I dont remember making a statement about pin point eyes but... that was a issue for me. I had a job that had 0 tolerance for any opiates or alcohol in ones system while working. The pinned eyes for me was a dead give away.. maybe not for the layman but for this addict... sure was. I always notice someone with pinned eyes. iWhile at work this always made me nervous. I kept thinking.. sure it was all in my head that when someone was looking at me eye to eye they noticed my pinned eyes. LOL... true addict thinking for sure. I did loose that job since the company didnt agree with bmt. I tried to fight it..didnt work. I remember at the arbitration them saying... Next we should have Captains that are being maintained on methadone.. Well... in my eyes HELL YEAH. I had a script, I was not doing ilegal dope. WHY NOT? LOL.. but I lost that job. I realize that I was not going to be able to work in my field while on bmt or mmt. I just didnt work for a while. Now.. I am clean and have a job as capt of a tugboat. Pretty cool job. I get to travel to different countrys.. I would not have this job if it wasnt for my 4 yrs on bupe and learning how to approach life. I needed the mmt and BMT. I prefer BMT do to the ease of it. Less stigma and sorta removes me further from the dope life. MMT.. well, not all clinics care about your saftey and a lot goes on there.

Answer your question?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:24 pm 
lifesaver wrote:
I know i can definitely understand your concern for your niece. All i was thinking of is, it just seems safer to take sub rather than street drugs. Im sure you would agree that at least with sub you dont have the worry of her overdosing and the possibility of death. Thats one of many other reason i agree that this treatment may very well be right for even younger people because they're minds havent fully developed an they make horrible choices therfor being a danger to themselves especially using street drugs.


again... another great post. And again makes it that much clearer that my bro is right. She is young and if her brain is still in developing stage... I want it to develope without a strong opiate on board.. I am not saying that other young folk should not be on bmt. I dont know thier history. But if my neice is nodding out that proves she is still opiate naive. I rather her clean up now... forgo the bmt/mmt and learn to grow up. Her ass needs to be in a rehab and asap. But to force her there.. I think pointless. She has to want to get clean. I would rather her do a Iboga treatment.. hopefully get the insight that I did. Even if she gets no insight I know the iboga will take away the cravings for dope, just like Suboxone will. I just want her to have all the chances thats available not to repeat what my life was.

Why do I get the feeling no matter what I say here someone is gonna get offended? Is it my age? Is it that I chose Iboga? IS it that I am now not depending on anything to survive? Not sure why I am feeling like.. well, could all be in my head. I am the new comer here and I did start off wrong with my laziness and using the word dope. Got my warning and I thought I made it clear what I meant.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:18 pm 
Capt:

I am most definitely not offended. We only have a difference of opinion is all. The brain fully matures about the age of 25 so im told. I just think that until your niece is either truly ready, or her brain fully matures, BMT is the best option. Im sure you remember what it was like when you were her age. I can tell you when i was her age and im not far from it, their was no rehab or treatment plan that could or was gonna help me. I was too set in my ways. If she is able to maintain on subutex and isnt doing anything else, in my opinion i think its the safest option for her to remain taking the subutex until her brain is fully matured, although i most definitely think it should be under a doctors care. The front part of the brain which is responsible for impulse control and decision making is what takes the longest to develope. Around age 25 or so from what i've heard. I just cant tell you enough how many times i've overdosed, been hospitalized etc. Had i known of bupe sooner, i may have been able to get it together sooner than i did an avoided a lot of near death experiences. I would just hate for something to happen to your niece because yall were doing what yall thought was best for her, yet it wasnt an she was still using street drugs. I guess my ending words will be, if the bupe is keeping her from using drugs then i think she should stick with it until shes a bit older and able to see the consequences of her actions and actually make adult decisions. It sounds like shes just not making mature choices which goes back to what im trying to say. Anyways, im sure others will comment. Have a great day!! ~PEACE~


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:26 pm 
One more thing. If shes already been abusing opiates no matter the strength, the switch has already been turned on. Her brain has already been developing with opiates. If she is nodding off, she probably isnt taking it under a doctors care or esle she would adjusted to the medication which would take away any negative side effects.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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